What sport is harder, Billiards or Golf?

[trustyrusty]

I heard that Steve Williams is now on a Million a year salary with a bonus at the end of the year (maybe 250-500K). He IS an integral part of Tiger's team. Another Pro golf caddy told me this.

I'm guessing Tiger prolly wouldn't be the easiest guy on tour to caddy for...but for that kinda coin?! Oh, and other perks; he gave Steve the Ford GT he won for winning at Doral (can't remember which year). I've gotta buncha buddies in the golf BIZ (mostly equipment reps, teaching pros, etc.). It's not the easiest life; as I'm sure most sports related fields aren't (if you are not in the ELITE group of players/athletes). Just to name drop a bit...Corey Pavin's brother Matt is a mid-level big shot at Titleist (Acushnet), and he's my Scotty Cameron source ((tour grade stuff - YEAH!!!)) ! Even he has to travel like a mother, for a relatively modest salary. Gotta love it to do it, I guess....

 

[jay helfert]

I'm guessing Tiger prolly wouldn't be the easiest guy on tour to caddy for...but for that kinda coin?! Oh, and other perks; he gave Steve the Ford GT he won for winning at Doral (can't remember which year). I've gotta buncha buddies in the golf BIZ (mostly equipment reps, teaching pros, etc.). It's not the easiest life; as I'm sure most sports related fields aren't (if you are not in the ELITE group of players/athletes). Just to name drop a bit...Corey Pavin's brother Matt is a mid-level big shot at Titleist (Acushnet), and he's my Scotty Cameron source ((tour grade stuff - YEAH!!!)) ! Even he has to travel like a mother, for a relatively modest salary. Gotta love it to do it, I guess....

An interesting factoid. Rich Lerner's (the Golf announcer) brother is none other than Ted Lerner, who helped bring the WPC to Manila. He also did commentary for Philipine television and is a regular contributor to Billiards Digest. A great guy too by the way. If you read this Ted, you owe me dinner.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I think it is a question that is impossible to answer. The overall difficulty of any given sport is determined by the level of which the pro's and beginners perform at. In other words, how good are the best players in the world? Furthermore how difficult is it to achieve that skill level? Finally how quickly do beginners tend to take to a game?

 

[memikey]

It is a waste with his talent, but he has rheumatoid arthritis (not real bad but he's a whiner). We played a few times with Peter Jacobsen and Peter said Paul hits it tee to green as good as a tour pro and he does. He usually hits 16-18 greens in regulation and I can out chip and out putt him. Go figure? He played in a member/guest with my brother (also a 7-8 handicap) and they shoot gross 67. Guess how many strokes my brother helped Paul? You guessed it. None! Funny but true. He has talent and was the Oregon senior am champion 2 years ago but to make in on the senior tour is a big step and when professional seniors have a tough time making it into tournaments I seriously doubt if my friend could qualify.

Know what you mean Terry and I would just re-emphasise that I only meant that The European PGA Seniors Tour Q school standard would be well within your buddy's ability, especially as there are additional prizes for Super Seniors (over 60). All hypothetical of course cos there isn't really enough money on the European Tour even for the winners and (except for the upper echelons) the average standard is way below that of The Champions Tour in USA which is a much more difficult task. Very few Yanks regularly play in European seniors other than as a stepping stone into The Champions Q procedure.

Can personally sympathise with part of your mates short game problems as though my chipping is fine it is my putting which does for me. Seniors Tour player and resident joker Dennis O'Sullivan described me to a crowded event clubhouse bar as the illegitimate child of a +3 senior amateur golfer tee to green and a 22 handicapper with Parkinsons disease on the green.

As regards the rheumatoid can vouch for Enbrel treatment through my own good lady's experience and I wish both him and you good health and pool and golfing fun for many years to come as that's all that really matters. Cheers

 

[memikey]

I heard that Steve Williams is now on a Million a year salary with a bonus at the end of the year (maybe 250-500K). He IS an integral part of Tiger's team. Another Pro golf caddy told me this.

Yes Jay, apart from that........up until Michael Campbell won The US Open, Steve Williams was the highest earning "sportsman" in New Zealand's history

 

[acedotcom]

Well, since the thread's still going, I have to add a couple more thoughts. Yes, both sports require precision, but pool is much more demanding.

On a par 4, a golfer can hit a lousy drive and a lousy second shot, pitch on and one putt and still get a par.

