What Type of Cueist Are You & Why Do You Think Your Way is Best?

I do what Dean does. I've found that I'm no good so I just do what I do. I might miss twice out of 10 racks of 9 ball so I'm not perfect.....yet.
 
I'm the kind that likes to put the ball in the hole. My way is best because when all the balls go in the hole I win. Is there another way?
 
Bavafongoul said:
There are certainly are a variety of shots but practicing fundamentals hardly makes you a one trick pony. Even pro baseball players still hit off of a tee when they want to practice fundamentals. And pro golfers practice swing fundamentals every time they are on the range but on the course, the lie of the ball determines the actual swing needed......and they even practice using odd stances and difficult lies. However, on the driving range they practice swing fundamentals....like baseball players.

Pool players don't have to be any different and probably aren't when you break things down. We all expect to have to shoot jacked up over the cue ball at some point. frozen on the rail, snookered and a masse shot is required but that's just part of the game.....part of the rub of the green so to speak. But as pool players we all have a basic stroke....open or closed bridge....doesn't matter. As players, we have a bio-rhythm to our game...a cadence ...... the good players exhibit this trait and everyone can benefit from a more consistent routine......so being aware of how you execute and complete your pool stroke.......mentally conceptualizing the delivery and contact.....this helps you develop a consistently repetitive delivery method......you train yourself to feel the movement and when you get good at it, you can feel even the tiniest variations in arm or shoulder position or flexing, miniscule drop in your elbow, slight wrist bend.....I mean even tiny subtle stuff is detected even when you pocket the ball dead center but it didn't feel right.

When I feel that I am "in-stroke" if there's such a thing, even when I run a rack I can feel frustrated because my stroke didn't get me the position shape I wanted but stick ran the rack......pocketing object balls but my stroke just didn't feel right. There's also times when I didn't run the table and yet my stroke felt really good (sometimes balls just won't drop yet your stroke still produced perfect shot position).....you tune yourself in mentally and physically to the stroke movement....your stance....your head & neck position. It's all part of the process of trying to perfect a stroke delivery system that has minimal variation except as and when needed.


Matt B.
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Good post, Matt.
My foundation was shooting long straight shots, centre ball, on a 6 by 12...hundreds of them.

But using that stroke all the time is not good enough....I spin a lot.
 
You don't just push, pull or throw a cue. I was brought up better than that. You first have to get to know the cue, get to know it's traits, it's quirks and it's weak spots. Then after this you can start to take the cue out to swanky restaurants, let it ride up front in the car instead of with the spare tyre in the back. You start to develop feelings for the cue, you give it a name, your cue action starts to fall in love with the cue, you listen to Beyoncé and take it to the cue repair guy and put an ivory ring on it, it never leaves your side, you walk proudly into the bar with it as all the guys just stare with jealousy. 20 years down the line you start to miss the good old days. Your cue action and cue don't seem to agree on anything any more. It's developed cracks and wrinkles and has aged horribly. But at the end of it, you can't use anything else now. You're in too deep and it's all your cue action knows any more.

Basically my cue action is a lot like a marriage. I can't do anything right, but it doesn't stop me trying.
 
Allen Brown said:
I like ponies.....the one I have does lots of tricks. He's pretty entertaining.
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Chuck Fields said:
Get off your high horse there buddy boy...... :thumbup:
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Allen Brown said:
It's a pony....get it right.
I will not ride anything that's bigger than me.:rotflmao1::yeah:
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Mikjary said:
No, PT. Quit your naggin'! :smile:

Best,
Mike
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Horses and playing pool?....time to show another stroke that every pool player should have...
....from the Cowboy....

image.jpg
 
His Boy Elroy said:
Hi Rick,
I've been away from the forums for awhile. So what do I see when I reappear but my favorite poster starting the first thread. As I said, I've been away. I hope no one's been giving you any ****** while I've been away!:thumbup:

I like to think I "caress" the cue ball. Why do I think that's the best way? It's simple. I've tried pushing, throwing, and pulling ( if you mean " hammer stroke) and "caressing is what all three eventually evolved into.

