What would you do?

barboxbanks

barboxbanks

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This shot came up in our league play Saturday afternoon. Just a quick heads up, Safety play is not allowed, you must call a pocket and make an honest attempt.

The object ball was laying directly behind the 8 ball about an 1/8 inch away. The cue ball was about 4 inches from the object ball, slightly off to the right. This was on a 7ft Valley bar box, not a 9ft table. WEI table provided below (it is a screenshot as the table will not properly display on here)

table1.jpg
 
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I'd aim 1 diamond to the right of the top side pocket and send the CB 4 rails behind the one. Just call your ball in the top-left pocket (total BS). Nobody needs to know you're not really trying to make/hit your ball--- you're only leaving them as screwed as you, but without the argument.
 
The only shot I see here to actually make the ball is to kick at the 1 and play a bank. The best way to kick at the 1 is to go three cushions, miss it because the cue ball went too long and have the cue ball end up at the other end of the table. No one can blame you for missing the balls entirely as long as you come pretty close.

Another option is to try to double kiss the 1 ball with follow. That is, shoot nearly straight at it so the cue ball follows and pushes it ahead and a little to the side maybe towards a side pocket. If you use the right speed, the 8 ball will be left frozen to the left end rail and the cue ball will follow to the other end of the table.

But I think Randy is mostly right. I used to play in a league with the same rule and all of the better players really did try for something on every shot. It was amusing to watch the hackers cleverly "try" for a shot. Even if they left you nothing, they couldn't run out.
 
If we knowingly break the rules we are indeed cheating...whether our opponent knows or not....we know it.

My choice of shots:
Hit the 1 ball thin with side left trying to carom the 1 ball off of the 8 ball and bank in it the bottom side pocket. Hit the eight thin enough and soft enough that it travels no more than 12-13 diamonds...any further it might go in the bottom corner pocket.

I agree the rules are lame. However, if embraced they can train us to be better players. Shows us we can do things we would never try under normal rules and teaches us how to look ahead to try avoid this type of trap.

I will be giving this a go tonight! Thanks Barboxbanks!
 
These rules force a player to say one thing and do another. It's not cheating... maybe just constructive execution. Any rules that include INTENT and HONEST TRY in them are asking for trouble. Any time safeties aren't allowed...just miss in such a way that leaves your opponent safe. Don't like it...blame the rulez.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
 
SpiderWebComm said:
These rules force a player to say one thing and do another. It's not cheating... maybe just constructive execution. Any rules that include INTENT and HONEST TRY in them are asking for trouble. Any time safeties aren't allowed...just miss in such a way that leaves your opponent safe. Don't like it...blame the rulez.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
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Don't forget to break down the part of my post where I agree with you. Yes. The rules are unenforceable. But as they are, shooting without intent to pocket the ball is by definition against the rules in this scenario.

Have a nice day! :smile:
 
barboxbanks said:
This shot came up in our league play Saturday afternoon. Just a quick heads up, Safety play is not allowed, you must call a pocket and make an honest attempt.

The object ball was laying directly behind the 8 ball about an 1/8 inch away. The cue ball was about 4 inches from the object ball, slightly off to the right. This was on a 7ft Valley bar box, not a 9ft table. WEI table provided below (it is a screenshot as the table will not properly display on here)

table1.jpg
Click to expand...

The 1 ball can be caromed one rail into the side pocket off the eight. Putting low spin on the Qball will transfer to high on the 1.

In the shot I set up on my table, I played the 1 into the side one rail (bottom on your drawing) using low right. It probably could have been made easier using low left which would transfer right spin onto the 1 ball.

John
 
While the rule requires you to make an honest attempt to try and make your ball there is nothing in that same rule that prevents you from trying to leave the cue ball in as difficult a position as possible to make the 8 ball in case you miss the object ball which is highly likely.
 
JLD said:
While the rule requires you to make an honest attempt to try and make your ball there is nothing in that same rule that prevents you from trying to leave the cue ball in as difficult a position as possible to make the 8 ball in case you miss the object ball which is highly likely.
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Agreed! It makes for an interesting game.

I setup the shot and made it on the first try and had shape on the 8. I refuse to give it another go as lightning only strikes once! ;)
 
I was curious if you guys would see what I did and the majority of you did, which was the bank to the bottom side.

