What the heck is 'Pocketing Speed'?

CaptainJR

CaptainJR

Shiver me timbers.
Silver Member
You hear this said from time to time. What is it. Or maybe I should say, what is it to you? I think there will be a lot of different definitions here. Is it a specific m.p.h.? Is it stop shot speed? Is it different for different shots or always the same? Is it the speed that gives a missed shot down the rail a chance to go in even though it hits the rail a half diamond up? Is it the banking speed that makes the object ball come off the rail a specific amount less than natural?

Let's figure this out.
 
pocket speed

The defination I understand is that the object ball is hit just hard enough to drop over the inner edge and not touch the back of the pocket.

Joe
 
Pocketing speed is hitting the shot only as hard as you have to for the ball to go in. By doing this, it makes the pocket "bigger" as you might hear announcers say, because you can hit a rail going into the pocket and still make the ball, compared to firing one at the hole and have it spit out at you.

I'm sure there are old posts about why this happens, and rail or pocket facing rebound angle and compression, compared to ball speed, if your into reading more about it.

Gerry
 
daytonajoe said:
The defination I understand is that the object ball is hit just hard enough to drop over the inner edge and not touch the back of the pocket.

Joe
Click to expand...

I have always understood it to be the opposite. Pocketing speed is a speed where the ball goes into the pocket firmly and at a speed where roll off's, funny cloth or what ever can't affect it's path. Not hard but not a trickle either, a speed you can trust the ball to go true at. This would also include brushing a rail. It needs the momentum to not be effected and continue to the pocket yet not jar the pocket.
 
Last edited:
I knew there would be some different positions on this. I specifically left out of my originally post some of the ones I thought people would come up with. I still haven't seen the one that I left out that is what I sort of think it means.
 
From my understanding of TV announcer's definition, I would say it is indeed the minimum speed needed to make the ball in the pocket, with little left over momentum, and minimal cue ball movement after contact. It has zero to do with English.

Shorty
 
CaptainJR said:
You hear this said from time to time. What is it. Or maybe I should say, what is it to you? I think there will be a lot of different definitions here. Is it a specific m.p.h.? Is it stop shot speed? Is it different for different shots or always the same? Is it the speed that gives a missed shot down the rail a chance to go in even though it hits the rail a half diamond up? Is it the banking speed that makes the object ball come off the rail a specific amount less than natural?

Let's figure this out.
Click to expand...

I think pocket speed might change a bit depending on the circumstances, but I think the general definition is the speed at which you increase the probability of pocketing the ball (not minimal, optimal). Stroking for shape is a non factor because of natural shape after the shot. On a tight pocket that accepts a slower object ball speed but jars on crisper hits it might be a slower speed, on a table with accepting pockets but also tends to roll off, it might be a little more firm. Answers given by people have included both of these, but I think the ball that trickles in and doesn't hit the back of the pocket is a little too weak.

One definition I have heard regarding the stroke of pocket speed is about the same stroke as a lag for the break, which ofcourse is a little different for different tables.

As usual, IMO.
Kelly
 
Last edited:
Shorty said:
From my understanding of TV announcer's definition, I would say it is indeed the minimum speed needed to make the ball in the pocket, with little left over momentum, and minimal cue ball movement after contact. It has zero to do with English.

Shorty
Click to expand...
That's a pretty good definition. A lot of new players think hitting balls slow gives them a better chance to make the ball, but a ball hit with a little more speed (momentum) rolls truer and is actually easier to hit accurately. You won't see too many pros slow rolling balls.
 
It has nothing to do with cue ball movement.

It's the OB speed at which the ball is most likely to go into the pocket if you hit it a little off angle. It's not the same as a slow-roll where it barely has enough momentum to get into the pocket...it has to have enough momentum to go in if it touches a rail, but not enough momentum to come back out if it touches the next point (i.e. gravity takes over at the lip of the pocket and brings it down).
 
As other shave stated, "pocket speed" means only using enough speed to safely make the pot. It has to be fast enough so the object ball will positively reach the pocket or a rail, but not fast enough where the speed could cause a bobble or miss. Pocket speed is relative depending on the shot, a short distance shot will have a slower pocket speed where as a longer shot will have a faster pocket speed.

Pocket speed is usually needed on tough shots where acurracy may be compromised, for example being jacked over a ball(s) or when using the mechanical bridge. Also, when playing eightball, pocket speed is used when potting is doubtful and you want to tie up the pocket if you do indeed miss.

When a shot must be played firm, the commentators will say "He has to play that shot at speed". This is not to be confused with "Pocket Speed".

Pocket speed does not mean "soft-rolling" a shot perse, as you always want enough speed that coming up short will never enter into the equation.

Basically, pocket speed affords more forgiveness. If you can only see half a pocket or plan to carom off a ball in the jaws, pocket speed can yield more success as the same shot played hard would cause a rattle out. If you anticipate a little over or undercutting on a difficult shot, or need to cheat the pocket, pocket speed will improve the odds or success.
 