What is " Caressing" exactly? I read Willie Hoppe use that word to describe his hit on the ball. It's an aesthetic quality that appears after years of practicality and tinkering with the hit is practiced to exhaustion. It's accompanied with a certain sound.

I've heard it in videos; but, I forget which ones, I have no intention of making a video, I don't hang out in pool halls and no one's allowed in my basement, so maybe I should shut up and continue to stay away from the forums....I'll do just that....The "Caress" hit does exist though!
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Hi Tim,

I hope all is well with You & Yours.

There is no reason for you to stay away from the forums. Don't let any of the bully type drive you away.

One can Feel a "Caress" & a caress is more than just a split second... even if it is only for a split second.

All the Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
 
His Boy Elroy said:
Hi Rick,
I've been away from the forums for awhile. So what do I see when I reappear but my favorite poster starting the first thread. As I said, I've been away. I hope no one's been giving you any ****** while I've been away!:thumbup:

I like to think I "caress" the cue ball. Why do I think that's the best way? It's simple. I've tried pushing, throwing, and pulling ( if you mean " hammer stroke) and "caressing is what all three eventually evolved into.

What is " Caressing" exactly? I read Willie Hoppe use that word to describe his hit on the ball. It's an aesthetic quality that appears after years of practicality and tinkering with the hit is practiced to exhaustion. It's accompanied with a certain sound.

I've heard it in videos; but, I forget which ones, I have no intention of making a video, I don't hang out in pool halls and no one's allowed in my basement, so maybe I should shut up and continue to stay away from the forums....I'll do just that....The "Caress" hit does exist though!
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I am with you on the sound with a clean and pure hit.

That sound is ball click. I have written about it many times only to fall on deaf ears. When we play in the right speed the ball click will sound like a fine tuned instrument, a perfectly clean musical note, a thing of beauty.

When the stroke is delivered properly it's the ultimate sweet spot within itself.
It can be mastered by almost anyone when stroke technique is taught with emphasis on ball click. It's similiar to hitting a home run and you never felt the ball hit the bat,a square hit,clean, the sweet spot. Aim accuracy plays a big part.
This is different than hitting a ball up and down the table to learn speed, it's more refined.

Once learned and applied it bleeds through your pores.
It's a feel, a touch, soft or powerful it is never loud, its right. The extended follow through becomes very smooth.
It's not regimented, it finds it's way out through your natural.
You will not only know it when you hit it right you will hear it, feel it.

Sincerely:SS
 
Rick,
You raise some very interesting questions. Actually, you're flirting with what is the essence of the shot - making learning process.The shot - making learning process, at least in my case, consists of tinkering, tinkering, and more tinkering.

Experimenting with striking the cue ball in different manners and with a variety of textures is the only way I know of, to strive for my highest potential skill level
I've tinkered with the push shot. I don't think that particular shot calls for an explanation. My throw shot consisted of a VERY loose grip, a VERY short initial muscular propulsion of the cue forward, followed by allowing the weight of the cue to create it's own further momentum. I've discarded this shot: but, the process of tinkering can't exist without process of maintaining what works and discarding what doesn't.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Pulling." Maybe you mean the "Hammer stroke;" (or my version of the "Hammer stroke") where immediately after making contact with the CB I kind of "Pull back" similar to a skilled hammerer who "Pulls back" (or perceives that he is) immediately after contact with the nail...in order not to not bend the nail.

I'm not sure, Rick, quite what you mean by "Swinging;" but, when you explain it, I'm sure I'll say, "Been there!....Done that!

.....I fear I'm include on a few poster's "Ignore list" One factor could be several posts I made a few years ago touting my newly discovered and named, "Thud stroke." I've learned, and therefore, shall remain silent in this post concerning it's attributes...It's a tough sell!

So what finally emerged? My Caress stroke! It would never have emerged without tinkering, and tinkering, and tinkering.......and pushing, throwing, hammering, swinging, thudding.....and missing, and missing, and missing......before I started "Caressing" and "Making!'

