What makes the Filipinos SO STRONG!

[bandido]

americans are great players, just that filipinos needed to the win more than them at times.

pool is much bigger in philipines than in america, or anywhere else.

you guys forgot about the taiwanese pool is big over there, with lots of coverage on television. They even show the us open, ipt events

if theres a world pool league between these three nations, lets say 3 americans 3 taiwanese and 3 filipinos, there a chance that a taiwanese will win it, every aspect of their game is very strong

Even the Taiwanese hone their games here. There a 3 here right now and one of them is the World Junior Champion Ko Pin Yi. All I can say is that they're paying their dues and not against the Pinoy Top Guns.

 

[ShootingArts]

tables

John,

All of the equipment at a big event might be "perfect" but it isn't identical. I don't know that the tables at big events are perfectly set up and stay perfect either. I have noticed some undeniable roll offs with shots going most of the length of a table near a rail. This could be from several causes so I am not faulting the supplier or the person setting it up. They might or might not be at fault.

I can play on exactly one dozen nine foot Diamonds all purchased at the same time. One has tighter pockets so we will throw it out of the mix so now we have eleven "identical" very well maintained fairly new tables. However no two of those tables play exactly the same. Tiny differences in the set-up, slightly different temperatures in different areas of the room, some with more exposure to outside humidity, near endless variables insure that no two play the same. As close as some are to the same, the differences might not be but one or two shots going or not going in a match if a player doesn't adjust, but we both know that can be huge. Some of the tables are hugely different than others. I know how, why, and when they are different but I am not talking! Failure to understand that these tables aren't all the same and adjust to the individual table can and does cost people matches in tournament play.

Like you I would like to see the US players and the Filipinos tangle in some action matches at the DCC. If it is an all around it does seem only fair that one of the games be fifteen ball rotation or a game of the Filipinos' choice.

Hu

So if Efren came up to you at DCC and said he'd play a set of ten ball, one pocket, and 14.1 for a $1000 a set (or more) then you would play him even with no spot? Or Orcullo or Bustamante? No haggling, woofing, negotiating? Just get up and play?

That would be cool to see.

This year at DCC I'd love to hear of the Americans getting in the box - even if it's just for $500 a set or something, against the Filipinos or Taiwanese. I know how strong the Filipino players are, we all do. But I want to see the Americans asserting themselves because I KNOW that you all can flat play.

To Shooting Arts: I know that the players in the PI have to fade different tables but so do people in the USA. My thinking though runs in the opposite direction. IF the players in the USA are treated to perfect equipment then they should be perfectly adjusted to it. So IF a foreign player can instantly adjust to table conditions then there is no advantage for either player as both of them are prefectly comfortable with the table.

I think it comes down to the American players not being able to fade the pressure and get out when they should. It's like me playing a "name" player and making critical mistakes. If I don't know who that player is then I play much better.

HOWEVER - I am willing to accept that the Pinoy players are really that much better because of the reasons mentioned, technically because of the games they play and conditions they play under, and mentally because of the economic climate and constant challenge to maintain a high status.

Anyway, I hope to hear of some good matchups this year from Derby! Good luck to everyone going and playing. I hope everyone comes out winner in some way or another.

 

[PinoyRomeo]

I mean I am probably just being a sucker with this statement but if I had the dough then I'd take over the DCC action room and install a top American player on each table and invite the players from the rest of the world to step up. $1000 a set for as much as they can win. I'd be willing to bet that the final score of America vs. the World would be closer than many think it might.

Then again I have been known to dive into the world of fantasy pool once in while.

America would also have the advantage of not having to deal with jet lag. They also would be in a comfort zone of sorts. They would be in their home country with things they are use to(e.g. food, lodging, climate, etc..) I still believe the world would win by miles though. No offense to any of the pro's out there. I just believe the world gives the USA the last 2 and the breaks. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

 

[MJR77]

I just think natural ability mixed with practice, mental game, drive, hunger and all that other good stuff.... not to mention a whole bunch of world champions they can play whenever

 

[daphish1]

If you put all the Americans in the same room for a month they would not match up with each other anyhow, they would all sit there like a bunch of nits hoping some soft action would come through the door that they could chop up 50 ways. That is why the Americans are generally underdogs. They use to have the hear to actually match up and put it all on the line, not only their money but their pride at stake. Now they are scared to lose both so they don't play.