In pool, one lousy shot and you sit down. In pool, you cannot miss. A golfer has the entire fairway to shoot at and the entire green - he's got a large margin of error. In pool, you have no such luxury.

I'm a lousy golfer, but one of the last times I played, I hit a grass-burning drive about 175 yards on a par 5 and followed it with a pretty good 3 wood. From there I chipped in for an eagle. There's nothing comparable in pool. Admittedly, I might be swayed by the fact that, though I don't play much, I can beat more people at golf than I can at pool.

 

[pineknot]

Golf, without any doubt whatsoever.

 

[Terry Erdman]

Well, since the thread's still going, I have to add a couple more thoughts. Yes, both sports require precision, but pool is much more demanding.

On a par 4, a golfer can hit a lousy drive and a lousy second shot, pitch on and one putt and still get a par.

In pool, one lousy shot and you sit down. In pool, you cannot miss. A golfer has the entire fairway to shoot at and the entire green - he's got a large margin of error. In pool, you have no such luxury.

I'm a lousy golfer, but one of the last times I played, I hit a grass-burning drive about 175 yards on a par 5 and followed it with a pretty good 3 wood. From there I chipped in for an eagle. There's nothing comparable in pool. Admittedly, I might be swayed by the fact that, though I don't play much, I can beat more people at golf than I can at pool.

But you won't do that at Carnoustie when the Open was just played! The Burn is there to grab you like a troll. Those are the toughest last 3 closing holes! Nasty, nasty, and nasty! If Archer has the 3 toughest balls to run out on a hill match he could still play safe but there is no safe at Carnoustie. Too damn tough at any level.

 

[jay helfert]

But you won't do that at Carnoustie when the Open was just played! The Burn is there to grab you like a troll. Those are the toughest last 3 closing holes! Nasty, nasty, and nasty! If Archer has the 3 toughest balls to run out on a hill match he could still play safe but there is no safe at Carnoustie. Too damn tough at any level.

That may be the greatest 18th hole in Golf. What a challenge!

 

[cigardave]

IMO, the difficulty of two sports are very similar... in that they both require correct and consistent mechanics to be even somewhat successful. Both sports require instruction and practice to develop the mechanics of the swing in golf and the stroke in pool... and quite a bit of practice to develop muscle memory for the (correct) mechanics.

As an individual, if we are somewhat adept at hand-eye coordination there is no reason why we could not become some proficient at either sport.

I've achieved a fair amount of proficiency in pool after playing on and off for the past 45 years (especially in last two or three)... yet until last weekend, had not played a round of golf in my life. In preparation for last weekend, I went to the driving range once with a golfing buddy and he explained the basics to me... and I did fairly well on the range. Some of that carried over to the course itself... and I didn't embarass myself too much. ... as I shot ~130 in both rounds on a pretty difficult course (according to my buddy... who was coaching me a bit along the way).

Bottomline... I believe that golf is harder than pool simply because the mechanics of the swing are more complex than the stroke in pool. When you hit a perfect shot in golf you've really done something noteworthy. Making a beautiful shot in pool in pool is definitely fun... but from a mechanics point of view, a perfect shot in golf in a sight to behold as the ball sails down the fairway... or into the cup from 60 feet out. I was fortunate to make a couple of very good shots last weekend... shots that I'll never forget since they were so beautiful. BTW, the best hole that I shot out of two rounds is I bogied a par-3... I was a happy camper!

At the same proficiency level, stringing together good shot after good shot in golf is probably every bit as difficult, if not more, than doing the same in pool.

 

[pineknot]

IMO, the difficulty of two sports are very similar... in that they both require correct and consistent mechanics to be even somewhat successful. Both sports require instruction and practice to develop the mechanics of the swing in golf and the stroke in pool... and quite a bit of practice to develop muscle memory for the (correct) mechanics.

As an individual, if we are somewhat adept at hand-eye coordination there is no reason why we could not become some proficient at either sport.

I've achieved a fair amount of proficiency in pool after playing on and off for the past 45 years (especially in last two or three)... yet until last weekend, had not played a round of golf in my life. In preparation for last weekend, I went to the driving range once with a golfing buddy and he explained the basics to me... and I did fairly well on the range. Some of that carried over to the course itself... and I didn't embarass myself too much. ... as I shot ~130 in both rounds on a pretty difficult course (according to my buddy... who was coaching me a bit along the way).

