What would you do? Break ferrule

sk8ordie

sk8ordie

HTTR!
Silver Member
A friend gave me his break shaft with a cracked phenolic tip/ferrule combo. It was done by another cue person in town and it split down the middle, not real bad but notable.
I started turning it down until it fell apart exposing the tenon and leftover phenolic (pictured). Tenon is just shy of 1/2 an inch and shaft is at 28" joint to end of shaft. Only time I've seen this is on a Players J/B.
My question is; (1) is that too much Phenolic that made it weak?
(2) should I leave the tenon alone and replace phenolic ferrule with less material or should I cut the tenon off and replace it with a new longer tenon to leave a 3/4 inch tenon and then replace phenolic?
Thank you for your help, Ron
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.....or 3, should I install a small phenolic ferrule and a break tip?


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I think I would go with trying to get the shaft as close to 29 inches even if it means replacing the tenon. I usually drill a small hole in the replacement ferule to eliminate hydraulic pressure when I epoxy the new tenon in. I really like the Samsara break tip over phenolic. As a player it seems I break as hard as phenolic but I have much better cue ball control and am able to "squat" the cue ball more consistently. I am sure there are other highly compressed leather tips out there that will do the same but I am happy with the Samsara. To answer your question on too much phenolic causing weakness...usually I have found when phenolic fails it is because the fit of the phenolic uniferule was not machined to very close tolerances in relationship to the tenon. The perfect fit on the inside sidewalls and tenon length usually will not leave room for hydraulic pressure to develop and blow out the uniferule.
 
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Personally I would like to replace the tenon for a longer one but I'm not sure if that's the correct or best solution. When I do repair work, I like to find out why it failed and usual the tenon isn't seated correctly or the materials too thin but, I can't figure out why it split down the middle like this. You can see where chalk has gotten into the crack over time.
 
The ferrule cracked because it's of 'flat-lam' mtrl; appears to be canvas.
Rolled & molded phenolic wouldn't have split like that.

Leave the shaft's length as is. Extending the ferrule only puts additional leverage on the tenon.
Extending the tenon doesn't eliminate that condition; it exaggerates it.

Go with option #3
Clean-up the tenon, install a 3/8-1/2" ferrule and put a tip on it. You're done.
Were you asked to do anything else ?
 
Replace the tennon, make some nice threads, skip the phenolic and use G10. You don`t need that long ferrule, a half inch ferrule is perfect for break and jump shafts.
 
I can only imagine the deflection from that ferrule.
With that kind of material, you might think about mounting a router and using 1/4 4 flute carbide end mill in turning that sucker down till you get close to final size .
I don't go more than 1/4 of cap on synthetic ferrules .That is plenty fat .
3/16 is enough for me .
Keep the tenon for liability reasons. You cut that off and plug it up opens a can of worms .
 
KJ Cues said:
The ferrule cracked because it's of 'flat-lam' mtrl; appears to be canvas.
Rolled & molded phenolic wouldn't have split like that.

Leave the shaft's length as is. Extending the ferrule only puts additional leverage on the tenon.
Extending the tenon doesn't eliminate that condition; it exaggerates it.

Go with option #3
Clean-up the tenon, install a 3/8-1/2" ferrule and put a tip on it. You're done.
Were you asked to do anything else ?
Click to expand...

No sir, just asked me to fix/replace it. I was afraid of replacing the tenon like Joey said because I was afraid it would make the shaft weaker, it being a break cue. I was thinking the short ferrule with added tip like Mezz has and keep the tenon after cleaning it up.
I found out he bought it like this and it's a Fury J/b which I thought came with graphite. I don't know Furys original tenon length on their break cue though.

Thank you everyone for your help, I really appreciate it.
 
Install a phen tube with room on top.
Make a T shaped phenolic tip out of a 9/16 rod.
Epoxy down.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I can only imagine the deflection from that ferrule.
With that kind of material, you might think about mounting a router and using 1/4 4 flute carbide end mill in turning that sucker down till you get close to final size .
I don't go more than 1/4 of cap on synthetic ferrules .That is plenty fat .
3/16 is enough for me .
Keep the tenon for liability reasons. You cut that off and plug it up opens a can of worms .
Click to expand...

Deflection on a break cue? Help me understand why that is a consideration.
Thanks
Gary
 
JoeyInCali said:
Install a phen tube with room on top.
Make a T shaped phenolic tip out of a 9/16 rod.
Epoxy down.
Click to expand...

Great idea. I've been wanting to try something like that when I did a hard material or phenolic tip on the same ferrule material. Seen a cool thread on here about that.

As far as the deflection issue, I had a BW J/B cue and it had a 1-1/2 phenolic tip/ferrule put on it before I bought it and no matter where I pointed it, it deflected horribly, which I never thought would matter much on a break cue. After breaking with a Predator, OB Rift and now a Mezz, I know there's a difference.

Not turning this into a deflection issue though, I just wanted to know what the best solution to correcting this problem would be. Thank you everyone.
 
The other option is to have the phenolic laminated like a tip is laminated, not like a laminated shaft if that can make sense. The other option is what KJ suggested and that is radially rolled phenolic. Phenolics are strongest when in compression, not shear. The ferrule/tip you are repairing failed because the forces of hitting the ball put the grain of that material into shear and not compression.
Neil
 
GBCues said:
Deflection on a break cue? Help me understand why that is a consideration.
Thanks
Gary
Click to expand...

I think he is referring to that huge chunk of phenolic where a maple tenon should have been.... deflection was my first thought too.

Remind me never to buy from whoever made this cue in the first place please.



I would ask the customer if he doesn't mind a shorter ferrule. I doubt half an inch will matter to most, and it will be a stronger business end because of it. Good feedback here so far.
 
GBCues said:
Deflection on a break cue? Help me understand why that is a consideration.
Click to expand...
For me, it's a big one, since I sometimes fail to hit dead center on the cue ball. It's a habit I have to correct, but until then, lower deflection keeps my cue ball on the table if I miss hit it.
 
galipeau said:
I think he is referring to that huge chunk of phenolic where a maple tenon should have been.... deflection was my first thought too.

Remind me never to buy from whoever made this cue in the first place please.



I would ask the customer if he doesn't mind a shorter ferrule. I doubt half an inch will matter to most, and it will be a stronger business end because of it. Good feedback here so far.
Click to expand...

Well, the maker is Fury but who knows what the last cue smith did to this thing. I found another Fury j/b cue and it had a smaller ferrule/tip combo but I don't know whet the tenon looked like. I know Players and a few others use a very short ferrule with a phenolic tip glued on.
I went the shorter, better phenolic material route as KJ stated because I was scared to replace the tenon as it could cause worst issues as Joey stated. If this fails, I will do a short ferrule and glue a tip on. Thanks everyone, Ron
 
I see this all the time.....I fix them all the time...... cut off the tenon and drill the shaft in about an 1 1/2 and glue in a new maple tenon and thread it. Glue on a phenolic combo tip.

It won't break.... don't worry about deflection..... it's a break stick.............NO ONE will ever notice any difference except it will break great...........

simple fix........... try not to over think it

Kim
 
Sheldon said:
For me, it's a big one, since I sometimes fail to hit dead center on the cue ball. It's a habit I have to correct, but until then, lower deflection keeps my cue ball on the table if I miss hit it.
Click to expand...

Sheldon, Galipeau, Sk8ordie and all, thanks for your comments to my question about deflection.
Gary
 
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