What to look at

DrCue'sProtege said:
Its that gorilla logic of mine.
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Fixed.

DrCue'sProtege said:
Somebody said if you look at a girl walking down the street you will wreck your car as it sort of "goes toward her" and another instructor told me "if you are riding a motorcycle down the middle of the road and you look over at the ditch, the motorcycle will go into the ditch."

I dont buy either analogy. I've ridden motorcycles, mine would continue to go straight down the road. and my car wouldnt go in the direction of the girl either. If people dont have any better hand/eye/head coordination than that there must be something wrong with them.
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Normally I don't feed the trolls, but this happens to be an area I know a lot about. I've been an open wheel racer for the last 10-years, and avid karter since long before that. About 5-years ago I also started competitively racing motorcycles in a local circuit. Throughout my career I've taken lessons from some top racers, including a stint over in Germany on the Nuerburgring. I've been all throughout the US racing, including down in Dayton, Sebring, you name it, I've been there. I can tell you that it's unanimously agreed and undisputed that you should look where you want to go, in a motorcycle or car. I don't even have to look very far to examples, here's just the first few hits on google:

Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8SVaIR4sWA

Article: Look where you want to go

Some motogp shots: (look at EVERYONE looking THROUGH the turn to where they want to go)

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Let go to pool now:

Reyes:
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Souquet:
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Ortmann:
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Bustamante:
francisco%20bustamante.jpg


Need I go on?
 
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I don't know anything about motorcycles, but I do know a little about pool, and I just saw 4 pictures of some reasonably good pool players, and the eyes of all 4 were most definitely locked on the target, and not the cue ball.

Mike, you can argue with us all you like, but I think those pictures should at least cause you to reconsider your position.

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
I don't know anything about motorcycles, but I do know a little about pool, and I just saw 4 pictures of some reasonably good pool players, and the eyes of all 4 were most definitely locked on the target, and not the cue ball.

Mike, you can argue with us all you like, but I think those pictures should at least cause you to reconsider your position.

Steve
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Ralf told me in an email he looks at the CB last. Johnny Archer has recently said he looks at the CB last.

Those are 4 pictures, thats all. Just 4 pictures that someone happened to run across and now others draw the conclusion that the 11th Commandment is "Thou Shalt Look At The OB Last"???

think about it. why dont we just let this discussion die? I'm never going to change and we are never going to agree. I am going to log off and go watch Mannix.

Mike
 
Hmmmm

DrCue'sProtege said:
Its that Spockian logic of mine.

RJ: Spockian logic: Enough Said

The OB is stationary, its not moving, you dont have to worry about it. What you have to worry about is delivering the cue tip to the exact aim point on the CB. The only moving part is the cue and/or tip, you have to worry about where its going and nothing else. To me this is an absolute no-brainer. if you dont deliver the tip to the exact spot on the CB you will miss the shot - unless its a duck or close to it.

RJ: Exactly, the CB is not moving. Thus, if you already have a good stroke, with propert mechanics, where else is your cue tip going to hit?

I guess i must clarify why i feel so strongly. Its because CB last works for me and OB doesnt. i have tried looking at the OB last a million times and it doesnt work for me. Simple logic tells me its not the wright way - at least for me. If OB last works for some people then by all means they should continue down that path.

RJ: If you mean most of the players on the planet, than yes, it does work. If it is not working for you I suspect there are some other underlying conditions in your stroke, mechanics, aim, or something more.

Somebody said earlier in this thread that the "Cue goes where the eyes go" and i couldnt agree more. The eyes should be focused on the contact point of the CB and thats where you want the tip to go.

RJ: Again, I already know where the tip is going because I did my practice strokes. Now I need my eyes, hence my brain, to see exactly what I want performed.

Somebody said if you look at a girl walking down the street you will wreck your car as it sort of "goes toward her" and another instructor told me "if you are riding a motorcycle down the middle of the road and you look over at the ditch, the motorcycle will go into the ditch."

RJ: What I said was if you focus on something else with your eyes you hands will follow. Nothing about a crash, but your hands will begin to steer toward your "interest". Your hands follow your eyes. Yes, you can take a momentary glance and be fine, but the longer you gander, the more you will steer toward the object of your desire.

I dont buy either analogy. I've ridden motorcycles, mine would continue to go straight down the road. and my car wouldnt go in the direction of the girl either. If people dont have any better hand/eye/head coordination than that there must be something wrong with them.

RJ: Well, if your hand/eye coordination is so superior to the rest of us, and you can look all over the universe while riding a motorcycle, certainly you could look at the OB while striking the CB, No ??
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Plus, the original poster of this thread asked the following; ""The reason why i am asking when i see better players out there they seem to be looking at the OB not the CB and I am wondering if its costing me shots or if i need to concentrate on aiming more(and i am already concentrating on that already)"" Not to contradict poolteacher, but there has been at least 5 instructors saying the exact same thing not to meniton the fabulous photos showing what top players are looking at when they shoot.So, yes, you don't have to look at the OB, but don't expect your game to climb to new heights anytime soon. I've yet to see a good player look at the CB while shooting COLOR]

PS: I'll give you an easy challenge. Next time you run on a treadmill, look to your left while you are running.......just for kicks and giggles let us know what happens??
 
