What would you do? Barbox 8-ball

BWTadpole

BWTadpole

The Nitcracker
Silver Member
First off, I'd like to say: WOO!!! Post 500!!! Thanks to AZ and the community for making this possible! :p

Here's a situation that came up for me this weekend at the ACS Illinois tournament. It was a clutch game, one of the only times the entire weekend where I had completely no idea what to do. And there are two different situations during the same game that were a little questionable to me. I won't say what I did right away, because I'm not admitting that I did anything right. I'm just looking to see what other people would do, so maybe I can learn something.

Here's position 1. I'm stripes, and he just pocketed a ball in the side and played safe to here. Remember, this is a barbox. I looked to see what would happen if I gave him BIH. The 2 passes the 11 allllll the way down into the bottom right corner by the 8. And there's enough distance between the cue and 2 with BIH to make it a high-percentage straight-in with who I'm playing. I can safely assume my opponent would get out if he made the 2. I can't hit the 11 directly, and kicking to the short rail is a guaranteed scratch. (But I know someone won't read this part and tell me to kick to the short rail anyway...) What do you do? (1)

CueTable Help



Then a few shots later, here's the new layout, again with me shooting. Again, this is a barbox, so the proportions are not quite right. The bank is VERY questionable. What do you do? (2)

CueTable Help

 
In situation 2, I would do one of two things:

1) Hit the 11 with some low-left english on the cue ball to send the 11 away from the two and try to stick the cue ball on top of the 2. I'd be less likely to try this though.

or 2) Put some low on the cue ball and kill the speed, hitting the 11 away from the 2 and positioning the cue ball against the back rail behind the 2. Your opponent could try kicking at the 2 to make it, but position on the 8 isn't guaranteed.

I'd be interested to see what other people would do as well.
 
Shot 2 I would prob kick the 11 ball in, looks like its pretty standard angle and with the 2ball there you have a big pocket.

As for shot 1, I cant visualize this that well on the computer, but initial thought would be to kick behind the 11 softly trying to tie up the 2/11 and not allow the 2ball to be made in the top left corner.
 
Pray.............
Really though its hard to say looking at this setups. The little details are missing. Like can you see the 11 at all? Is there room to spin into it from either rail? I'm going to guess you kicked into it and left it on the bottom rail and put the cue ball to close to the 2 to make.
 
On the first shot, I may try to something like this. Kick at your ball off the long rail just hard enough to make your ball combo into his and make his ball go to the top long rail. Just watch out for the ticky scratch. Don't forget to pray.

CueTable Help



On the second shot, I would try something like this. It's a longshot, but you're in deep doo doo right now, so you have not much to lose. More than getting your ball in front of his, I would make absolutely sure that the cue ball stops as close to the bottom long rail as possible. It makes shaping the 8-ball very difficult. Don't forget to pray.

CueTable Help

 
For shot 1, I know you said that it was a guaranteed scratch but this is what I see as an option based on the layout of the balls in the diagram:

Slow roll to the short rail, with intention of thinning the 11-ball. 11-ball barely moves... CB ends up at/near the point. Make sure there's enough speed to al least tap the point after grazing the 11-ball.

CueTable Help

 
The first scenario stinks. IMO, I'm losing here about 80% of the time, maybe more. Moving the 8-ball (as Neil suggests) would definitely be racing through my mind simply because it will provide me with one more opportunity at the table and who knows? Maybe he'll mess up his next safety. The other option I'd consider (though I'd prefer seeing this on an actual table than on a diagram) is to kick behind the 11-ball FIRM with the intent of bringing the cueball to the other side of the table. I'm hoping for a near complete rearrangement and maybe I won't leave a shot or at least a tough shot. The last thing I want to do is give up BIH or leave the cueball with a clear shot on a nearby 2ball. Anyway, if I think I can separate the balls, I might try it.

