The rule says I may not that I should, and it's not getting away with anything nothing illegal has happened. That's what you don't seem to be able to get through your head. Play by the rules you shouldn't have any problems unless you want other people to play by your fantasy rules, that might cause a problem.
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What would you do?
- Thread starter TheMarsMan
- Start date
The rule says I may not that I should, and it's not getting away with anything nothing illegal has happened. That's what you don't seem to be able to get through your head. Play by the rules you shouldn't have any problems unless you want other people to play by your fantasy rules, that might cause a problem.
No, that is where the disconnect lies. You KNOW the ball IS frozen so you in fact ARE shooting a foul and playing it off as good. It is not just the ref or the opponent who can judge a ball as frozen, the shooter can as well.
In Mr. Mars' example you looked at the ball, you saw it was frozen, and you played it as if it was not anyhow. So you KNEW that the shot could not be made legally, the rules also state you need to hit a rail after contact, and this shot does not do that and you KNOW it does not and you are purposely shooting it anyhow.
In both cases you are purposely shooting a shot that you KNOW does not meet the guidelines of a non-foul and playing it off as a good hit. And in both cases you are using a technicality in the rules to your benefit to get away with it. There is nothing legal about shooting a ball that you KNOW is frozen without catching a rail and then calling that shot legal.
Shooting a frozen ball and not catching a rail after contact is a foul. If you KNOW that ball is frozen and you shoot it anyhow and pretend it was off the rail it was cheating because the shooter themselves are one of the 3 people in a match that are SUPPOSED to be calling that stuff in a legit fashion, and to not do so IS cheating period.
Who comes up with this nonsense:
Quote from your post:
"because the shooter themselves are one of the 3 people in a match that are SUPPOSED to be calling that stuff in a legit fashion, and to not do so IS cheating period.[/QUOTE
SUPPOSED TO------REALLY?
Read the rules, it plain and simple, doesn't say this anywhere in them,
show me where it says this, you can't because it's not there.
And as far as you say "playing it off as a good hit", it is a good hit if the ball hasn't been called frozen. My advice to you is stop making up your own rules, get up off your ass and if a ball is close to a rail check it and if it's touching call it frozen. Don't worry no ones going to question your character for playing by the rules! Or are they?
The rules say that I may call it frozen. Not that I should call it frozen, or
any other fantasy that you may come up with, sorry.
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And as far as you say "playing it off as a good hit", it is a good hit if the ball hasn't been called frozen. My advice to you is stop making up your own rules, get up off your ass and if a ball is close to a rail check it and if it's touching call it frozen. Don't worry no ones going to question your character for playing by the rules! Or are they?
The rules say that I may call it frozen. Not that I should call it frozen, or
any other fantasy that you may come up with, sorry.
No, its not. If you hit a ball frozen against the rail and don't contact another rail, it is a foul by
8.4 Driven to a Rail
A ball is said to be driven to a rail if it is not touching that rail and then touches that rail. A ball touching at the start of a shot (said to be “frozen” to the rail) is not considered driven to that rail unless it leaves the rail and returns. A ball that is pocketed or driven off the table is also considered to have been driven to a rail. A ball is assumed not to be frozen to any rail unless it is declared frozen by the referee, the shooter, or the opponent. See also Regulation 27, Calling Frozen Balls.
6.3 No Rail after Contact
If no ball is pocketed on a shot, the cue ball must contact an object ball, and after that contact at least one ball (cue ball or any object ball) must be driven to a rail, or the shot is a foul. (See 8.4 Driven to a Rail.)
Of course, if the shooter has chosen to hide the fact that he has fouled, the opponent has no right to call the foul after the fact. That does not change the fact that a foul has occured, its just an issue of who can enforce it. In this case, the shooter himself is the only one that can enforce the rule.
