What's a Girl to Do?!

I'd just advise you to mark it up to experience and not let it tax your mind anymore than it has. Next time the guy will know better than to do it again.

I'm sure he would have done that to a man just as quick as a woman. Some people have very little if any morals when it comes down to their pride.

Improving your own game even further is what it's all about.

Keep hitting them straight and may the pool Gods smile on you even more ;)
 
The problem to me is not whether he intended to play the shot but the fact that he did not call it. When you are playing call pocket, it is out of respect that we allow our opponent and visa versa to only verbally call shots that are not obvious. When someone abuses that by claiming they intended a shot that was far from obvious then they have lost that respect. Any decent player knows to call banks, combos and caroms. Even a straight dead combo, I will call, cause we all know weird stuff can happen when you add another element to the shot, no matter how obvious it may seem.

IMO this player has lost your respect, by trying to take advantage of what appears to be a lucky shot. Whether that has to do with you being a woman, only he knows. It sounds like it has more to do with him being a cheater. To me, anyone that can get satisfaction out of a win you cheated to get is pretty low on the totem pole of life...

As a woman, I run into all kinds of attitudes and I too am often the only woman in the room. Most know me well enough, that I have garnered their respect...but there are always those guys who need educating ;)!
Pool is like a microscopic view of the world at large and little is different in terms of male dominance...but I know it makes me a stronger player and that is all that matters in the end. Besides they are handy and can lift heavy stuff!
 
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blah blah said:
you got your new cue, you love the hit, and you're playing really well- day after day, and not just one night.

i think that you're surprising the players who have already categorized you and your game into a little box, and now you're showing them that you don't really fit into that box anymore. They're testing your boundaries and probably trying to stuff you back into that old box in their heads.

don't let them.

congrats on the new cue, congrats on stepping up your game, congrats on standing firm and not letting them push you around. keep it up.
Click to expand...

I am suspecting this may well be the case. For the most part, my improvement has met with positive reactions...but there is always someone, isn't there?;) Also, I do not mind losing...especially if I played well. If the guy would have beaten me straight-up, I would have never said a word, except to congratulate him for the win. Live and learn. I will make sure that in the future, with certain players, that I make my expectations crystal clear, as far as calling combos, banks, and caroms.

Thanks!
Lisa
 
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I played really well(well, by my own standards that is:) ) with a very plain Josey sneaky pete once. I really loved that cue and I was making shots I could not make before.

Then one days, I looked at my cue, and I was so troubled by how plain it looked I sold it the next day.

What is the matter with me?:confused:

Anyway, going back to the topic...

I know a lot of people, myself included actually, who do not like to join league or tournament too often because of players who have displayed poor sportsmanship. I just play for fun and it is hard to have fun when the other guy is acting in an unfriendly or dishonest manner.

I was in a small tournament the other night, a friend of the guy I was playing with kept sitting next to the table wiping his cue down with a white cloth repeatedly for the length of may be three games. He did this many times right in front of me when I was shooting. When I asked him to please move to another area to wipe his cue, my opponent told me, "just shoot, would you?" Whenever I made a mistake, this guy would applaud. He would take forever to get away from the table after he missed, he was on the phone while he was racking, then he would stop racking and started joking with his friend for five minutes...so I had to sit there and wait...

Anyway, after I beat this guy, he would not even shake my hand.

In my opinion, it is things like this that has deterred a lot of people to play the game.

I used to get disturbed by this to the extend that I can no longer shoot. Now, I try to really bear down and beat the guy.

The way I look at it, if I eliminate him, then the next guy after me does not have to put up with his tactics, and everyone may just have more fun in the tournament...:)
 
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ridewiththewind said:
So, since receiving my Josey, my game has gotten to be the best it's been, with some real advancements in the last several weeks...I have to attribute a lot of this to the much stiffer 'hit'.

I decided to hit a tourney last night that I have never been to before, but know a few people who frequent it, as well as the guy who runs it. So, I am playing a few practice games with supposedly one of the best shooters there, and I not only give him 'game' but I take 2 of the 3 we played. I'm shooting pretty well...been this way for about a week now.

Fast-foward to the match....I pull this same guy in the first bracket. Again, I am giving him good game. We're in the second game in a race to 2. The guy gets on darn near a straight-in 2-ball comination shot (10,13) to the corner pocket near the bottom rail. From where I was sitting, I could see the shot dead-on...looks pretty easy to me, pretty clear-cut, but then again, I like combos.

The guy takes the shot...hits the 10, which contacts the rail, caroms off the 13 into the corner pocket. I figure, he's bobbled the shot, but still gotta a ball down. No, he sets to shoot again! Now, as there was no obvious reason to have taken that shot the way he did...as the rest of his balls were mid or up table...I decided to ask him which ball he had intended on pocketing. He claims to have planned that shot. Now, it's becoming a 'heated' discussion, as I have apparently offended him...to the point where one of his 'buddies' tells me that no one would 'cheat' me. (I never used the word cheat or anything like it...however, I am later told that the 'buddy' will cheat you blind if you don't pay attention.)

