What wrong with pool and how Bonus Ball is bringing it out loud and clear on here!

[dorabelle]

Take 10 mil and split it up between 100 of the top players and call it a day.

 

[Ghosst]

...but when anyone asks some questions they are an asshole and should just shut up and hope for the best.

Thanks for succinctly wrapping that up. You should seriously be the PR rep for Bonus Ball because it's the exact impression I've received from their staff so far without having to wade through 17 pages.

 

[JCIN]

This something I should have put in my post. When I seen your name where you posted I thought about it. You are the very one I was not referring to though may have looked that way. It's the ones who have no investment or put forth no risk in the sport other than throwing entry fees in tournaments they can't win. I very much appreciate and respect your contributions

I appreciate that and thank you.

I can get a little touchy sometimes.

I think there is a line between legitimate interest or curiosity and maliciously trying to hurt something by casting unfounded aspersions. So far I think its been pretty clean overall but several people have posted in various threads they think otherwise so I'm genuinely curious where others think that line is.

Also the fact that people are curious is an opportunity for BB to make a sale and generate more interest through productive interaction. It cuts both ways though. Its also an opportunity to step on your crank if you do it wrong.

 

[lfigueroa]

Hello all with respect and disappointment.

Allow me to start by saying this will be a long read and is only meant for me to say some stuff that goes on in my head. I am not looking for responses, negative or supportive, and with that in mind I will not be replying to any responses.

I am an average pool player, a mid level "B" player on my best of days. I do not work in the billiard industry and have no inside perspective.

I am a forum "lurker". I am on here daily, and have been for years just reading. I used to post, but stopped for no real reason other then it wasn't really my thing.

I have learned a lot on here. I have learned ways to behave as well as ways not to behave.

There are ALWAYS posts about whats wrong with pool. Let me help everyone out... WE are whats wrong with pool. By "we", I mean pool players as whole. not people who play pool, but POOL PLAYERS. We all know the difference. *For the record, I must include myself in that "WE".

I try to support PPV streams when feasible, however, sometimes it just isn't. I am more apt to watch when a favorite player is on.

How many of you try to duck PPV costs and watch on some jerk's channel who is mirroring the stream? REALLY? C'Mon!!!! I don't know whats worse, the person not paying for it, or the person allowing other people to watch it for free.

I would never watch a live pool PPV for free that someone is 3rd party broadcasting. That being said, I have been guilty of coming on the forums and checking updates on TAR matches that I didn't buy for whatever reason. And for that, I've always planned on sending Justin some money... but never did. He allowed me to sweat a live match in the TAR studio for no charge! I also planned on sending a thank you then, but never did. The best laid plans... For that matter, I'm sending him some money right now!

And how about all the guys not wanting to help people with their game? I'm all for paying dues, it's part of the curve, and needed, but all the people out there just trying to steal? I play everyone. EVERYONE! and if someone thinks I'm lying, "you've got action!" I walked up to one of the countries top one pocket players about a year and a half ago asking for a game. He had no idea who I was, or how I played. I told him there isn't a spot out there that I could win at. I think we settled on 13-5 for $20.00 a game (It could have been 20-5, and I knew this, but I wanted to play and learn). I told him under the condition he taught me something about the game. (I usually make that stipulation when giving up the nuts and more, so I take something more away then my own observations). He gave me opportunities (on purpose), and easily beat me out of $100.00. To be honest, I don't know if he told me anything or not. All I remember, is him saying that he think's "I'd be a good match for his friend and that we play about the same". I knew his a friend, a local hustler. How about that? I'm looking to learn, willing to pay, and take my lumps, and they just want to rob me! Haha. It happens all the time. Believe me, I'm no chump, and no sucker. I'm a student of the game, willing to pay dues, take my lumps... but wanting to learn on the way.

Now all this Bonus Ball debate. Watch it or don't. Support it or don't. But bash the game and the promoters efforts to no end? Why? You know what really gets me? Why all the posts about how it can sustain itself, or where the money gonna come from, etc. WHO CARES!? And why do they have to explain it to us? What difference does it make. They're doing it and trying it. If it works it works, if it fails it fails. It's not costing any of us anything! Will any of you drop $10 bucks at least once to help support a game (pool) we all love in one way or another?

What if someone came on here, and was vouched for by the administrator and the most respected members and asked everyone to donate $9.95 to go towards along shot, but a chance in helping build a future for our sport. Would you do it?

