What makes cues from purchased blanks sell for big $$$$
- Thread starter manwon
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I am withdrawing from the forum for a while because of this thread and a few others lately...I will be lurking for a while...just reading. I think the economy has got people going crazy already!
People just need to stop hating...find other ways to spend their time. Cuemakers that are haters because they make things that people do not want to buy need to just get back to the drawing board and make something people want to spend their hard earned money on; innovate or hang it up and sell your stock.
I am withdrawing from the forum for a while because of this thread and a few others lately...I will be lurking for a while...just reading. I think the economy has got people going crazy already!
People just need to stop hating...find other ways to spend their time. Cuemakers that are haters because they make things that people do not want to buy need to just get back to the drawing board and make something people want to spend their hard earned money on; innovate or hang it up and sell your stock.
manwon said:
manwon said:
I totally disagree with the above in Red, in most cases buyers need a great deal of education. I see it every day when they walk into my retail store, and ask questions. What I also see is that players that have a strong game also do not know in most cases anything more than how they want something to feel. Like I said this thread is not about you, however, if you think you are that important, and that everything is about you, that is only something you can correct. From personal experience, another person could never ruin a moment I have worked hard for, I have never been concerned about what others say, I am not thin skinned. So please do not try and make this about me or anyone except yourself if you really feel that way. When some one asks a question, I do not get the problem with just giving an answer, and this happens here all the time. I am certainly not trying to take away your thunder, you have built a great following that I am sure you deserve so be real like you say you are.
Take Care[/QUOTE]
I didn't think we were talking about somebody walking in off the street into a RETAIL STORE. I seriously doubt you have any Searing, Szam, TS, or ST sneakies in your retail store. But feel free to make your point however you see fit. If the person doesn't know the difference between Players & Mcdermott or meucci then I seriously doubt they will be buying a high end sneakie. I think you can save your time on "educating" them on your expert opinion.
paulybatz said:
That is certainly you choice, but are people crazy? I don't know for certain, who the real crazy people are.
There is a difference between hating and speaking the truth, and it has nothing to do with anyone person. You and many others have tried to assert that this thread is about a single person and it has never been. In addition it also has nothing to do with jealousy in any way shape or form. It is in my opinion and the opinion of many others that this is a common sense issue, if you can't see what my true intent is so be it.
Oh and by the way, the real problem maybe is with your thoughts on this subject, I can't say for sure, that is only a question that you can answer for yourself.
Have fun lurking, and a great day!!
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The one point that few seem to get is it take more than wood & metal to make a Cue that Plays Good, & Stay Straight.
It take time, skill, macjenery, and in some case people who are in the biz because they love what they do, and could be making BIG BUCK in the Private or Public Sector with a Job with Benefits, Retirements, etc.
It take time, skill, macjenery, and in some case people who are in the biz because they love what they do, and could be making BIG BUCK in the Private or Public Sector with a Job with Benefits, Retirements, etc.
jasonlaus said:[/B]
I didn't think we were talking about somebody walking in off the street into a RETAIL STORE. I seriously doubt you have any Searing, Szam, TS, or ST sneakies in your retail store. But feel free to make your point however you see fit. If the person doesn't know the difference between Players & Mcdermott or meucci then I seriously doubt they will be buying a high end sneakie. I think you can save your time on "educating" them on your expert opinion.
Thanks for your opinion and for posting to this thread, HOWEVER IT IS ALSO OBVIOUS YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO MY RETAIL STORE.For your information, I have cues for sale from $50 to $3000 on a daily basis, I don't However, have any Szam or Searings currently but you never know. I normally have around $30,000 to $40,000 in inventory, but that fluctuates because I have a large number of Custom and production line cues come through my hands.
I am certainly not an expert, I am a student and I do a great deal of research. I also am allowed to have an opinion on a subject, just like you and everyone else. I mean you can buy all the $1000 Sneakies on the market, like I tell people every day if they feel good to you, and you play well with them, thats all that matters.
Good luck, and stop by some time you may be surprised what is here for sale!!!!
manwon said:
Are you getting Rick with that Pool Room/Cue Repair/Building BIZ? How would that be working out if you had to Pay for Medical, Dental, Prescriptions, Optical if you were totally self employeed. With no USA Pension?:smile:
CocoboloCowboy said:
Cowboy, that has nothing to do it, we all makes choices at some point in our life. Some people have taken the course where they will work until death and never be able to retire. Others make different choices, and plan their entire life for retirement at an early age. Anyone can do that if they make the correct choices, just like almost anyone can join the Military to get the Benefits you have outlined above. It is all a personal choice Cowboy, you certainly can't always have your cake and also get to enjoy eating it. Everyone earns what they have in life do to their own decisions, good or bad, rich or poor. The secret to being a success at anything you do, is first enjoying it, second to never stop working toward bettering yourself, because you can always improve yourself, and third never be afraid to take calculated risks.
