What the pros do differently ...

[gregcantrall]

The only advantage for jacking up when attempting long range draw, is the removing the cloth frictional loses to the rotation of the CB by hopping the CB to the OB.

Reminds me of Mike Massey shooting from the head string to pocket the 1 ball near the foot string and 2 degrees off straight. With the 2 ball stuck in the middle of the headrail. He drew it back to perfect shape after jumping the 2 balls blocking at mid table.

 

[maha]

level meaning level as possible for the situation. most or many shots do not work well with a level cue but do better if closer to the state of level is approached.

 

[VarmintKong]

why is the loose grip important?

Hack here, so grain of salt.

I think your grip can be whatever it is, as long as it is consistent throughout the stroke. You don’t want to tighten up before impact and cause the tip to move. It’s easier to notice the tightening when you are loose to begin with, which is where I believe the advice comes from.

I read an interview with an NHL goalie where he talked about how he maintains his composure. I remember he said that he imagined all the lines on his face disappearing to keep himself relaxed. Made sense to me.

I often tell myself to “Be smooth” when I really have to bear down. I picture the lines on my brow and around my eyes disappear, as I focus in on the shot. I also picture a smooth stroke to and through the cue ball.

 

[straightline]

I've tried stiff arm, fist, fingertip, feather, toss, variations between and come away with a couple notions.

Linearity and ball displacement.

Too firm a grip works against that optimal launch window where speed and mass/displacement need to be just right.
The default with a firm grip is to ram the ball. This may or may not affect your stroke linearity but it for sure complicates getting the the optimal cue speed. Your body has to produce the correct shot dynamics.

Using finer touch via finger control will impart varying degrees of linear distortion. Whole gamut of detail, blah blah...

Tossing the cue would be the choice but for me, it's too difficult to control linearity.

What is working so far is a cradle grip with the back fingers _all the way through the stroke_. It's like the toss but without the timing issues of letting go; no wrist snap or closing hand either.

 

[straightline]

B

S? It's like uppercutting the ball for me and the whole dynamic is generating the cue speed with your bicep. I used to shoot most shots this way. It gets pretty accurate but precision rock speed and direction suffer and draw dynamics and range, [zero].

 

[justnum]

Today's pros have relationships and have kids and are parents.

The old pros that were single childless men are mostly a relic of the past.

 

[VarmintKong]

S? It's like uppercutting the ball for me and the whole dynamic is generating the cue speed with your bicep. I used to shoot most shots this way. It gets pretty accurate but precision rock speed and direction suffer and draw dynamics and range, [zero].

Dagnabbit! My bad.
You got me thinking bout too much tension making things hard to be repeatable. Wrote some junk about relaxed being easier to drop in the right slot and stroke without pulling offline.
Bout to fall asleep and musta highlighted and erased most of it before posting. Party on!

 

[straightline]

Dagnabbit! My bad.
You got me thinking bout too much tension making things hard to be repeatable. Wrote some junk about relaxed being easier to drop in the right slot and stroke without pulling offline.
Bout to fall asleep and musta highlighted and erased most of it before posting. Party on!

Rest well. Tomorrow's a new day. lol..

 

[jsp]

Nice thread. The following posts are what I would have posted myself...

I have always noticed the thing that pros do that is so much better than most mortal pool players is the intense, laser beam focus on every shot. It is extremely fatiguing to exert that much mental focus on each and every shot. Just look at the eyes when they are down on a shot. The eye discipline is rock solid, the warm up strokes are the same whether it is a 2 ft. gimme or a thin back cut, their breathing...everything is focused on that one shot. It really is impressive.

One huge difference I notice almost every pro does differently than I do is the time spent aiming the shot while down. They dial in exactly where they are striking the cue and object ball with more precision than I am capable of. If I were to aim for as long as they do on even routine shots I start day dreaming. If you watch even the faster paced players the still spend a good amount of time aiming. Their focus is intense, mine is not.

Both posts boil down to focus. Focus is what separates pros from the amateurs.

 

[jbart65]

I didn't expect so much debate about the fine art of draw shots. Makes me feel better to know it wasn't just me. I tried everything for a few months to get a consistent draw from distance before I started making substantial improvement.

Watched every video I could get my hands on and it still was a bit of a mystery to me for awhile. Every time I tried a draw with distance it became a stop shot. (At least I got good at long stop shots too).