The American pro's end up in alot of places for a week at a time. Look at the DCC or the week of the BCA event in Las Vegas, the American pro's are there and they all hang out in their rooms ducking action while people like Alex are either on the pool table playing for cash or on the poker table loosing the cash he just won. The guy has more heart in his pinky finger then most of the Americans have in their whole body.

The top pros, like a Johnny Archer seem to act as if they are above gambling now, as if as a true pro they should just get paid for showing up. The thing that is laughable is that these guys are on a downhill slide and no longer dominate the game like they once did because they lost the edge that gambling gives you and the people they compete against keep that edge shard as a razor with their matching up and constant pressure play.

I think at a lot of the tournaments where most pros might all meet up, they aren't just matching up for 100 a game (something cheap), it's usually a couple dimes if it happens. That's the point if all the US players were constantly playing other top rated players (for cheap stakes), they'd be much stronger. Also, the American players don't all primarily live in the same city, so matching up is not a regular occurance. That's the difference in the Phillipines, the top calliper players aren't always matching up for high stakes, but they are always matching up. I'm assuming that to be a sucessful pool player (make a living playing pool) in the US is a lot different then in the Phillipines.

John Schmidtt stated he'd play anyone from the Phillipines in 14.1 and i thought I've read here that Corey Deuel would play anyone rotation (maybe my memory is hazed), that seems pretty strong for the American players. SVB has been known to matchup even against Philipinos as well. Also, in 1 pocket i would think that Owen or Frost would match up with just about anyone.

 

[JB Cases]

America would also have the advantage of not having to deal with jet lag. They also would be in a comfort zone of sorts. They would be in their home country with things they are use to(e.g. food, lodging, climate, etc..) I still believe the world would win by miles though. No offense to any of the pro's out there. I just believe the world gives the USA the last 2 and the breaks. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I am sure that there are plenty around who would give you action if you want to bet on the world giving up the last two and the breaks.

 

[bandido]

johnny archer and earl strickland,varner sigel etc.
archer alone has won more tourneys than the whole pinoy crew combined.

That's not exactly true John. There in the USA yes but to include the world stage? Filipinos are the poolplayers that travel the most.

i dont know where its written in stone that he would lose to them.

for the record we play different games one hole ,14.1 in usa.

if any of the pinoys would like to play onehole,14.1 and 10ball im sure we could have our top 20 play there top 20 and all around.

thats if i can get our top 20 to quit playing golf, poker ,side jobs ,lessons ,dirt biking etc.,

just to be more clear iull play any asian 14.1 i might not win but it will be a tough game, for them and me .

also if the top say 30 pinoys want to play 14.1,10ball,and one hole which are all poolgames then ill play each one of them for a decent amount.

that way we can find out whos the better poolplayer since those are all poolgames.

Play the top 5 in those disciplines and you've got yourself a game. The other 15 may be iffy since 14.1 and one-hole are hardly played here. Maybe add rotation and 8-Ball (or balut eating ) to the 3 you mentioned then you'll get something going with the other 15.

You should come and stay here a while John, players from all conners of the world come and end up improving. Right now, Gerry "Ghost" Watson plays almost everyday for 8k Pesos a set(less than US$200). His only requirement is that the opponent is as old or close to his age. He's having fun.

 

[PinoyRomeo]

So if Efren came up to you at DCC and said he'd play a set of ten ball, one pocket, and 14.1 for a $1000 a set (or more) then you would play him even with no spot? Or Orcullo or Bustamante? No haggling, woofing, negotiating? Just get up and play?

That would be cool to see.

I agree, that would be something else. I'd like to see Alex play John. What I don't understand is why some Americans boast so much about being the best 1 holers in the world. That's because Americans are almost the only 1 holers in the world. LOL. 14.1 and 10 ball I understand. Other than Efren, Django, Alex, and Andam the other top pinoy players probably don't even know half the rules to one pocket. I definitely believe they would do well, however. Look at Efren's and Django's first 14.1 tournament results, they definitely didn't know the rules and still did exceptional. John, didn't Andam just beat you not too long ago here in Virginia? Andam is like third tier in the PI, now. LOL. Just my two cents.