Another thing I learned with all this tinkering is that T.O.I is the future of shot - making instruction. What might be seen by some as radical today will standard curriculum in the not - so - distant future!
 
I wrote my post # 35 before I read your post # 34. I always appreciate it when someone assures me I'm not on their "Ignore" list.
 
For me: It depends on the shot.

On shots where I don't drop my elbow, I feel like I'm pulling the cue.

On shots where I do drop my elbow, I feel like I'm pushing the cue.

On certain shots where I release the cue and let it slide through my grip hand through impact, I feel like I'm throwing the cue.
 
FranCrimi said:
For me: It depends on the shot.

On shots where I don't drop my elbow, I feel like I'm pulling the cue.

On shots where I do drop my elbow, I feel like I'm pushing the cue.

On certain shots where I release the cue and let it slide through my grip hand through impact, I feel like I'm throwing the cue.
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Ms. Crimi just stated the short version.

The thing is that I think too many are taught to only do one...
ALL of the time.

Could we say that the cue can be pulled INTO the ball & pushed through (with an elbow drop) during contact with that thing known as timing?

I think it has to do with the 90* relationship between the upper & lower arm, regardless of it's orientation to the table or the floor because of the dependency of the connection to the cue & the angle of the wrist relative to the stick.

When pulling... the motion can be done with the angle between the upper & lower arm closing from greater than 90* or from the whole arm moving as it pivots at the shoulder.

When pushing... the motion can be done with the angle between the upper & lower arm opening or extending from 90* or less with that angle increasing AND with the upper arm pivoting at the shoulder.

In golf, to keep from sculling or topping the ball, & to hit down & through, one places or transfers weight onto the front side to get into the proper position. The 'pivot' point, so to speak, is the front shoulder until the club is put into position & then the club is released or fired into & through the ball by the right side as the bent back elbow straightens & "pushes' the grip & club head "into & through the ball".

There are similar aspects when hitting a baseball... or a tennis ball... or a ping pong ball, or whatever.

The thing is that the implement is somehow LED into the hitting position before the ball is actually struck... at least if one wants to have any control of where it goes... and to lead the implement one has to have a connection to it so that one can control the implement.

If the implement is just sitting loose & barely being supported then one has no real control of the implement.

How do we LEAD the cue stick into the ball?

Is it lead by the elbow? Or is it lead by the shoulder? Or is lead by the wrist?

ALL Best Wishes for ALL,
Rick

PS If anyone does not want to think about any of this, that's fine. Please ignore the thread.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Ms. Crimi just stated the short version.

The thing is that I think too many are taught to only do one...
ALL of the time.

Could we say that the cue can be pulled INTO the ball & pushed through (with an elbow drop) during contact with that thing known as timing?

I think it has to do with the 90* relationship between the upper & lower arm, regardless of it's orientation to the table or the floor because of the dependency of the connection to the cue & the angle of the wrist relative to the stick.

When pulling... the motion can be done with the angle between the upper & lower arm closing from greater than 90* or from the whole arm moving as it pivots at the shoulder.

When pushing... the motion can be done with the angle between the upper & lower arm opening or extending from 90* or less with that angle increasing AND with the upper arm pivoting at the shoulder.

In golf, to keep from sculling or topping the ball, & to hit down & through, one places or transfers weight onto the front side to get into the proper position. The 'pivot' point, so to speak, is the front shoulder until the club is put into position & then the club is released or fired into & through the ball by the right side as the bent back elbow straightens & "pushes' the grip & club head "into & through the ball".

There are similar aspects when hitting a baseball... or a tennis ball... or a ping pong ball, or whatever.

The thing is that the implement is somehow LED into the hitting position before the ball is actually struck... at least if one wants to have any control of where it goes... and to lead the implement one has to have a connection to it so that one can control the implement.

If the implement is just sitting loose & barely being supported then one has no real control of the implement.

How do we LEAD the cue stick into the ball?

Is it lead by the elbow? Or is it lead by the shoulder? Or is lead by the wrist?