 

[SpiderWebComm]

One huge difference I notice almost every pro does differently than I do is the time spent aiming the shot while down. They dial in exactly where they are striking the cue and object ball with more precision than I am capable of. If I were to aim for as long as they do on even routine shots I start day dreaming. If you watch even the faster paced players the still spend a good amount of time aiming. Their focus is intense.

Are they really focusing on the visual parts of aiming between CB and OB or are they getting in touch with the subconscious to
lock in on "FEEL" as is discussed and touted here by the non-pros? Sometimes the subconscious gives off a busy signal and the process is screwed. Good observation on your part.

 

[snookered_again]

I think another skill is to draw a shot when not hitting the OB more than a foot or two or even just a few inches. Its very handy to be able to duck behind a ball to hook someone and on a lot of those shots the distance or landing spot of the OB isn't as critical as the resting spot of the CB.
I thought Id practice those short light strokes and try to gain a bit more control, maybe just trying to move the OB a few inches and see the CB draw or go a little left or right on the draw.. i think repetitive practice of those light shots with just 2 balls on the table might be helpful for me..

I was watching an elderly player who'd really mastered this by lining up all the balls down the center of the table and basically keeping the CB on the same side of them,, controlling his backspin to place the CB for the next in line.. He said it was like playing solitaire, he'd challenge himself to try to run out all the balls without loosing shape on the next.. most shots had backspin but occasionally he'd intentionally let the CB roll across and approach from the other side of the table..


I think it is necessary sometimes to jack up on the cue if the CB is 2" from the rail, because it's impossible to hit below the equator otherwise. I think its a false concept that many get when learning that jacking up the cue will result in backspin when in actuality its more about the feel or just getting it right..

Ill often need to raise my cue because of an obstacle , a wall is in the way..
the shot will sound like a "thunk"because I'm driving the ball down into the cloth and that reduces accuracy,,


what Ive been doing more is unscrewing the butt and just using half my 3/4 cue. I'll also sometimes try to do that on a very light shot , usually a planned hook requiring a real featherweight touch.. Trying to control the hardness of a shot to roll up to and touch another ball is really hard to do because to do it correctly it takes a very good control of just how lightweight the shot is.. I wonder sometimes if a 10 ounce cue could be useful. maybe a lightweight butt?

I'm thinking thinking that eliminating the butt gives me a lightweight cue to work with.. half the 3/4 cue changes the stance but sometimes that's less awkward than being jacked up against a wall. In a lot of instances we can use a shortie, I just don't own a shortie with a snooker sized tip and dislike using a half inch tip on snooker balls..
In a perfect world I'd like a 3/4 with an option to use a butt that is about 6" short for obstacles.. There are so many types of joints that it's a bit hard to just run out and buy a thing like that.

Definitely a good feature for a cue maker to make as an option.. lots have extensions, not many cues have a way to shorten them.

Most cues are designed with the assumption that the player never has obstacles but in the real world its not that uncommon to encounter this, it's just not something a pro ever has to deal with..

The rails on my home table are a bit high so it can play 2 1/4" or 2 1/16" usually I use the smaller balls.. This amounts to the ball being more hidden by the rail when it's on the rail,, ..presenting a little challenge. less ball to hit, nothing below the equator for sure. I dont really mind the challenge..


Since they are snooker cushions and not 8 ball style, the balls dont seem to really get driven down to cause a gutter, like they will if you use undersized balls with triangular cushions.

If the CB is say 4" from the rail , and there is just no room to put a bridge hand on the table.. well it raises my cue because I'm putting my hand on the rail to bridge with.
I see some just put two fingers on the rail and slide the cue on top of the rail.. that gets the tip lower.. now its not so jacked up.. It looks sensible but whenever I try to bridge like that I seem to miss..

I think its because the hand I'm using to bridge and the cue holding hand are working in conjunction in muscle memory, for aim, and without the feel of the cue dragging on my left hand.. it's more difficult for me to aim consistently.
maybe doing that is just another skill to master..

I wonder if many others here would use two fingers to captivate the cue while letting the cue slide on the cushion itself? do you think this is just bad practice or is it a learned skill?

 

[gregcantrall]

One huge difference I notice almost every pro does differently than I do is the time spent aiming the shot while down. They dial in exactly where they are striking the cue and object ball with more precision than I am capable of. If I were to aim for as long as they do on even routine shots I start day dreaming. If you watch even the faster paced players the still spend a good amount of time aiming. Their focus is intense, mine is not.