 

[PinoyRomeo]

I am sure that there are plenty around who would give you action if you want to bet on the world giving up the last two and the breaks.

I'm sure they would. I think I meant that figuratively more than anything. But, hey I like to gamble. That's what gambling is about, right? Taking risk.

 

[JB Cases]

If you put all the Americans in the same room for a month they would not match up with each other anyhow, they would all sit there like a bunch of nits hoping some soft action would come through the door that they could chop up 50 ways. That is why the Americans are generally underdogs. They use to have the hear to actually match up and put it all on the line, not only their money but their pride at stake. Now they are scared to lose both so they don't play.

The American pro's end up in alot of places for a week at a time. Look at the DCC or the week of the BCA event in Las Vegas, the American pro's are there and they all hang out in their rooms ducking action while people like Alex are either on the pool table playing for cash or on the poker table loosing the cash he just won. The guy has more heart in his pinky finger then most of the Americans have in their whole body.

The top pros, like a Johnny Archer seem to act as if they are above gambling now, as if as a true pro they should just get paid for showing up. The thing that is laughable is that these guys are on a downhill slide and no longer dominate the game like they once did because they lost the edge that gambling gives you and the people they compete against keep that edge shard as a razor with their matching up and constant pressure play.

That's pretty cynical. Didn't Johnny just match up with Larry Nevel a while back.

I think the pros would play each other for cheap practice sets. I don't know how many pros you know personally Celtic but I kind take offense to your statement on behalf of the ones I know.

At DCC you can in fact see pros matching up all the time. I vividly remember watching Corey Duel and Scott Frost matched up in one hole for $200 a game.

Most of these guys are buddies and have a mutual respect for each other's games. They are not nits.

And yeah, perhaps they should get paid to show up in certain situations. These are people who have put as much into being the best in their field as anyone else has in theirs. In a lot of other endeavors the "professional" does get paid just to "show up". Now we all know pool is different and yada yada but do you really have to add insult to injury here and dog the people who do live on the edge financially to entertain you?

My intention for this thread is NOT to dog the US pro players but instead to inspire them to get in the box a little more than they have been.

And I hope someone sends some sunshine your way.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

So if Efren came up to you at DCC and said he'd play a set of ten ball, one pocket, and 14.1 for a $1000 a set (or more) then you would play him even with no spot? Or Orcullo or Bustamante? No haggling, woofing, negotiating? Just get up and play?

That would be cool to see.

This year at DCC I'd love to hear of the Americans getting in the box - even if it's just for $500 a set or something, against the Filipinos or Taiwanese. I know how strong the Filipino players are, we all do. But I want to see the Americans asserting themselves because I KNOW that you all can flat play.

To Shooting Arts: I know that the players in the PI have to fade different tables but so do people in the USA. My thinking though runs in the opposite direction. IF the players in the USA are treated to perfect equipment then hey should be perfectly adjusted to it. So IF a foreign player can instantly adjust to table conditions then there is no advantage for either player as both of them are prefectly comfortable with the table.

I think it comes down to the American players not being able to fade the pressure and get out when they should. It's like me playing a "name" player and making critical mistakes. If I don't know who that player is then I play much better.

HOWEVER - I am willing to accept that the Pinoy players are really that much better because of the reasons mentioned, technically because of the games they play and conditions they play under, and mentally because of the economic climate and constant challenge to maintain a high status.

Anyway, I hope to hear of some good matchups this year from Derby! Good luck to everyone going and playing. I hope everyone comes out winner in some way or another.

i was unclear. i mean if all 30 top asians want to play all around ill play. not just efren or alex all of them.
the 3 games im talking about are stardard well recognized games.
maybe im the favorite at one of the 3 and so are they.

they are all three poolgames.

if they dont know how to play 14.1 or 1hole thats not my problem . i mean people not you jb are talking about how ridiculously better than guys like me they are well then lets play.

by the way i play a third of the amount of pool they do ,hardly ever play a money game and never practice anymore.

it should be easy money for them.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

