What skills are needed to be a 8 ball barbox monster

[Newsheriffintwn]

Ive been playing primarily BB for several years. I was a BT ( Big Table) player for probably 20 years. I always hated the BB and seemed like I never played as well on the BB compared to how well I could on a BT.

When I switched over to the BB the one thing I realized right off is the difference in position play. The upper echelon players on the BB play position in the simplest way possible. Never move the cue-ball more than you need to. I always avoid taking snooker routes in getting position on my next shot when I can. Seems to me at the higher levels most runs are stopped by position errors, rather than missed shots on a BB.

Sounds simple and basic, but being aware of and playing patterns where you can run out and always leave the cue ball where you can at least see your next ball so you have a chance to win. Its become a integral part of how I see patterns and the way I play position. Its brought my game up a lot, a whole lot.

Another thing that is something that will reap you great rewards is learning to break without scratching. Breaking spreading the balls and scratching against good players is the kiss of death. There's a place by me that opens the tables one day a week ( NO Quarters). It is something you seldom see on a BB, practicing your break over and over. It would be wise to see if there's a place around you that has free pool and spend a few hours really dialing in your break.

Oh and one last thing that kinda goes in the strategy category. When playing and my opponent misses and partially runs out. I will play a pattern that never leaves them easy or make-able shots on their last balls. I'll start my run with a hard shot (if I need to) knowing even if I don't make it I'm gonna leave them where they cant get out easily or at all. This works probably 75% of the time, sometimes the way their balls lay you aren't afforded the luxury of a missed shot. Again this sounds very basic, and it is but it will win you a few more games if incorporated into your play.

 

[Runnintable]

If you really want to learn how to play 8 ball well, go order the 8 Ball Bible RIGHT NOW. This is the best book ever on shootding 8 ball on a bar box. The concepts even apply to playing on a big table.

IMHO the pros take a long time looking at the layout of the table at first. Then, once they have decided what to do, they shoot the balls all in, or figure out a way to play some lockup safes that also give them an advantage.

As good as that book is, it does spend a lot of time on the different aspects of the barbox cue ball. This might not be as prevalent in todays age.
The book addresses strategy incorporating the larger heavier magnetic cue ball.
Today, the barbox championships in Reno, NV use Diamond tables. The cue ball is not the factor it used to be.

 

[Slasher]

I was recently watching these Valley Forge matches on youtube. Here's one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK1PKFiyer4

These are "barbox monsters" playing a not-so-perfect set with rather complex lay-outs. What I especially like about these videos is the commentary. JR Calvert is spot-on most of the time. Although there were a few scenarios where players were allowed to breeze through the rack, most of the time there was a lot of traffic to get through and their success-rate is still kind of amazing.

Just a warning though, if at any time you feel comforted by watching these guys fail to run-out, bear in mind that in order to beat either of them, perfection is usually required. I've seen both of these guys play near-perfect for very long stretches.

Thanks for the link.
nevermind, goofy rules

 

[Lock N Load]

Knowing how to break out clusters is important.

I would not classify 8 ball liability as number 1, because usually one or more of your group balls is usually near the 8. Also, if you have good cue ball control, you can usually get on the 8.

One of my pet peeves is that I do not shoot what I call 'no future' shots, in other words what good does it do you to make a shot, and not have any shot after that, plus even if you attempt a shot on the ball after, it will end up selling out. I, will instead, opt for a safety, a tie up, or a leave that will put the table back to my advantage, and especially when their are only 2 balls of your group left. Knowing your opponent skill level helps in these situations.

1) Evaluating the layout after the break.
2) Breaking good. Although this is important, I have found in some instances, I prefer to have the balls tied up a little, even if playing someone on my skill level or even better, because I have experience over them, usually, in breaking up clusters, to the point that I think I must have a more complex mind than they do.
3) Knowing how to shoot the shot to break up a cluster.
4) Knowing when to shoot a ball or play a safety.
5) Kicking. If you can not kick and hit a ball with 4 rails, you need to practice some more.
6) Banking. I have played so many players that were good open shooters, but couldn't bank worth a shit. Love those guys, I will leave them a hard bank everytime. And even if they can bank a little, they usually are not good on bank shots of more than 1 rail. They usually don't kick very well either. I can not stress enough how important banking skills are in Pool. When I practice, 90% of my practice is devoted to banking. You have to stay 'tuned up' in your banking skills.