Another "For the record".... I'm trying to keep this unbiased, and come at it from a level area. I haven't read ALL the posts lately, but know things have gotten out of hand, and people have been offended. It's beyond childish! I can state for a fact, that someone on here, who's post and opinions I've come to enjoy and respect over the years, has downright offended a top pro, who happens to a be friend of mine. (not over Bonus Ball stuff). The player was offended by a post that in my opinion, and based on many other posts from the poster, was harmless. I guess the point I'm trying to make here, is that things can easily be taken out of context when all you see are the words. My girlfriend and i have resorted to stupid smiley faces after every questionable text so that the receiver knows the sender wasn't being a bi**h or an A****le! TAKE A BREATH PEOPLE! realize how easily things can be taken out of context when it's only written in print!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKbAEmvZyKQ

Enough on Bonus Ball... back to what else "WE" all do... How many of US try to help out the people in the bars banging away? No, not everyone. But what about the few who you can see may want to learn, but don't even know there's stuff to learn. Every try to tell them about local pool halls. Local pro's to watch or take lessons from? That there is more then just 8-ball? or for that matter, the real rules of 8-ball? Now I know you can't just walk up to someone and push things on them... but there is a way to do it. I wish someone grabbed me when I was a bar banger and thought I was a great player because I'd made the 8 on the break before. (true story, I really thought it meant I was good). But no, it wasn't until years later when I expanded on my passion on my own. With out the help from the people in the area, who I'd played in the bars that could have point me in the right direction, or even just any direction... but didn't.

I am sorry that this post is this long, and disorganized. I have had enough. WE'RE whats wrong with pool in america. "Parasites", as quoted by a pro. Like it or not, the majority of us here are.

You want pool in America to grow? Do something about it. Help a lesser player. Support a PPV stream. Bring people into your local poolrooms. Pool players are what gives pool a bad name and a tough time surveying. THe game itself is innocent. I for one wish everyone played!

-S

There's nothing wrong with pool. And personally, I'd guess that most here support the game in a myriad of ways.

BTW, this is a *discussion* forum. Running in here, spray painting your protest on a wall, and then running away is not cool.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

My one "complaint" for Bonus Ball is intended as a constructive criticsm....

Public Relations. It hasn't been handled well. And thats a shame. The folks behind this project need to have one voice, and one message. Information flow needs to be managed properly. No one involved should be allowed to speak publicly beyond generalizations....an example of how this works successfully is how the New England Patriots are run. No specific information is released that the management doesn't want released, and when a statement is made, it is carefully crafted to reflect positively on the organization.

Currently there are several different people with varying degrees of association with Bonus Ball, making statements. Statements about the players, about the delays, about lots of things. It's not controlled. And it should be. It casts a poor light on how things are being run, and that is a shame, because it doesn't have to be that way.

These folks are going to need good impressions in order to help make their product successful. Any kind of unneccessary poor public relations detracts from the goal.

(This situation is also true about how the ABP is/was run.)

Again, I hope the product succeeds. I also hope the folks running things get their collective "stuff" together.

Dub, you make a good point about speaking with one voice. The part I disagree with is not talking beyond generalizations. An audience needs to be provided specifics and, if those aren't available, a reasonable explanation for why they're not. If there is one solid truism in PR it is that in the absence of information, rumor, speculation, and innuendo will fill the vacuum. IOW, if you're not telling your story someone else will do it for you.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JAM]

Dub, you make a good point about speaking with one voice. The part I disagree with is not talking beyond generalizations. An audience needs to be provided specifics and, if those aren't available, a reasonable explanation for why they're not. If there is one solid truism in PR it is that in the absence of information, rumor, speculation, and innuendo will fill the vacuum. IOW, if you're not telling your story someone else will do it for you.

Lou Figueroa

AzBilliards really does need to include a Like button.

 

[justadub]

Dub, you make a good point about speaking with one voice. The part I disagree with is not talking beyond generalizations. An audience needs to be provided specifics and, if those aren't available, a reasonable explanation for why they're not. If there is one solid truism in PR it is that in the absence of information, rumor, speculation, and innuendo will fill the vacuum. IOW, if you're not telling your story someone else will do it for you.

Lou Figueroa

Very true, I agree completely.

I should have included something to that effect earlier. Having a Public Relations person would certainly address that, and help to contain the rumor mongering. I wasn't suggesting "no information", just controlled information.

 

[Neil]

Here's the way I see it...a lot of people say pool needs to be "fixed". I'm not so sure about that, but the pros do need a way to make a living at the game, not just the top 5 on the planet or so. What is going on, isn't working to well towards that goal. So, something different needs to be done.