I agree, that would be something else. I'd like to see Alex play John. What I don't understand is why some Americans boast so much about being the best 1 holers in the world. That's because Americans are almost the only 1 holers in the world. LOL. 14.1 and 10 ball I understand. Other than Efren, Django, Alex, and Andam the other top pinoy players probably don't even know half the rules to one pocket. I definitely believe they would do well, however. Look at Efren's and Django's first 14.1 tournament results, they definitely didn't know the rules and still did exceptional. John, didn't Andam just beat you not too long ago here in Virginia? Andam is like third tier in the PI, now. LOL. Just my two cents.

your right i lost one set.

i played bad and got every bad roll.

i could never win a set against him ever.

thank you for letting me see how crazy i was for daring to play him.

take care.

p.s. he just won the one hole tourney in va. if he would like to play say 10 ahead onehole for 10 dimes even feel free to stake him l. just my 2 cents lol

 

[inside_english]

P.S. Anybody that thinks its because Americans dont have heart or desire or any of that other B.S..Need to pack their s**t and get the h*ll out of my USA.. Have those Phillippinos put together their best football players and we'll have um play the BOYS from Texas or Oklahoma, then we'll see whos heart is in question.
*************************************

You need to calm down.

 

[Fatboy]

Ok,

I understand that they match up a lot for relatively small money and play hard for it to establish the pecking order.

BUT

We have jam up run out players who can and do string racks and can play just about perfect for hours on end.

So my question is this:

Why can our players (US Players) NOT beat the Filipinos when they match up?

Why wouldn't there be a line of US Players at DCC chomping at the bit to get matched up with the Filipino players?

I know it's tough action but surely they can play $500 sets or something? Why wouldn't they be welcoming the opportunity to spar with the Filipinos in the same way that the Filipinos spar with each other?

Why are US Players scared to match up with Filipinos? (and yes I know that any of them will match up when they are backed).

Are there any American players who will play EVEN against any of the Filipinos (besides Shane)?

I would hate to see the DCC come and go with most of the Filipino contingent OUT of action because everyone is afraid to play.

The lack of Govt regulators is why they play better, plain and simple. There is so much bullshit and red tape in America that it has everyone stressed out and stress and good pool dont come together. Simple stress free life yields great play, look at kids they play strong cause they have a support structure,

 

[devindra]

P.S. Anybody that thinks its because Americans dont have heart or desire or any of that other B.S..Need to pack their s**t and get the h*ll out of my USA.. Have those Phillippinos put together their best football players and we'll have um play the BOYS from Texas or Oklahoma, then we'll see whos heart is in question.
*************************************

You need to calm down.

In the Philippines pool is much more popular than in the US. If more people would play in the US then there would be more great players.

As for now the Filipinos are dominating, not the americans. The US cannot always dominate every sport.

 

[StormHotRod300]

I look at it this way, Here in the USA it seems like everyone wants weight. I havent played pool in almost a year. Yet I could probably goto my old pool hall, and 75% of the guys there will want the wild 7 or 8, or more. And those lifeless MotherFukkers do nothing but play pool. The other guys who are better than me will give me weight, but only enough to make it a 90% lock, cuz they know I can win with the weight they are giving.

now Multiply that by every pool hall in the USA.

Now I imagine over in the Phillipines the normal players over there, are probably better than good players because! the pinoys are always playing the top tier players so they get noticed.

Most people in the USA are scared to play the top tier players unless they have so much weight its a lock.

I've seen one of my friends who was a AA player and another A/A- player wanted to gamble but would only play if he was getting the break and the wild 8.....

As others have said, I think the drive and hunger to make money so they can eat or live a better life is what makes alot of those guys just that much better.

As for why the guys at the DDC dont want to gamble with the Pinoy's I think its because there is so many of them and nobody knows who they are, so people dont want to gamble with them because their speed is unknown, so the americans dont know where to start for weight.

Imagine if your a good AA player or roadplayer and you goto a poolhall, and you annouce that you want to play some 500$ sets and your giving the 8ball to anyone and you end up with 20-30guys all wanting a piece of you.

Now how would you feel? I know myself I'd feel like a d-bag for offering too much weight if I had 20 or more guys lined up to take me on lol. Plus I'd also be doing one of those WTF did i get myself into situations.