In addition to the above, and most importantly you must believe in yourself. To do this you must practice what you preach, and do the things you know are right. Regardless what others tell you or say about you, because people will try to keep you from succeeding, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY ARE YOUR FRIENDS. They do this in many cases because they do not want you to succeed and move ahead of them.
In the end confidantes, conviction, and inner strength are what allow some to make successful decisions and others to take advantage of situations that ultimately lead to failure in all they do.
Take Care Cowboy!!!! Thanks for your thoughts:smile:
manwon said:
Okay, first off my saying that I do not believe that ANYBODY is completely above the influence of a name ( as in branding) , I was making a general comment. This was meant to apply to everyone in every situation. I mean when shopping for cars, clothes, jewelry, etc. NOT JUST CUES. So no, I do not believe that you can HONESTLY say that marketing, or reputation of a product or name NEVER affects your buying decisions EVER. If you try to tell me otherwise, you will lose a bunch of credability with me. You are obviously very well informed about cues, so your knowledge of them comes from first hand experience and thorough knowledge of construction methods that your average cue buyer does not have. You are in a position to really know which names are worth every penny and then some, and some that may not represent the best value. Keeping in mind how much time it takes to acquire this much knowledge in a specific area means that you couldn't possibly have as deep of knowledge and experience in EVERY item that you buy. In these other cases you would have to rely on the reputaion as given to you by other with more knowledge than you. This is a smart approach when you lack first hand experience. In this respect, I will again say that you are not 100 percent above the influence of branding or reputation in at least some way. You should not fault others for being subject to it. The answer to ignorance is education. Simply share your knowledge and experience with others so they have a better chance of making an informed decision.
I have a very good knowledge of guitars. If you were considering buying your first guitar, you could ask me what to look for, and what is really worth the money or not. In absence of real first hand knowledge you could rely on my experience to help guide you in the right direction. The real problem comes when you go into the store to buy it and the guy there tells you the complete oppisite, now what? The point again is that it is still largely just a MATTER OF OPINION. Who is to say my opinion is any more or less valid than the other guys? This is really the main reason you should not pay top pf the line prices when you are unsure of what you are buying. It is not a question of quality but preference. You may find after a while that another product would suit YOUR needs better. Again this is not an issue of quality. It is like arguing red is better than blue!
I think it is odd that you say names should not have any value, and that it does not matter what you choose as long as it is right for you, while criticizing the pricing of cues. What if a $2000 sneaky pete is what I feel is the best cue for me? You say that you carry cues from $100- 3000, does a name matter at all? If I can go into your store and find a $2000 cue that is at all similar to a $300 cue, will you sell it to me for $300? I doubt it? Why don't you price all of your cues strictly by the construction methods used and the time spent making them? I find it VERY odd that someone is in the retail business and does not think that brand name has ANY value! If I want to order a cue that you do not have in stock, will you tell me to wait untill it arrives so you can evaluate it on its own individual merits and price it accordingly? Or will you RELY on the REPUTATION of the NAME of the cuemaker and say that you can confidently recomend this cue at your fair selling price?
On the same token, if I come into your store with a cue case and say I am looking to sell a cue, wouldn't the most logical FIRST question you will ask is "what kind of cue is it?". Not " how was the blank made?". You obviously buy many cues. Your whosale prices will vary greatly depending on the manufacturer. So YOU ARE paying for a name. You will pay more for a cue that says Schon, then for one that says lucasi. Right or wrong the market value is higher for schons.
Are you still going to stand by your statement that brand names have NO VALUE?
poolpro said:
I think it is odd that you say names should not have any value, and that it does not matter what you choose as long as it is right for you, while criticizing the pricing of cues. What if a $2000 sneaky pete is what I feel is the best cue for me? You say that you carry cues from $100- 3000, does a name matter at all? If I can go into your store and find a $2000 cue that is at all similar to a $300 cue, will you sell it to me for $300? I doubt it? Why don't you price all of your cues strictly by the construction methods used and the time spent making them? I find it VERY odd that someone is in the retail business and does not think that brand name has ANY value! If I want to order a cue that you do not have in stock, will you tell me to wait untill it arrives so you can evaluate it on its own individual merits and price it accordingly? Or will you RELY on the REPUTATION of the NAME of the cuemaker and say that you can confidently recomend this cue at your fair selling price?