CueTable Help



The second shot, although I do think Tx Poolnut's idea is worth merit, I can't argue with the simplicity of Neil's shot. If you nail it, he's pretty screwed. If you don't, he still has to come up with a shot to get you. I'm probably going Neil's way each and every time unless I'm uncomfortable about a table-roll or something. If there's a roll, I might consider Tx Poolnut's idea because it allows for a bit of speed but with a twist - I'd probably play it with no english and try to get the cueball to settle behind the 8-ball. Once again, this is a shot I'd have to see on a table rather than a diagram so my final decision would need to be at the table.

CueTable Help

 
Txpoolnut hit the first one on the head. Jude hit the second one. Those are what my first thoughts where when seeing the layout. Or maybe a stop shot on the 11 in the 2nd sceneraio depending on how the 2 lays. If its bankable then no way. But if its not then its a viable option, because if you over or under hit it in judes scenario its a sellout for sure.
 
In situation number 1 I am pretty sure that I would lay the 8 on the side rail and see what he can do. You are in deep trouble so take a hard kick behind it and hoping for a good roll might be okay as well.
I prefer making him play the safe and then me taking a kick to win.

Situation 2... I see no reason not to take the bank. Its a bar box and from that angle the pocket is as big as LA.
I am not letting my opponnet kick to a hung up ball on a barbox unless I can really lock him down and there are more balls in the way.

With the bank I am winning 70-80% without giving my opponnet a chance to win.
 
frankncali said:
In situation number 1 I am pretty sure that I would lay the 8 on the side rail and see what he can do. You are in deep trouble so take a hard kick behind it and hoping for a good roll might be okay as well.
I prefer making him play the safe and then me taking a kick to win.

Situation 2... I see no reason not to take the bank. Its a bar box and from that angle the pocket is as big as LA.
I am not letting my opponnet kick to a hung up ball on a barbox unless I can really lock him down and there are more balls in the way.

With the bank I am winning 70-80% without giving my opponnet a chance to win.
Click to expand...


I don't know why but when I imagined the shot, I imagined a Diamond Smart table with fairly tight pockets. Yes, if you're playing on buckets, you have to bank in the second scenario. However, given the location of the 8ball and alll the bad stuff that can happen, I don't mind watching my opponent try to kick his last ball in.
 
BWTadpole said:
First off, I'd like to say: WOO!!! Post 500!!! Thanks to AZ and the community for making this possible! :p

Here's a situation that came up for me this weekend at the ACS Illinois tournament. It was a clutch game, one of the only times the entire weekend where I had completely no idea what to do. And there are two different situations during the same game that were a little questionable to me. I won't say what I did right away, because I'm not admitting that I did anything right. I'm just looking to see what other people would do, so maybe I can learn something.

Here's position 1. I'm stripes, and he just pocketed a ball in the side and played safe to here. Remember, this is a barbox. I looked to see what would happen if I gave him BIH. The 2 passes the 11 allllll the way down into the bottom right corner by the 8. And there's enough distance between the cue and 2 with BIH to make it a high-percentage straight-in with who I'm playing. I can safely assume my opponent would get out if he made the 2. I can't hit the 11 directly, and kicking to the short rail is a guaranteed scratch. (But I know someone won't read this part and tell me to kick to the short rail anyway...) What do you do? (1)

CueTable Help



Then a few shots later, here's the new layout, again with me shooting. Again, this is a barbox, so the proportions are not quite right. The bank is VERY questionable. What do you do? (2)

CueTable Help

Click to expand...


I suck at pool but on the first scenario I would kick into the eleven-ball making sure to hit it thin enough on the non-pocket side so as to not scratch, and hit it at a speed that sends the two-ball onto the opposite long rail between the upper left corner pocket and the side pocket.

In the second scenario, I am very comfortable at banking the eleven-ball back into the lower right corner pocket (realizing of course that missing this shot is a total sell-out). The eleven being off the rail enough here is the key. I am fairly successful at these shots. I feel that my odds of making this shot exceed the chance of shooting a successful safety.

Now everyone on this site can understand why I NEVER play for money :o.

Maniac
 
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