Thats how i think most americans feel when going to the DDC and not wanting to play any Pinoy's.

 

[ShootingArts]

I ain't skeered!

I'll play any of them heads up. That is I'll play any of them as long as they are under ten and female.

Hu

I look at it this way, Here in the USA it seems like everyone wants weight. I havent played pool in almost a year. Yet I could probably goto my old pool hall, and 75% of the guys there will want the wild 7 or 8, or more. And those lifeless MotherFukkers do nothing but play pool. The other guys who are better than me will give me weight, but only enough to make it a 90% lock, cuz they know I can win with the weight they are giving.

now Multiply that by every pool hall in the USA.

Now I imagine over in the Phillipines the normal players over there, are probably better than good players because! the pinoys are always playing the top tier players so they get noticed.

Most people in the USA are scared to play the top tier players unless they have so much weight its a lock.

I've seen one of my friends who was a AA player and another A/A- player wanted to gamble but would only play if he was getting the break and the wild 8.....

As others have said, I think the drive and hunger to make money so they can eat or live a better life is what makes alot of those guys just that much better.

As for why the guys at the DDC dont want to gamble with the Pinoy's I think its because there is so many of them and nobody knows who they are, so people dont want to gamble with them because their speed is unknown, so the americans dont know where to start for weight.

Imagine if your a good AA player or roadplayer and you goto a poolhall, and you annouce that you want to play some 500$ sets and your giving the 8ball to anyone and you end up with 20-30guys all wanting a piece of you.

Now how would you feel? I know myself I'd feel like a d-bag for offering too much weight if I had 20 or more guys lined up to take me on lol. Plus I'd also be doing one of those WTF did i get myself into situations.

Thats how i think most americans feel when going to the DDC and not wanting to play any Pinoy's.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Rotation on 10fters, throw in some three cushion billiards and all the time in the world to play because there is no money to do anything eles.

P.S. Anybody that thinks its because Americans dont have heart or desire or any of that other B.S..Need to pack their s**t and get the h*ll out of my USA.. Have those Phillippinos put together their best football players and we'll have um play the BOYS from Texas or Oklahoma, then we'll see whos heart is in question.

Pool is dead in the USA because there is so many cool things to do. Im sure there is a bunch of top notch mountain bikers, snow boarders, golfers, surfers, hikers, rock climbers, river and lake fisherman, ect. ect. ect. in the Philippine's, you just dont hear about them

I'll take your bet on that. FIFA rules in effect . . .

 

[bandido]

Andam is like third tier in the PI, now. LOL. Just my two cents.

Andam hit LOW third tier before he left for the US. The up and coming kids just weren't scared of him anymore. But, following what has been going on in tournaments there it sure looks like Andam got his hunger back and is starting to enjoy the game again.

The whole pool scenario here in the Philippines has evolved. Gone are the days when the lower players are awestruck just watching the top tier. So many players are moving up and tangling with the big guys that if you go by Win-Loss records the heirarchy will be so different than what most think.

It is not like before when playing knowledge was not freely shared for players to have that slight advantage. This last year, BMPAP first year, our progress in developing players have been truly amazing. The top keeps getting pushed to give all they've got because these young guys keep on getting ever so close. No respect at all anymore, no fear. We can have a Filipino Invasion all over again. All unknowns and they'd make waves there in the USA. For a sneak peek, ask Mika about Jordan.

Too, I'm starting to think that the "financially poor" angle is a myth. There is a doctor here, Internal Medicine, who just got the breaks from Alex and Alex conceded at 6-0 in a short race to 9. Amazing display of run-out and defensive game! This doctor just loves playing the game. We'd sit in my shop for hours and talk pool. Cue performance, shot execution, conditioning, mental game, breaking down shot mechanics, matches we both watched, history, instructional books, etc. So really, all the reasons mentioned in this thread helped the progress and evolution but the bottom line is just the "love of playing the game".

 

[JohnPT]

Bandido, I always enjoy you sharing stories on the Philippine pool scene. I am most intrigued about hearing about the younger generation of Filipino pool players. How about you showcase one of those kids here in this thread. Maybe share some stories on how they match, how he started (i'm assuming it's a boy) and their best or latest win. Thanks.