ALL Best Wishes for ALL,
Rick

PS If anyone does not want to think about any of this, that's fine. Please ignore the thread.
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ED......what your calling out, could be true via some instructors. I will say this, that the coaches that I associate with can all show you and teach you diff types of stroke, and have seen them perform diff ones as well. There are the SPF guys in the PBIA group as well that say, OBVOUSLY.....teach a PAUSE that occurs b/t the backswring and the actual final forward delivery to shoot the ball....that pause is taught to be "accentuated" during practice just to help break particular habits, but it doesn't mean that at first if your "holding" the pause fo 1+ seconds, thats not going or supposed to be your natural forever "hold" length on that pause......it is to teach to not be so "jerky" so there is a smooth transition.

During a fundamentals class you will learn a fundamental basic stroke and b uild things around it......justbecause some only choose to read the first chapter of a book doesn't mean they are qualifiied to criticize or quantify the contents of the entire book.....

i have personally seen plenty of coaches/instructors/players that all say adhere to a standard operating stroke for the standard typiical shot.....

FOR EXAMPLE......

most know I get in alignement a la "snooker" style.....more square with shot.....

if i have to jack up to jump or play some masse orr circus shots....or if i'm breaking a la' hillbilly and spearing through with a leg kick and such.....BOTH of those REQUIRE a more typcal SIDEWAYS stance with the body in relation to the cuestick....meaning the chest is more parallel to the cuestick/shotline as opposed to perpendicular with it.

WHY? becuase the body aint made like that, its encroaching and its not mechanically sound, plus it feels completely retarted.

Try it some time.....standcompletely square with a shot.....jack up high.....let me know how amazingly......BAD that feels lol

point is ricknado......you dont teach beginners and such the whole got dam world and confuse the living shit out of them for starters. I wont sit there and show a beginner for any amount of money some crazy top class trick shot circus stroking english, or how to shoot some 6 railer.........orhow to hold and bend the CB so you can go 2 rails back in your hole with the ball on the spot going LR/SR..........its too much rick....one step at a time. Some students get "held back" just like parents do with kids in school, so they can better learn material b/f continuing to the next part of process or step.


Some students can handle a 12hrs worth of info in a day and roll with it.....some cant barely handle 10 minutes......

and your sitting there making black and white comments, when the GREY is just as broad an possibly in greater quantity in particular niches of this game.

and dont you try and come from outside my perpherial.....with that that comment by trying to spin that to mean that I'm trying to say Randy, Scott and others are somehow wrong or not telling the truth, or the whole truth....if some piece of infor is held back from one of their students, or even one of mine......ITS FOR EXTREMELY GOOD REASONS AND IN THEIR BEST INTEREST..

this does not mean that tthe info will be forever more unavailable, just that not just yet.....you wouldn't teach a kid to break down mathmatical matrixes before they learn to add/sub/div/mul.....

then again.....the way you come off at times, maybe ya would??????

Information can not be mass dumped on someone and expecting them to just retain all that.

Most students I have i prefer to work with on a sort of set schedule....like weekly checkups and such....we go over a couple things.....they go on their own and workout with new info.....come back later and chase the dragon some more with me.....seen 4speeds put in the work and 1.5 years later be overall points champ and league MVP rated at a 9 in the 9 ball......thats pretty dog gone strong, thats how that particular student of mine went through his paces.....and worked his butt off, was very very hungry.

There is another here.....that was a friend of that samefella.....he's been drinking the punch.....other day someone said "man that kids priimed, he may be jumping to ligt speed soon, he just suddenly increased like crazy past 6 months"

I said "you say that like your surprised, I'm not.....the boy came to me, wanting to do what his friend accomplished, I expected this and I'm wondering when he's going to actually be serious"

wait wait Keeb......"so you dont think he's being serious rirght now"

i laughed and went home......i think that person who asked those couple questions is still head scratching......hopefully they will be intrigued of ongoings around them to come expand their minds.

This games all about YOU......nothing else.



-GreyGhost
 
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