BB is definitely something different. And huge attaboys to those "running it" for at least trying something. Will it work out for the pros? I don't have a clue. Hopefully, it will. Sure, lots of "new" things didn't work out so well in the past. At least people tried. As long as people keep trying, maybe eventually someone will come up with something that does work. Maybe BB is that thing?? Only time will tell. If it fails, then others can have something else to look at that didn't work, and why it didn't work, so they can then come up with something else without making the same mistakes as those before them.

Is BB going to be the instant salvation for pool? No. No one said it would. But, given time, who knows? For now, they have my respect for at least trying something, and willing to back it up with their own $$.

 

[Lumocolor]

How do you know they are not going to air in Asia and other markets? How tough is it have commentary in the airing country's native tongue?

And what makes you believe that anyone in asia gives a crap about any of the american players on any of the BB teams?

Just like Justin always says, he could get the best asians in a TAR broadcast but nobody in the US would give a shit or pay to watch.

They could have tried it out in a larger market at a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the hassle they seem to be getting from the vegas authorities and if it had any kind of success there, then they could have tried it in the US. But then we'd probably have all the bashers whining to get an explanation as to why it wasn't done in the US in the first place...lol

But opinions are like Aholes and we all have one.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

And what makes you believe that anyone in asia gives a crap about any of the american players on any of the BB teams?

Just like Justin always says, he could get the best asians in a TAR broadcast but nobody in the US would give a shit or pay to watch.

They could have tried it out in a larger market at a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the hassle they seem to be getting from the vegas authorities and if it had any kind of success there, then they could have tried it in the US. But then we'd probably have all the bashers whining to get an explanation as to why it wasn't done in the US in the first place...lol

But opinions are like Aholes and we all have one.

It's not just American players in BB. You know that. Additionally, I, as a pool enthusiast consumer, will enjoy following BB players from different countries, as WILL others in other countries. There's world class players on this 36 player league. Lastly, IMO, you are intimating that they are surely doing it wrong, and yet, do you really know what markets they plan to tap? It just seems you're blasting away when "üs masses" are in the dark on their business model.

I can take your point with some credit that they could have possibly done it less expensively, but with all due respect, I think some of your points are pre-mature - unknowing & strong and a bit short sighted. We just don't know (yet).

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Here's the way I see it...a lot of people say pool needs to be "fixed". I'm not so sure about that, but the pros do need a way to make a living at the game, not just the top 5 on the planet or so. What is going on, isn't working to well towards that goal. So, something different needs to be done.

BB is definitely something different. And huge attaboys to those "running it" for at least trying something. Will it work out for the pros? I don't have a clue. Hopefully, it will. Sure, lots of "new" things didn't work out so well in the past. At least people tried. As long as people keep trying, maybe eventually someone will come up with something that does work. Maybe BB is that thing?? Only time will tell. If it fails, then others can have something else to look at that didn't work, and why it didn't work, so they can then come up with something else without making the same mistakes as those before them.

Is BB going to be the instant salvation for pool? No. No one said it would. But, given time, who knows? For now, they have my respect for at least trying something, and willing to back it up with their own $$.

Well said Neil. Let them roll the dice. There's a reason why 36 of some of the world's best have signed on. One concern I have is that BB takes away from other events and... I think they are trying to be empathetic to that.

Anyway you look at it, this will be impacting and write another chapter in this crazy f'g industry.

 

[RobertaAgnor]

Exactly, I can't help but think there's much about this we don't know because these guys wouldn't have signed on otherwise. I've been hearing about BB for over a year now & I admit I understood nothing about it at first but I'm now very intrigued by it & have greatly enjoyed the matches I've watched online but I do understand it's not everyone's taste.

They've already stated that any player can miss a game as long as there's an alternate to fill in. I think that's very fair because, after all, the player did sign on for the full season.

I'm just taking the stance of wait & see but I think it's going to be pretty exciting to see the potential changes this might bring.

Well said Neil. Let them roll the dice. There's a reason why 36 of some of the world's best have signed on. One concern I have is that BB takes away from other events and... I think they are trying to be empathetic to that.

Anyway you look at it, this will be impacting and write another chapter in this crazy f'g industry.

 

[center pocket]

To the OP, great thread and you hit the nail on the head. Just in the last year I have been trying to purchase more TAR matches in order to contribute.

I am stationed in Korea right now and we are trying to get a local pool league started. In the last week I designed the following website for the league and I have spent about 15 hours on making it. I bring this up because this is my most current contribution to pool and the pool players in our area.

www.anjungripoolleague.com
or google anjungri pool league