What would be your ruling of this foul?

eastcoast_chris

eastcoast_chris

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting scenario came up last night.

BCA League finals ... final match of the year... trips to Vegas on the line... Tied at 2 rounds each... over all point total very close, so the overall total will probably come into play. 17 point scoring system used.

Player A missed his 8 ball and it is a hanger.

Player B is at the table with 3 balls left.... and a fairly easy layout.

What happened was Player B must have been nervous because as he was lining up his shot, he tip fouled the cue ball on a practice stroke.

Then in the split second before he continued to shoot the shot (after fouling), Player A yelled out (rightly so) "FOUL". It was said before Player B made contact with the cue ball for the second time.

So, the end result was the foul was conceded... no contest.

The question was, does the ball he pocketed after the foul count?

i.e. does Player A win 13-4 or 12-5 ?

I think the correct decision was made by the L.O., but just wondering how other would interpret this case.
 
I'd say 12-5. I don't recall any situation where a ball is spotted up on a foul except if the OB is knocked off the table. Any ball pocketed on a foul stays down.
 
This is a good question. I looked at the BCA rules and couldn't find anything that covers this explicitly. IMO, B's inning ended when he fouled. His subsequent stroke which pocketed a ball was neither a legal nor illegal stroke in the normal meaning; it was the same as shooting out of turn. The CB and the OB he sank should have been returned to their starting positions, and A should have had BIH due to the foul. Final score 13-4.
 
Fouled ball stays down and unfortunately counts. However, it's just bad sportsmanship to keep shooting when you know you've fouled. Shame on the shooter!
 
If player B:
1. knew he had committed a foul
2. had time to stop after foul was called
3. shot the ball anyway

it is an intentional foul and punishable at the league operators discretion.
 
TimKrazyMon said:
I'd say 12-5. I don't recall any situation where a ball is spotted up on a foul except if the OB is knocked off the table. Any ball pocketed on a foul stays down.
Click to expand...

Yeah but you don't get to shoot twice. He fouled, that was the end of his turn. But he then after he fouled AND the foul was called proceeded to shoot and pocket a ball. In no way does the ball he pocketed AFTER he had already fouled and lost his turn count.

Otherwise we get the next post on this "OK so we are playing for the trip, last game, our player needs to win 10-5 and we win the trip. The player on the other team is at the table, he has 4 balls down and is hooked on an open shot, he nudges the ball forward on a clear foul out to an open position and quickly fires his 5th ball in, our player attempts to call a foul but their player kicks him square in the nuts and then fires the 6th ball in, our player squeeks "foul" from the ground, their player goes "HUH? oh your right, sorry did I bump into ya?" The league operator said the balls down on the foul counted, we won the game 10-6 and lost the trip."

The point? You cannot allow people to foul and THEN make a ball by shooting again, if you do it can be abused all to hell. You can combo in a ball on an illegal shot and that ball will stay down, but you cannot hit the cueball and then hit it a second time and have a potted ball count.
 
Last edited:
I've seen it happen before or similar. Usually it is a natural reaction to follow though with the stroke. The ball counts, but he shouldn't feel good about it.
If player had time to stop,or did stop,,and then followed through. He needs to be taken out to the woodshed and taught a lesson.
Some people take advantange of the rules. Why makes no sense. Its like buying a trophie at a garage sale and acting like you earned it!!!
I was playing in a Valley State team event. Opponent,,had no shot ,,CB in the middle of table, and he touched it with stick. Moving it an inch or so with no other balls around. I stepped up grabbed the cue,,it was a obvious BIH. He yells FOUL!! Because I didnt ask if it was BIH. Called ref and he was correct. He now had BIH and won the game!
I was pissed,, but we beat them. Short time later,,, playing another match. We hear some people yelling a few tables away and notice it involves this same person. So I go over ,,,and yep!!! He did it again to someone else. I told the team,,, he did it to me too,,earlier. There was almost a throw down right there.
It's dishonest B.S,,,, playing the rules to win.
 
Neil said:
If the shooter did not have a reasonable time to stop his stroke when the foul was called, I would just call it a foul and spot the ball. If he had time to stop his stroke, but shot anyways, it would be unsportsmanship conduct. In any case, the ball pocketed does not count.
Click to expand...

I go with this one.

Fred
 
Neil said:
7.13 Illegally Pocketed Balls – Spotting Requirements
All illegally pocketed balls are spotted, but spotting is delayed until the shooter’s inning
ends. If you score the last ball remaining on the table but have not yet won the game, any
illegally pocketed balls being held for spotting are then spotted at once and your inning
continues.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but I believe these are bank pool rules
 
I guess the way I interpret the rules is that in 8 ball the ball would be returned to its position before the shot. Not spotted. No point for player b.

The intentional/deliberate foul issue is the important one. I don't know if player b subscribes to the school of thought "I can only foul once per shot"
Sure, if he misses his ball completely (stripe or solid) and then scratches the fouls do not accumulate. But if he misses his shot and then stops the cue from breaking out a cluster it becomes a deliberate foul and much more serious.
I dont know player b's intention shooting after the foul. If he did it deliberately it is a serious foul and if he has been up to similar play throughout the match and been warned, he may have forfeited the game, the match and his prize money.
 
Celtic said:
Yeah but you don't get to shoot twice. He fouled, that was the end of his turn. But he then after he fouled AND the foul was called proceeded to shoot and pocket a ball. In no way does the ball he pocketed AFTER he had already fouled and lost his turn count.

Otherwise we get the next post on this "OK so we are playing for the trip, last game, our player needs to win 10-5 and we win the trip. The player on the other team is at the table, he has 4 balls down and is hooked on an open shot, he nudges the ball forward on a clear foul out to an open position and quickly fires his 5th ball in, our player attempts to call a foul but their player kicks him square in the nuts and then fires the 6th ball in, our player squeeks "foul" from the ground, their player goes "HUH? oh your right, sorry did I bump into ya?" The league operator said the balls down on the foul counted, we won the game 10-6 and lost the trip."

The point? You cannot allow people to foul and THEN make a ball by shooting again, if you do it can be abused all to hell. You can combo in a ball on an illegal shot and that ball will stay down, but you cannot hit the cueball and then hit it a second time and have a potted ball count.
Click to expand...

I'm figuring that the fouling player is not an anti-social douche and that he/she touched the cue on their last warm-up stroke & then shot.
 
Many times during safety battles in 8 ball games I have directly shot in my opponents ball or my opponent has directly shot in mine. These are balls illegally pocked as a result of a foul. They are not spotted. Illegally pocketed balls are not spotted in 8 ball.

To me player b's inning at the table ended when he stroked into the cue ball and failed to pocket a ball or drive one to the rail.
I cant imagine not being able to stop myself from continuing to shoot after bumping the cue ball on a warm up stroke.
Shooting the cue after the foul was a deliberate action. To me that is an unsportsmanlike deliberate foul.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top