The person who played it however had a different idea (which I think was 100% luck, given his known playing ability) by calling the bottom right pocket closest to the cue ball. You're probably saying "...huh?" just like I did when he called it. Anyway he played a carom off the 8 ball by cutting the object ball to the left, which sent it into the top rail, back across table and sitting about a diamond to diamond and a half in front of the pocket. The 8 ball comes off the top rail, banking into the one and pocketing it. I about choked on my own tongue when it dropped. Table below with ball paths to better explain.

EDIT: I got the memory of a goldfish, I completely forgot to post the WEI table with ball paths on here lol..

table2.jpg
 
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Ratta said:
lmao :-)
You got my vote on this^^
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I am not selling anything but... ;)

I play in a league with these rules and have for about 5+ years. It is a league where everyone gets paid about the same. The only difference is if you win you don't pay dues for the night. Anyways... I have learned more about 8 ball under these rules than I ever would have thought was possible. I like ya'll disliked the idea of not being able to duck. But 5 years ago I would have never been able to succeed on this shot like I did last night on the first try. These rules push you to try things you, or any sane person, would never try in a normal game. It has added another dimension to my game.

That said...for the cash let's use BCA rules or something similar :thumbup:
 
barboxbanks said:
I was curious if you guys would see what I did and the majority of you did, which was the bank to the bottom side.

The person who played it however had a different idea (which I think was 100% luck, given his known playing ability) by calling the bottom right pocket closest to the cue ball. You're probably saying "...huh?" just like I did when he called it. Anyway he played a carom off the 8 ball by cutting the object ball to the left, which sent it into the top rail, back across table and sitting about a diamond to diamond and a half in front of the pocket. The 8 ball comes off the top rail, banking into the one and pocketing it. I about choked on my own tongue when it dropped. Table below with ball paths to better explain.

EDIT: I got the memory of a goldfish, I completely forgot to post the WEI table with ball paths on here lol..

table2.jpg
Click to expand...

Actually, I thought about that kiss-bank into the lower right corner as an option but wasn't sure if you could muster up enough angle from the kiss. I guess he couldn't but got lucky with the 8 giving him help. Funny shot!

We used to play a 4-player rotation partners game for money years ago. Partners were determined by the first two people who made money balls --- 1,5,8, etc. And until partners were determined, no safe shots were allowed. Made for a very interesting game and I learned a lot of shots that way. If the same player kept pocketing the money balls, we could go nearly the whole game sometimes without playing a safe shot. It was really fun and creative.
 
so it would be up to the other player to decide if you made a fair and honest attempt to make the ball? i hope there are not a lot of douches in that league!
 
champ2107 said:
so it would be up to the other player to decide if you made a fair and honest attempt to make the ball? i hope there are not a lot of douches in that league!
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Of course not...

Player is the ref. We chase 'em around the bar with a broken bottle if they git out of line! Great family fun I tell ya!
 
champ2107 said:
so it would be up to the other player to decide if you made a fair and honest attempt to make the ball? i hope there are not a lot of douches in that league!
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The way it works is like this.. If you as a player call or get called on something you and your opponent must discuss/work it out first. If you cannot come to an agreement, it is then the team captains job to step in and try to resolve the situation. If the no resolution can be made, you put in a call to the league president (which MUST be active on a team in the league) and they are to make the final standing decision.

There has been more than a few fights, arguments etc.. but we have a strict policy and usually those people are either suspended for a year or banned for good.
 
FranCrimi said:
Actually, I thought about that kiss-bank into the lower right corner as an option but wasn't sure if you could muster up enough angle from the kiss. I guess he couldn't but got lucky with the 8 giving him help. Funny shot!

We used to play a 4-player rotation partners game for money years ago. Partners were determined by the first two people who made money balls --- 1,5,8, etc. And until partners were determined, no safe shots were allowed. Made for a very interesting game and I learned a lot of shots that way. If the same player kept pocketing the money balls, we could go nearly the whole game sometimes without playing a safe shot. It was really fun and creative.
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Well the reason I say it was 100% perfect luck based on his playing ability alone, is he went ahead and boasted after making the shot that it was the way he intended to play it. Which may have well been, but he boasted as if it was a run of the mill shot for his caliber of play, which I would say is a high D, low C at most.
 
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