First, I do not believe that names mean anything when buying pool cues. In my opinion a cue must be right for each person, and no one can say what is good or bad for you or me. When I sell cues I give my buyers all the information they need to make an informed purchase. In addition I answer any question they have or find the answer for them, as part of the deal. I also let each person test all cues before purchase and this is where what I said about a cue being right for each person comes into play. I really do not care who the cue maker is or whether a cue is production or custom NO Cue Maker CAN BUILD CUES THAT ALL HIT EXACTLY THE SAME. In additional to that each person has their preference to hit, balance, weight, and all other things that attract people to certain cues.
I said to me name doesn't matter, in fact it has no influence in what I like in a cue. For many however, name is all they have to go by, and the problem with that is what I have said in the above paragraph. Now like you said above Guitars are what you have the most knowledge about. On that same note should a Chinese mass produced model of an American made Guitar sell for the same price of an Original completely crafted by a Luthier? Should a Guitar assembled form parts that are purchased be equally expensive? Now buying a Guitar assembled from premade parts by a quality maker may be OK, I do not know. But making a blank that cues are produced from will have a lasting effect on the cue that can not be changed very much, especially with Full Spliced Blanks. They can be cored, they can be cosmetically perfected (Making the points Even), and they can have the balance adjusted according to the Cue Makers taste. But, most of these are things that are expected even on a lower end cue, and they are not secret or special techniques that only certain people can do. So at least with cue blanks, blanks are just blanks, some are good and some are not. However, by using them a cue maker can reduce the costs associated with building a cue, and now the real question is, should they cost the same as a cue built entirely by the cue maker, I think not. However, there are certainly exceptions and those would be the Masters that we have in this country and some abroad. People have mentioned Gina, Szamboti, Searing, Hailey, Scruggs and some others who have been involved with cue making for more than 30 years, and that is very hard to argue with. But, everyone can not and will not make it to the above level in their individual life time, do to thier individual skills. This must be taken into account, and only this should increase the value of a simple Sneaky. But the truth is many buyers do not have the information they need to understand this so they base their opinion solely on marketing and hear say which in most cases is greatly nothing but hype, or personal opinion.
When a customer comes in to my store and wants something ordered that is not in stock or something special they must pay in advance. In this case their payment is not refundable because they decide they do not like the cue when it arrives, unless I can return it to the manufacturer. In most cases if the cue was customized for the customer, such as, Shaft diameter, butt diameter, or even a non-standard wrap they can not be returned. They are told this up front and they must sign an agreement to this end. I have learned to protect myself, because people change their minds, because the cue is not exactly what they expected because of what they were told, or what they beleived to be a fact. This is why I try to have customers buy cues currently in stock, and not order cues, but I give them this information and it is their choice.
I let the cue maker make all decisions on the price of their items. I buy wholesale and sell retail, with a provided margin from my wholesale supplier. I will not do business with production cue manufacturers that do not wholesale at 50% of retail, and this gives me a maximum 50% profit margin which is never met. Normally, I price these cues at a 20% discount from the get go, which means I settle for a 30% take before the government gets their 30% of that. Now the margin on Custom cues is very much more from maker to maker, and yes names play a part in the cues retail cost and in the wholesale price I pay. But none of this is the real point, which I have been trying to explain. I have talked with many of top end cue makers, and most have a simple goal, which is to make sure their cues only increase in value and that their customers always get more than they paid for, Never less.
On the same token, if I come into your store with a cue case and say I am looking to sell a cue, wouldn't the most logical FIRST question you will ask is "what kind of cue is it?". Not " how was the blank made?". You obviously buy many cues. Your whosale prices will vary greatly depending on the manufacturer. So YOU ARE paying for a name. You will pay more for a cue that says Schon, then for one that says lucasi. Right or wrong the market value is higher for schons.
First let me say this, if some one walks into my store to sell me a cue and I do not know them or personally know who referred them they will leave with that cue. I do not buy cues that could be stolen, to me it is not worth the trouble and my reputation is far more valuable than a quick profit. Next, if I know the cue is stolen, it will not leave my possession until the rightful owner comes for it, and the person who brought in will get nothing for it except an escort to the door. As for the blank, it is my job to know what a cues value is and how it was made. In most cases I can do this because I handle cues every day, however, when my experience will not give me the answers I need I have those who I can trust to help me out.
Are you still going to stand by your statement that brand names have NO VALUE
Let me say this, every cue maker makes good and not so good cues. If you go off brand alone with no other knowledge and with without hands on experience of the cue you are looking at in a case or online, brand certainly means nothing. Because until you get it in your hands, you will not know if it is just right for you, or if you think it is turd. So, yes in this respect Brand names mean nothing!!
I hope I answered most of your questions, if not outline what I have missed.
Thanks Craig!!!!!!
manwon said:
Bottom line is when those "choices" don't pay the bill, it is time for another choice, no matter how much you lov what you are doing.