Just an extra second at the back of the stroke can seem like an eternity if they never miss.
The coarse tuning of the foundation and mechanics comes before the Fine tuning of the presentation of the cuetip to the ball. Giving the fine-tuning required can lead to a longer pause on some shots. Something I have noticed in Ronnie O'Sullivan is on occasion a longer pause at the back in his rocket pace shot making.

 

[snookered_again]

Ive been trying a much slow backstroke, for some reason I think its helping. maybe just a moment more to micofocus on the aim?

sometimes I find that distractions ocur, in my mind or in surroundings, so taking a moment more to "feel that moment" is hard to describe.. you know , you get to a place in your head where you say ok I got this shot.. bang and you did..

sometimes a step back and re-aiming helps especially if it's a distraction from another person.. no need to comment or be rude, just recognizing the moment is wrong and trying over rather than letting go resulting in a miss can help, for me.

also maybe a polite way to say shut up you are distracting me.. you want to talk so I'll stand up and give you my attention, ill look you in the eye and listen.. then I'll shoot.

the body language is often enough.. no words needed... My theory is the "offender" is going to just plainly realize that he was (either inadvertently or consciously) , sharking you and that your reaction was to look after that before committing to the stroke.

Chances are he knows exactly why you stopped and stood up.. a battle of words is of no help unless you want to be a cop.. being in control of your shot is your right to assert.. If he was just making a wisecrack or a joke then why resort to a big discussion, stop and laugh at the joke, then shoot. If you shoot while laughing you surely miss..

I do that at work as I work with tools, people come up and talk, drill me with questions on this or that. I stand up put the wrenches down, give them the attention they need, that way I'm not screwing up as often by being distracted.
Doesn't take long for them to realize you aren't playing into it and they are preventing you from working.. then I'll end the conversation and go back to my own focus, rather than trying to divide it.. Same basic theory applied..

I find This a nicer way to deal with the issue than verbalizing that they are distracting you..to which there is some chance of backlash , denial etc.

pros might have less distractions than many other real world atmospheres.
A judge may intervene in the sharking if its a pro.

We mere mortals don't usually have that as an option. tuning stuff out is a skill in itself. Sometimes its a worry that popped into your head, or similar.. If you dont take things to the point of ridiculousness, I think that helps,,, for me anyway.

 

[Stickman9]

Speed control. The pros always seem to hit the cue ball at the correct speed

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

I didn't expect so much debate about the fine art of draw shots. Makes me feel better to know it wasn't just me. I tried everything for a few months to get a consistent draw from distance before I started making substantial improvement.

Watched every video I could get my hands on and it still was a bit of a mystery to me for awhile. Every time I tried a draw with distance it became a stop shot. (At least I got good at long stop shots too).

What do you need a book or video for? Just hit the cb low.

All this draw talk convinced me to do a test last night and also help out my woman who never hits hard and is trying to draw better. She tried a few times and couldn’t draw much. So….

Ball 5 ft away straight in 5” off the rail hit lag speed with maximum draw without jacking up and no fancy or “cute” cue/wrist stuff. Just my normal stroke straight through at lag speed. Came back 1 table length on first and only attempt on a 7 footer. It’s easy once you get it down. Cloth was pretty fresh. I almost never use Max draw. Theres more accurate methods than full draw. But The way it felt shot would be good for probably around 4-5ft of draw without any added effort on used cloth. Results may vary(my shaft is smaller at 11.5mm). You just have to make sure you hit the cb correctly and the object ball square for best results.

And yes. Kim gave me a funny look like I was the devil after that shot.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Watching the Premier League of pool and really focusing on it, I was struck by how pros play differently from decent everyday players and even really good amateurs.

It's no surprise, of course. They obviously have better skills and more precision than mere mortals.

The two things that have struck me the most are the use of draw and coming into the line of the shot.

The pros use draw a lot more than amateur players, from what I can see.

At my pool hall, players use draw now and then for pulling the ball straight back, but very few do long draws. And many of them don't use draw all that much for shots with a lot more angle. Stun-draw, for instance.

The pros also come across the line of a shot a lot more than I would have thought. And often with draw shots.

Am I wrong? Right?

What do you notice the pros doing differently than amateurs, and do you try to incorporate it into your game?