I must admit that I have a little sadistic streak, because I will evaluate a player, spot his weaknesses, and play to his weaknesses in the game. I like to show my opponents what they need to practice on.

Oh, and one other thing, you ever play guys that always take solids after the break, no matter the table layout... I love those guys too.

What he just said!
How goes it Snapshot? Take care.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[Steve Dickey]

Snapshot,
When Scott mentioned 8 ball liability I think he was referring not to the concept of a key ball or whether you could get on the 8, but rather does the 8 have a pocket once you remove your balls. Steve

 

[OneIron]

Learning how the the table plays has to rank pretty high. Typical bar box has mismatched balls, dead rails, and heavy cue ball. I'm always amazed how quickly road players adjust to these inconsistencies.

My game is probably twice as good on a Diamond ProAm 7' table than it is on a typical Valley. It's always been difficult for me to make the necessary adjustments.

Logically I guess, the answer is to avoid shots that require precision draw and try to play simple position with lots of stop shots. Also, hit the cue ball firmer to avoid the roll off of non level tables.

 

[rjb1168]

A good break and absolute cue ball control.

 

[8onthebreak]

Too much stuff to list...

Hi guys and gals I only play on the barbox but havent played in leagues for about ten years but would consider myself a C+ B- 8 ball player . When I played I did the" team " first as in not always playing to my potential, I was considered the strongest 6 "APA" in my area not thats to brag about.I've recently started playing again and started trying to think of the skills neede to be a barbox specialist.PLease dont coment if you are gonna beatup the barbox.My list might seem alittle strange on a couple of the skills I've been working on but they seem important to me because of the size of the barbox "7 footer" Heres my list please add or critiqe.1 "cue ball control" small area ball spead and control important.2" break control with power" I can 2nd ball break also but my spread is alot better with power control break.3 "Defense" congested and you will need to make 2 way shots,safety break shots. 4 kicks,when you are left safe.5 cluster work,barbox has alot of clusters.6 carom and combos, I think these 2 are way under used in the games I see.7 banks.......ok heres it is short version 1 cue bal control..2Break control...3Defense...4kicks...5cluster work...6carom and combos...7 banks. please add or tell me your opinions. thank you.:smile:

Cue control, planning, patience, shot selection, defense, strategy, eight ball set up, ...
...here's my advice on what NOT to do...

Don't break up clusters as a general rule...instead, gently and accurately thread the cue ball into the spot where you can make one of your balls in from that cluster, while gently moving the other tied up ball into the clear.

Don't take shots which have less than 80% probability. Instead, look for safety.

Don't cross your leave lines, find a way to run your cue ball towards your next shot or away from it, so speed is taken out of the equation.

Planning...choose the ball order carefully, this is where most mistakes are made...almost any caliber player could run out most tables if they saw the easy patterns...stop-shot patterns are ideal. Avoid draw...it's unpredictable...always try to use top when possible.

Move the cue ball as little as possible, settle for short-side leaves, and long table shots...stay in the bigger end of the funnel, ensuring that u get the leave...cuz any shot is Fairly easily made on a barbox.

Shoot firm...table roll eats a lot of players up. Find a good speed that u can use 80% of the time.

Leave balls on the table until you are ready to run out. These easy balls are soldiers on the field ...fighting for you. Worry about the difficult balls always and leave these ducks alone. When you get in trouble with the cue ball, you always wish that you had a ball to shoot at...so many times I see a player, shoot in all there easy balls, just to have their opponent safe them...then they have to kick, where as they could have really used that duck they shot in.

Always run the odds...what are my odds of missing...and if I miss...what are their odds of running out. Just like in a casino...never split face cards...it's about odds...there are rules. I believe that in 8 ball...you should never shoot a 60% shot...which leaves the opponent an 80% runout if you miss.
But shooting an 80% shot, and leaving a 60% runout to the opponent if you miss...makes good common sense. Again...it's simple math...keep the odds in your favor...