Last edited:
Does this term have anything to do with when someone says, "Man, that guy really knows how to hide his true speed. He's way better than that!" The way I've heard it used, especially one the one-pocket fourms is when talking about one's playing ability.:confused:
 
shoutout33 said:
Does this term have anything to do with when someone says, "Man, that guy really knows how to hide his true speed. He's way better than that!" The way I've heard it used, especially one the one-pocket fourms is when talking about one's playing ability.:confused:
Click to expand...

No, that isn't what I'm talking about at all. Talking about pocketing speed, not 'speed'.
 
CaptainJR said:
You hear this said from time to time. What is it. Or maybe I should say, what is it to you? I think there will be a lot of different definitions here. Is it a specific m.p.h.? Is it stop shot speed? Is it different for different shots or always the same? Is it the speed that gives a missed shot down the rail a chance to go in even though it hits the rail a half diamond up? Is it the banking speed that makes the object ball come off the rail a specific amount less than natural?

Let's figure this out.
Click to expand...

The way I've always thought of it is exactly your fourth guess: "the speed that gives a missed shot down the rail a chance to go in even though it hits the rail a half diamond up." I think it's the maximum speed where the ball won't rattle in the pocket, even if it caught a rail on the way in.

This means if the ball rattles, you hit it faster than pocket speed. If you hit at or below pocket speed, the ball will fall provided it hits the pocket facing, even if it hit the rail.

This also means it's a different speed for every pocket and every angle into the pocket. I've played on some pockets (Shark Club in Merrifield VA for those in the know) where there is no pocket speed; i.e. a ball shot down the rail will not go in if you catch the rail at all, regardless of speed. Makes position play brutal because it's all you can do just to try to make the ball.

-Andrew
 
Pocket Speed

I always thought it was the speed at which a ball just fell over the edge of a pocket. I know in one pocket I want the ball to have just enough speed that if it doesn't go in it stays so close to the pocket that the other guy must make it or move it either way it takes him away from the offense.---Smitty
 
shoutout33 said:
Does this term have anything to do with when someone says, "Man, that guy really knows how to hide his true speed. He's way better than that!" The way I've heard it used, especially one the one-pocket fourms is when talking about one's playing ability.:confused:
Click to expand...

No. Hiding one's true speed is a hustling tactic where the better player plays just well enough to win without showing his true (higher) skill level. Once the bet has been raised to a sufficiently high level the player doing the hiding whips out his "A" game and steamrollers the player he is hustling. The "mark" is left broke and wondering what happened.
 
Whenever I've heard it used.....

People tell it to me all the time, and it has invariably been used when I have to hit it just hard enough to make the ball in order to get good shape, pocket speed..... "You hit that ball at pocket speed", or "Man you know pocket speed"....

Like many pool related terms it may vary by geographical region.

I can see how someone would relate it to how fast a ball can go and the pocket still accept balls, but at the same time if you're shooting off that would vary so much as to be a completely relative term....
 
Quite a few responses here. All good (except for the guy talking about the how good a player plays) responses. And still nobody mentioned what I was thinking of when I ask the question. So I guess I'm wrong here but I'll tell you anyway. Maybe someone can tell me what I'm going to talk about is called.

I thought it was a much more individual thing. I have a certain speed that I use on most of my shots. This allows me to be very specific on exactly how far the cue ball goes, say on follow shots (or draw shots). If I use this speed and use a quarter tip up I know exactly how far the cue ball is going to go after contact. When I'm saying pocketing speed it is assuming I'm going to make the shot and has more to do with cue ball control.

The one thing that some people did say that is part of what I'm talking about is that this shot is at speed. Not hard but well above a speed that might drift off line or let the table cheat you. I'm trying to practice this more so I can get away from slow rolling a ball. I feel that anytime you slow roll, you take a big chance. I practice this speed on straight in shots to learn my tip positions needed to get whitey to go or come back a certain amount.
 
CaptainJR said:
Quite a few responses here. All good (except for the guy talking about the how good a player plays) responses. And still nobody mentioned what I was thinking of when I ask the question. So I guess I'm wrong here but I'll tell you anyway. Maybe someone can tell me what I'm going to talk about is called.

I thought it was a much more individual thing. I have a certain speed that I use on most of my shots. This allows me to be very specific on exactly how far the cue ball goes, say on follow shots (or draw shots). If I use this speed and use a quarter tip up I know exactly how far the cue ball is going to go after contact. When I'm saying pocketing speed it is assuming I'm going to make the shot and has more to do with cue ball control.

The one thing that some people did say that is part of what I'm talking about is that this shot is at speed. Not hard but well above a speed that might drift off line or let the table cheat you. I'm trying to practice this more so I can get away from slow rolling a ball. I feel that anytime you slow roll, you take a big chance. I practice this speed on straight in shots to learn my tip positions needed to get whitey to go or come back a certain amount.
Click to expand...
Pocket speed isn't about controling the cueball, it's about making pockets play bigger. In other words, the speed of shot that the pocket favors.

A great example is, on a shot where you need to cheat the pocket and go into the rail 6" before the pocket, you have to play it at a very specific speed to make it. Too soft and the ball may roll off, too hard and it may rattle out. This perfect speed that gets the ball down is "pocket speed".
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top