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I was in a 9ball event and it was cueball fouls only.My opponent knocked
a ball that was behind the cueball first and then hit the cueball.I called foul and lost the debate,so I told the TD that if I have a cluster of balls
I'm going to break it out with my hand or my arm(by accident of course)
and since its cueball foul only mt opponent would have to try and remember were to respot the balls.There's always a loophole in every law and every rule and if I guy is going to pull a dick move in a game of pool,then chances are the guy is probably a dick outside of pool.
a ball that was behind the cueball first and then hit the cueball.I called foul and lost the debate,so I told the TD that if I have a cluster of balls
I'm going to break it out with my hand or my arm(by accident of course)
and since its cueball foul only mt opponent would have to try and remember were to respot the balls.There's always a loophole in every law and every rule and if I guy is going to pull a dick move in a game of pool,then chances are the guy is probably a dick outside of pool.
A foul is a foul is a foul no matter what the debate is,its still a foul.
If you choose to shoot it then your a bird who should get the shit beat out of you for cheating(and it is cheating).The people who are on the other side of the debate is just feeding into it knowing full well its a shitty move.
If you choose to shoot it then your a bird who should get the shit beat out of you for cheating(and it is cheating).The people who are on the other side of the debate is just feeding into it knowing full well its a shitty move.
No, its not. If you hit a ball frozen against the rail and don't contact another rail, it is a foul by
Of course, if the shooter has chosen to hide the fact that he has fouled, the opponent has no right to call the foul after the fact. That does not change the fact that a foul has occured, its just an issue of who can enforce it. In this case, the shooter himself is the only one that can enforce the rule.
Read the second to last line of rule 8.4.
A ball is assumed not to be frozen to any rail unless it is declared frozen.
there is no foul; unless it's declared frozen, sorry those are the rules.
I was in a 9ball event and it was cueball fouls only.My opponent knocked
a ball that was behind the cueball first and then hit the cueball.I called foul and lost the debate,so I told the TD that if I have a cluster of balls
I'm going to break it out with my hand or my arm(by accident of course)
and since its cueball foul only mt opponent would have to try and remember were to respot the balls.There's always a loophole in every law and every rule and if I guy is going to pull a dick move in a game of pool,then chances are the guy is probably a dick outside of pool.
So it's not only the rule we're talking about in this thread there are lots of rules you seem to have a problem with, hope that works out for you.
your 100%right on this,but the original question from the OP wasRead the second to last line of rule 8.4.
A ball is assumed not to be frozen to any rail unless it is declared frozen.
there is no foul; unless it's declared frozen, sorry those are the rules.
would you shoot a shot that you knew was really a foul?So would you or no?
My point was if I hit all the balls with my hand it wouldn't be a foul by the rules but it still would of made me a a--hole.So it's not only the rule we're talking about in this thread there are lots of rules you seem to have a problem with, hope that works out for you.
A foul is a foul is a foul no matter what the debate is,its still a foul.
If you choose to shoot it then your a bird who should get the shit beat out of you for cheating(and it is cheating).The people who are on the other side of the debate is just feeding into it knowing full well its a shitty move.
Where do you come up with this cr*p? There is no foul if the ball isn't called frozen pryor to the shot, that's what the rules say. Just follow the rules you'll be alright.
your 100%right on this,but the original question from the OP was
would you shoot a shot that you knew was really a foul?So would you or no?
WOW, like I said, and like the rules say no foul has been committed if the ball hasn't been called frozen before the shot. The rules are clear on this.
The answer to your question is I don't know that it's really a foul, unless it's
called frozen first, there you go there's your answer.
I'm curious what your answer would be to my question from before.Would you shoot a shot that you knew was really a foul?Where do you come up with this cr*p? There is no foul if the ball isn't called frozen pryor to the shot, that's what the rules say. Just follow the rules you'll be alright.
Its either a yes or a no.If you could get away with it would you shoot it?WOW, like I said, and like the rules say no foul has been committed if the ball hasn't been called frozen before the shot. The rules are clear on this.
The answer to your question is I don't know that it's really a foul, unless it's
called frozen first, there you go there's your answer.
My point was if I hit all the balls with my hand it wouldn't be a foul by the rules but it still would of made me a a--hole.
In most tournaments even when you're playing cue ball fouls only, if you move more than one object ball it's still a foul.