Another example, if your opponents last ball is on the short rail, and you are shooting at the eight ball into the corner nearest their last ball...which if you miss, gives the opponent the easy out...you have a 85% shot, lets say, at making the eight ball...but the opponent has an 85% chance at runout if you miss...
It makes sense to hit the eight in hard, follow the cue ball into the short rail, and back out away from the path of the opponents last ball. You lessened your chance of making the 8 from 85% down to 80%... But you lessened the opponents chance at runout from 85% down to 15%...thereby putting the odds significantly back in your favor.......80% to put 8 in, 85% chance to get up to table again if you miss

All about odds and math ;-)
That's how I play anyway-hope it helps.

 

[oldschool2791]

If you really want to learn how to play 8 ball well, go order the 8 Ball Bible RIGHT NOW. This is the best book ever on shootding 8 ball on a bar box. The concepts even apply to playing on a big table.

IMHO the pros take a long time looking at the layout of the table at first. Then, once they have decided what to do, they shoot the balls all in, or figure out a way to play some lockup safes that also give them an advantage.

I bought the 8 ball bible and love it.I also bought banking with the beard and like it also.

 

[oldschool2791]

Ive been playing primarily BB for several years. I was a BT ( Big Table) player for probably 20 years. I always hated the BB and seemed like I never played as well on the BB compared to how well I could on a BT.

When I switched over to the BB the one thing I realized right off is the difference in position play. The upper echelon players on the BB play position in the simplest way possible. Never move the cue-ball more than you need to. I always avoid taking snooker routes in getting position on my next shot when I can. Seems to me at the higher levels most runs are stopped by position errors, rather than missed shots on a BB.

Sounds simple and basic, but being aware of and playing patterns where you can run out and always leave the cue ball where you can at least see your next ball so you have a chance to win. Its become a integral part of how I see patterns and the way I play position. Its brought my game up a lot, a whole lot.

Another thing that is something that will reap you great rewards is learning to break without scratching. Breaking spreading the balls and scratching against good players is the kiss of death. There's a place by me that opens the tables one day a week ( NO Quarters). It is something you seldom see on a BB, practicing your break over and over. It would be wise to see if there's a place around you that has free pool and spend a few hours really dialing in your break.

Oh and one last thing that kinda goes in the strategy category. When playing and my opponent misses and partially runs out. I will play a pattern that never leaves them easy or make-able shots on their last balls. I'll start my run with a hard shot (if I need to) knowing even if I don't make it I'm gonna leave them where they cant get out easily or at all. This works probably 75% of the time, sometimes the way their balls lay you aren't afforded the luxury of a missed shot. Again this sounds very basic, and it is but it will win you a few more games if incorporated into your play.

I like the not going any snooker route idea,haven't thought of that one.The breaking practice I do that already but is a good idea.And I will add the blocking their position routes of the final balls of the bad guys set.Thank you very much for the ideas.

 

[oldschool2791]

Snapshot,
When Scott mentioned 8 ball liability I think he was referring not to the concept of a key ball or whether you could get on the 8, but rather does the 8 have a pocket once you remove your balls. Steve[/QUOTE I did'nt really understand what he was saying but now after reading yours I do,thanks

 

[oldschool2791]

Cue control, planning, patience, shot selection, defense, strategy, eight ball set up, ...
...here's my advice on what NOT to do...

Don't break up clusters as a general rule...instead, gently and accurately thread the cue ball into the spot where you can make one of your balls in from that cluster, while gently moving the other tied up ball into the clear.

Don't take shots which have less than 80% probability. Instead, look for safety.

Don't cross your leave lines, find a way to run your cue ball towards your next shot or away from it, so speed is taken out of the equation.

Planning...choose the ball order carefully, this is where most mistakes are made...almost any caliber player could run out most tables if they saw the easy patterns...stop-shot patterns are ideal. Avoid draw...it's unpredictable...always try to use top when possible.

Move the cue ball as little as possible, settle for short-side leaves, and long table shots...stay in the bigger end of the funnel, ensuring that u get the leave...cuz any shot is Fairly easily made on a barbox.