Bottomline... I believe that golf is harder than pool simply because the mechanics of the swing are more complex than the stroke in pool. When you hit a perfect shot in golf you've really done something noteworthy. Making a beautiful shot in pool in pool is definitely fun... but from a mechanics point of view, a perfect shot in golf in a sight to behold as the ball sails down the fairway... or into the cup from 60 feet out. I was fortunate to make a couple of very good shots last weekend... shots that I'll never forget since they were so beautiful. BTW, the best hole that I shot out of two rounds is I bogied a par-3... I was a happy camper!

At the same proficiency level, stringing together good shot after good shot in golf is probably every bit as difficult, if not more, than doing the same in pool.

Stringing together good shot after good shot in golf is WAY more difficult than the same in pool.

I have not read this thread, but has anyone mention the vagaries such as you are dealing with 14 clubs, not 1 stick? (or maybe 2/3, with jumpcue/breakcue)

Anyone mention you are dealing with mother nature and constantly changing conditions? Different grasses, sand consistencies, etc, ?

The time between golf shots, which gives more time for the gremlins, vs the relatively rapid nature of a pool run-out?

I could sit here and think of quite a few more examples, but those are only a few that pop into my head right away.

And hey, I love pool and though there are quite a few schmucks in the game, I have met many wonderful, interesting people along the way, too.

But pool as difficult as golf, not a chance.

 

[UWPoolGod1]

Another vote for Golf

Both games present their own challenges for trying to attain greatness. You have to concentrate in both but there are far more things to deal with in golf that have to be taken into effect. In pool you get things like: type of cloth, speed of the table, dead rails, dirty balls, karaoke in back ground, gnats over the lights...and then have to deal with making the shot with the correct english.

In golf you have to consider wind, the lay in a divot, sand, water, ball above the feet will pull left, ball below feet will slice right, uphill/downhill stance, leave ball below the hole, shot trajectory, which club, draw around trees on a dogleg left on the drive or cut the ball to slice to a dogleg right, opening up on chips, landing locations, spin on the ball, DAMN BEE IS BUZZING ME *swat*, "FOREEEEEE" *duck*, right angles at the flag, laying up versus going for it, and then the worst of all putting and reading the green. The pros then have the added problem of dealing with fans, cameras, chatter, etc.

Golf is way harder. My last two rounds I have broken my personal best by shooting 78 and then 76 on the same course mainly by concentrating and playing smart. Course Management. I could easily go down to another course and shoot a 90 if I don't take into account all of these little intricacies.

But golf appeals to the solo nature of the sport like pool. It is up to me how well/poor I do for the day.

 

[UWPoolGod1]

Hey guys...........there's got to be the germ of an idea here for a nice little AZB golf and 8 ball combined tournament, everyone off scratch at both disciplines

The bar that I play out of does this exact thing. It the "Stroke & Poke" tourney and they have been doing is for years and years. You get two man teams and pay whatever the entry is (think ours was $25 per man). I will approximately list the rules:

1. The morning there is a two person best ball scramble tourney with just 9 holes. 4-somes with two teams and they keep each others scores on each card to ensure no cheating...of course I guess both teams could collude to help each other out but then it comes down to what kind of integrity they have.

2. Everyone drives back to the bar and has lunch provided for them. They had chicken, potato/mac salad, roll. Drinks are on the players.

3. We then have a scotch doubles 8ball tourney race to 2 double elim. (the following I am not sure about the acutal number of stokes gained/lost but you get the idea) Every match win in the winners bracket lowers your golf score by one strokes, each match loss adds 3 strokes, each win in the loser bracket lowers your golf score by 2. Like I said this is off the cuff and I am not sure about the actual +/- strokes on wins/losses.

4. The top 4 or so teams get money back. The first place team got $100/ea which isn't alot but the tourney isn't designed for making money, but bragging rights and having a good time on a Saturday.

Every year at the end of the tourney the teams still in are right in the thick of it and one loss/win either way can determine the winning team out of the top 4 or so.

*cough* my teammate and I have won the past 3 *cough*

 

[qfancier]

IMO pool is tougher. It requires sooooo much knowledge it is insane. After 3+ years of playing I am still learning new things all the time. Both require a large amount of natural talent and commitment but I don't think there is much to learn in golf comparatively. Different courses bla bla bla, every rack is different, more variables in moving a cue ball around a table with precision than people realize.

Eric.

Not picking a fight with you, Eric, this is just a good post to quote.

Golf has many more variables that pool and is much harder to play correctly.