This tour that runs for the past few years and there rules are cueball fouls only.If I hit 4other balls after the cueball it still wouldn't be a foul by cueball fouls only.I thought the rule stunk myself but I didn't win the arguement when it happened to me.In most tournaments even when you're playing cue ball fouls only, if you move more than one object ball it's still a foul.
Read the second to last line of rule 8.4.
A ball is assumed not to be frozen to any rail unless it is declared frozen.
there is no foul; unless it's declared frozen, sorry those are the rules.
Umm...Maybe you should read the rule.
A ball is assumed not to be frozen to any rail unless it is declared frozen.
there is no foul; unless it's declared frozen, sorry those are the rules.
The key word is assumed. It doesn't say that a ball is not frozen unless called frozen. In other words, a ball must contact another rail if the ball is frozen, whether or not it is assumed to be off the rail. If not, it is a foul by 6.3 No rail after contact. The assumption part comes into play only where there is a dispute I.e. one player says his opponent fouled and the shooter denies it. This does not change the fact that a foul occurred, just the settlement of the argument.
your 100%right on this,but the original question from the OP was
would you shoot a shot that you knew was really a foul?So would you or no?
The premise of your question is false I do not know that it's a foul, in fact I know it's not.
If I shoot a ball that is not called frozen the rules say it is not a foul.
If you call a ball frozen then of coarse I would not shoot it because
that would be a foul, also just as the rules state it.
Does that answer your question? I play by the rules as they are, if they change the rules then I would abide by the new rules, it's simple.
Maybe you should read the rules. The rule says that a ball is assumed to not be frozen if not called as frozen. It doesn't say that a ball is not frozen if not called as frozen. This distinction is important because the rules say that a foul occurs based on what has happened rather than what is assumed to have happened which can often be two very different events.
The rule does NOT say that a foul has occurred when a ball is assumed not frozen. The rule specifies that the ball must be called frozen otherwise it is assumed not frozen therefore there is no foul.
You can't possibly be so completely unable to understand the simple one or two sentences that delineate the rule.
You and a couple of others here are deluded and getting upset that others aren't sharing your delusion. Calling others "immoral" and "unethical" for playing according to the rules of pool is flat out stupid and worse. They deserve to have their opponent leap up everytime they shoot a ball near a rail and shout, "That ball was FROZEN!!! THAT'S A FOUL!!!"
Maybe it the way I read the OP's question but I thought he was asking if my opponent didn't notice something would I shoot a shot knowing it was really a bad hit?I'm not saying you would cheat,butThe premise of your question is false I do not know that it's a foul, in fact I know it's not.
If I shoot a ball that is not called frozen the rules say it is not a foul.
If you call a ball frozen then of coarse I would not shoot it because
that would be a foul, also just as the rules state it.
Does that answer your question? I play by the rules as they are, if they change the rules then I would abide by the new rules, it's simple.
I would hope nobody would take a shot knowing full well its a bad hit.
I'm guessing by the poll taken,most people read the question the same way I did.Not a big deal, just wondering.
Umm...Maybe you should read the rule.
A ball is assumed not to be frozen to any rail unless it is declared frozen.
there is no foul; unless it's declared frozen, sorry those are the rules.
The key word is assumed. It doesn't say that a ball is not frozen unless called frozen. In other words, a ball must contact another rail if the ball is frozen, whether or not it is assumed to be off the rail. If not, it is a foul by 6.3 No rail after contact. The assumption part comes into play only where there is a dispute I.e. one player says his opponent fouled and the shooter denies it. This does not change the fact that a foul occurred, just the settlement of the argument.
Go ahead and read anything you want into the rules, but when you play in a tournament and this happens, I don't think they are going to let you pull out your home made rules rule book. LOL
Actually that's exactly what it says a ball is assumed not to be frozen,
unless it is declared frozen, so if you don't call it frozen and then try to call a foul you will have the call by a ref go against you every time. But then I'm sure you will try and explain to him that you are right and he is wrong. GOOD LUCK w/that!!!!!