They "roll" the ball less, and tend to have the ball sliding across the cloth further towards the object ball, and as such, tend to minimize the effect of errant left/right English during the stroke. If you roll the ball and mishit it left or right, the cue ball path bends slightly on the way to the object ball, resulting in a thicker/thinner hit on the object ball. So that even if you make the ball, results in positional differences of 1-3 feet, or more. If you want to see the visual effect of this, see how pro hit cue balls tend to "gear" off the object ball, and have natural running English off the first rail, "spreading" the angle off the first rail. Pros account for this in their positional efforts, and play stun draw / follow based on the english they expect the cue ball to pick up off the gearing effect.

Amateurs try to deal with tight pockets by rolling the ball more, thereby "opening up" the pocket to inaccurate hits. Pros deal with tight pockets by hitting with a bit more stroke to keep the ball sliding more, so if they aim the ball center pocket, any English mishit result in less error to one side of the pocket or the other.

These are the main differences I have seen between pros and amateurs. Some players have the talent to recognize this core dynamic of the game, and build their game from the ground up based on stroke and the English "gearing " effect on well stroked balls. Amateurs compensate by rolling balls more.

Josh Filler's entire game is built off of stunning the ball (stun draw/follow/center) much more than your average pro, which is why his shotmaking is so much more accurate.

 

[straightline]

They "roll" the ball less, and tend to have the ball sliding across the cloth further towards the object ball, and as such, tend to minimize the effect of errant left/right English during the stroke. If you roll the ball and mishit it left or right, the cue ball path bends slightly on the way to the object ball, resulting in a thicker/thinner hit on the object ball. So that even if you make the ball, results in positional differences of 1-3 feet, or more. If you want to see the visual effect of this, see how pro hit cue balls tend to "gear" off the object ball, and have natural running English off the first rail, "spreading" the angle off the first rail. Pros account for this in their positional efforts, and play stun draw / follow based on the english they expect the cue ball to pick up off the gearing effect.

Amateurs try to deal with tight pockets by rolling the ball more, thereby "opening up" the pocket to inaccurate hits. Pros deal with tight pockets by hitting with a bit more stroke to keep the ball sliding more, so if they aim the ball center pocket, any English mishit result in less error to one side of the pocket or the other.

These are the main differences I have seen between pros and amateurs. Some players have the talent to recognize this core dynamic of the game, and build their game from the ground up based on stroke and the English "gearing " effect on well stroked balls. Amateurs compensate by rolling balls more.

Josh Filler's entire game is built off of stunning the ball (stun draw/follow/center) much more than your average pro, which is why his shotmaking is so much more accurate.

Thought provoking. Could be why I shoot CBL.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Joshua Filler really stands out to me as player who uses centerball more regularly than other players and who avoids unnecessary spin. Ko Ping-Yi as well.

Filler also seems to accept longer but eminently makeable shots instead of using spin to close the distance. I wonder if that is what helps him to be so accurate.

Well stroked stun shots result in a very predictable cue ball path, and hitting the center of the pocket. Spinning the ball results in differing thickness of hit, and therefore, pocketing the ball into one side of the pocket or another. This difference results in multiple feet of difference in position.Most timesFiller and players who play like him spin the ball, they are still stunning the ball, and using the spin to slightly adjust the secondary angle off the first and second rail. By "secondary angle", I mean not the angle the ball enters the rail, but the one it leaves the rail with because of the added spin. The cue ball is still stroked all the way to the object ball with mostly stun.

The pros practice these stun shots at all distances. Shorter distances require less" speed" to keep the bLl stunning around the table, longer shots more, of course.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Right. Saying "Filler uses center more" is very different from saying "Filler never uses English." It is a relative measure to other pros. FWIW, in my watching I do feel like Filler chooses options that allow for center axis hits more frequently than most other pros--even though he is quite adept at spinning the rock as needed.

Sometimes success is just minimizing the chances for mistakes.

I think it is more accurate to say "Filler stuns the ball more, and his English is more effective as such". A well struck stun shot cutting the ball causes the cue ball to naturally pick up running English due to the cue ball gearing off the object ball. When you get this kind of action off the object ball, less English is required to really spin the ball around the table.

To be precise... "Stun" is not a result of "center ball hits". It is the result of having the cue ball sliding insteading of rolling when it hits the object ball. Pros are simply better at having the ball sliding when it strikes the object ball instead of rolling, at all distsnces. When you hear the commentators talking about a pro "decelerating on the shot", what they are actually saying is the pro did not keep stun on the object ball, and the ball picked up roll. This roll magnifies any off center hit, causes thicker/thinner hits, which results in pocketing the ball either left or right of the part of the pocket you wanted to hit, which results in positional inaccuracies of multiple feet, potentially.