Shoot firm...table roll eats a lot of players up. Find a good speed that u can use 80% of the time.

Leave balls on the table until you are ready to run out. These easy balls are soldiers on the field ...fighting for you. Worry about the difficult balls always and leave these ducks alone. When you get in trouble with the cue ball, you always wish that you had a ball to shoot at...so many times I see a player, shoot in all there easy balls, just to have their opponent safe them...then they have to kick, where as they could have really used that duck they shot in.

Always run the odds...what are my odds of missing...and if I miss...what are their odds of running out. Just like in a casino...never split face cards...it's about odds...there are rules. I believe that in 8 ball...you should never shoot a 60% shot...which leaves the opponent an 80% runout if you miss.
But shooting an 80% shot, and leaving a 60% runout to the opponent if you miss...makes good common sense. Again...it's simple math...keep the odds in your favor...

Another example, if your opponents last ball is on the short rail, and you are shooting at the eight ball into the corner nearest their last ball...which if you miss, gives the opponent the easy out...you have a 85% shot, lets say, at making the eight ball...but the opponent has an 85% chance at runout if you miss...
It makes sense to hit the eight in hard, follow the cue ball into the short rail, and back out away from the path of the opponents last ball. You lessened your chance of making the 8 from 85% down to 80%... But you lessened the opponents chance at runout from 85% down to 15%...thereby putting the odds significantly back in your favor.......80% to put 8 in, 85% chance to get up to table again if you miss

All about odds and math ;-)
That's how I play anyway-hope it helps.

thanks for the ideas,some I use but some I'll add

 

[SCCues]

Hi guys and gals I only play on the barbox but havent played in leagues for about ten years but would consider myself a C+ B- 8 ball player . When I played I did the" team " first as in not always playing to my potential, I was considered the strongest 6 "APA" in my area not thats to brag about.I've recently started playing again and started trying to think of the skills neede to be a barbox specialist.PLease dont coment if you are gonna beatup the barbox.My list might seem alittle strange on a couple of the skills I've been working on but they seem important to me because of the size of the barbox "7 footer" Heres my list please add or critiqe.1 "cue ball control" small area ball spead and control important.2" break control with power" I can 2nd ball break also but my spread is alot better with power control break.3 "Defense" congested and you will need to make 2 way shots,safety break shots. 4 kicks,when you are left safe.5 cluster work,barbox has alot of clusters.6 carom and combos, I think these 2 are way under used in the games I see.7 banks.......ok heres it is short version 1 cue bal control..2Break control...3Defense...4kicks...5cluster work...6carom and combos...7 banks. please add or tell me your opinions. thank you.:smile:

Barbox Monster!

You want to read about some barbox monsters, check out this thread and you'll read about players who run the whole set out! If you lose the lag or coin flip you're done playing these guys......

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=291532

James

 

[whitewolf]

As good as that book is, it does spend a lot of time on the different aspects of the barbox cue ball. This might not be as prevalent in todays age.
The book addresses strategy incorporating the larger heavier magnetic cue ball.
Today, the barbox championships in Reno, NV use Diamond tables. The cue ball is not the factor it used to be.

Maybe I missed something, but the strategy topics hardly mentioned the heavier cueball, or if they did it was merely a sidenote. The book was mostly theoretical, IMHO. You can even apply its concepts to the big tables, except for the 'dead zones' if you remember reading about those. It's the principles that are important.

 

[GeoEnvi]

Maybe I missed something, but the strategy topics hardly mentioned the heavier cueball, or if they did it was merely a sidenote. The book was mostly theoretical, IMHO. You can even apply its concepts to the big tables, except for the 'dead zones' if you remember reading about those. It's the principles that are important.

Much like that wolf avatar, heavy or grossly oversized cueballs are becoming a rare breed.

Most of the bar boxes I come across these days are using the magnetic cue ball. It's slightly heavier, but nothing like the moon rocks that pop up every now and again.

One thing about the bar box cue balls and kicking systems: I notice that they tend to play 'on system' easier than the "measle" and "red circle" cues. Perhaps the extra weight helps add more running english and hold the turn better off the 2nd rail... Anyone else agree>?