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DrCue'sProtege said:
And am i correct in my understanding that what you posters/instructors are talking about when you say OB last is that its SET-PAUSE-FINISH and between Pause and Finish is when you shift your eyes from the CB to the OB. correct?

Mike
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my eyes shift right after my cue stops at the beginning of my set position then a solid inhale exhale 2 count... then I stroke the ball from set.... fwiw
 
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Oops,

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checked finally before posting *who* answered here in the thread. So i ll follow the good advice from Steve and Scott and enjoy my cup of coffee.
The *experts* entered the thread again- sad for the guy who opened the thread.
but i m sure that he s clever enough to take the advices from the *right* guys.

Next time i ll ask Ralf if he wants to increase his game and change his eye-patterns completly :p I ll give him the advice to contact the *2 experts* here in the forum :grin-square:

lg,
coffee-drinkin
Ingo
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Not to contradict poolteacher, but there has been at least 5 instructors saying the exact same thing not to meniton the fabulous photos showing what top players are looking at when they shoot
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If I'm reading your post correctly, I don't see any contradiction at all. I am a firm believer in focusing on your target when you shoot, and not the cue ball. I will qualify that statement with the exception of extreme shots like jumps and masse's where the focus is very different.

Steve
 
I'm convinced!

Had a fine time shooting last night, and I think I've gotten my eye-patterns back to where they should be. And without much conscious effort now. (Sorry guys, "practicing" while I'm playing again. Not as much, though! It seriously became less and less of a thought pattern when setting up. And before I "got down". Progress...yay!)

Not changing my world completely, after just a few nights. But I can clearly see how much easier it is for me to be comfortable when I aim. I had gotten so full of doubt and discouraged over the last few months. This is a marked change. Now perhaps I can move on to other improvements!

Thanks again gang. Good luck, OP. You too, Mike. (Did he really say he was gonna go watch Mannix? :p I haven't seen that show in forever! And yes, I'm old enough to remember it when it was on originally... :D )
 
pooltchr said:
Mike, you can argue with us all you like, but I think those pictures should at least cause you to reconsider your position.

Steve
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I forgot to mention......in all of those pics, neither of those players is shooting, they were just getting ready to shoot. they might still be going through their process, and might be looking at the OB at the time those pics were taken. Who knows, when they fired, they might be looking at the CB last.

Mike
 
justadub said:
You too, Mike. (Did he really say he was gonna go watch Mannix? :p I haven't seen that show in forever! And yes, I'm old enough to remember it when it was on originally... :D )
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Yes, i said Mannix. I dont like any of the shows on TV today so i watch old shows, ones i used to like years ago. i have alot of them on DVD.

Tuesday night - Cannon
Wednesday night - alternates between The Invaders and The Time Tunnel
Thursday night - was Charlie's Angels but now its The Streets Of San Francisco.
Friday night - Barnaby Jones
Saturday night - Mannix
Sunday & Monday - whatever i feel like watching. And usually Dragnet when i eat supper of an evening.

Mike
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
I forgot to mention......in all of those pics, neither of those players is shooting, they were just getting ready to shoot. they might still be going through their process, and might be looking at the OB at the time those pics were taken. Who knows, when they fired, they might be looking at the CB last.

Mike
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OK, Mike. I give up. You know best, and the rest of us are wrong.

Maybe we should start posting the questions and just let you answer them.

Steve
 
I kinda wonder what Mike would say if Dr.Cue told him the same things you folks do... and I expect he would. Interesting thought.
 
Hmmmm

pooltchr said:
If I'm reading your post correctly, I don't see any contradiction at all. I am a firm believer in focusing on your target when you shoot, and not the cue ball. I will qualify that statement with the exception of extreme shots like jumps and masse's where the focus is very different.

Steve
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Steve.... you (we) are correct. I was referring to your comment of 4 professional instructors have thus far agreed to the proper eye alignment,,,but I counted 5 instructors in total agreement !!!! :thumbup: I think my attempt at humor was a swing and a miss !!
 
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When you start using those big numbers like 4 or 5, my math skills deteriorate!!! LOL

Steve
 
justadub said:
I kinda wonder what Mike would say if Dr.Cue told him the same things you folks do... and I expect he would. Interesting thought.
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I specifically asked Tom this question years ago. His answer centered on what he referred to as "Burning Focus."

That being, if you align properly, aim properly, and stroke straight, you can be looking at the blonde in the 5th row and you will still have shot success.

This age old debate is about like women. 9 out of 10 guys can say a woman isnt very attractive. But 1 guy will say she's totally gorgeous and it will all work for him.

Mike
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
I respectfully disagree. What you aim at is the exact spot on the CB you want your tip to contact.

Why would this produce a poke stroke?

And am i correct in my understanding that what you posters/instructors are talking about when you say OB last is that its SET-PAUSE-FINISH and between Pause and Finish is when you shift your eyes from the CB to the OB. correct?

Mike
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NOPE! After my warm-up strokes(looking at the cue ball) I switch my focus to the object ball and then begain my back stroke....randyg
 
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