My contention is, the shot he was taking was most definitely NOT an obvious shot, and that he was required to call the intended ball and intended pocket. I have had this happen to me 3x this week already! I am always indicating my intended ball and pocket...to avoid this type of thing from happening.

The guy finally admits to me that it was not an obvious shot, but only after I had decided, after that set, that I was in no mood for this, and that I was going to forfeit the rest of my sets...especially since I had already had similar experiences this week. I did wind up finishing out the tourney, but only because the TD asked me to.

I guess I am not getting why, all of a sudden, I am experiencing this type of behavior on the table. This has never really been an issue in the past. I watch my games pretty close, and usually, in the past, the obvious shot was the taken shot...or the shooter will indicate his or her intended pocket...as it should be. Could it be something as simple as all the players involved (men) don't particularly like losing games to a woman? Just trying to figure it out...as I hate the games to become confrontational, but I'm not gonna just sit there and let them foul and continue to stay at the table! Any suggestions on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.

Lisa
Click to expand...

Lisa, quit being a pussy.
You are right about guys not wanting to lose games to a woman. They catch plenty of heat from their other macho buddies when they do, so most avoid it like the plague. Some would rather sacrifice their dignity than jeopardize their frail egos. But if you want to handle this properly, handle it just like you should if it were a female opponent; when you see them getting ready to shoot a questionable shot, politely ask them where they are going, before they shoot. That cuts out the luck and arguments. If they get disgusted with you for asking in advance of the shot, that's their problem.
JoeyA
 
I still don't see what this story has to do with your new cue....... I think you're just braggin.....lol
Girls beat me all the time, and I play everyone the same badly..... honestly......but badly.....

McCue Banger McCue
 
ridewiththewind said:
So, since receiving my Josey, my game has gotten to be the best it's been, with some real advancements in the last several weeks...I have to attribute a lot of this to the much stiffer 'hit'.

I decided to hit a tourney last night that I have never been to before, but know a few people who frequent it, as well as the guy who runs it. So, I am playing a few practice games with supposedly one of the best shooters there, and I not only give him 'game' but I take 2 of the 3 we played. I'm shooting pretty well...been this way for about a week now.

Fast-foward to the match....I pull this same guy in the first bracket. Again, I am giving him good game. We're in the second game in a race to 2. The guy gets on darn near a straight-in 2-ball comination shot (10,13) to the corner pocket near the bottom rail. From where I was sitting, I could see the shot dead-on...looks pretty easy to me, pretty clear-cut, but then again, I like combos.

The guy takes the shot...hits the 10, which contacts the rail, caroms off the 13 into the corner pocket. I figure, he's bobbled the shot, but still gotta a ball down. No, he sets to shoot again! Now, as there was no obvious reason to have taken that shot the way he did...as the rest of his balls were mid or up table...I decided to ask him which ball he had intended on pocketing. He claims to have planned that shot. Now, it's becoming a 'heated' discussion, as I have apparently offended him...to the point where one of his 'buddies' tells me that no one would 'cheat' me. (I never used the word cheat or anything like it...however, I am later told that the 'buddy' will cheat you blind if you don't pay attention.)

My contention is, the shot he was taking was most definitely NOT an obvious shot, and that he was required to call the intended ball and intended pocket. I have had this happen to me 3x this week already! I am always indicating my intended ball and pocket...to avoid this type of thing from happening.

The guy finally admits to me that it was not an obvious shot, but only after I had decided, after that set, that I was in no mood for this, and that I was going to forfeit the rest of my sets...especially since I had already had similar experiences this week. I did wind up finishing out the tourney, but only because the TD asked me to.

I guess I am not getting why, all of a sudden, I am experiencing this type of behavior on the table. This has never really been an issue in the past. I watch my games pretty close, and usually, in the past, the obvious shot was the taken shot...or the shooter will indicate his or her intended pocket...as it should be. Could it be something as simple as all the players involved (men) don't particularly like losing games to a woman? Just trying to figure it out...as I hate the games to become confrontational, but I'm not gonna just sit there and let them foul and continue to stay at the table! Any suggestions on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.

Lisa
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The rules generally state that anything other than a straight forward pot is not an obvious shot.

It sounds to me like you were playing well before, and he was concerned about losing. So he tried to get away with one. I notice that a lot when a player is losing or just can't win, they fluke a ball and make like they played it. "What are ya talkin about, a ball banked three rails, kissed off two balls then jumped off the last cusion into the corner pocket isn't an obvious shot?"
 
ridewiththewind said:
So, since receiving my Josey, my game has gotten to be the best it's been, with some real advancements in the last several weeks...I have to attribute a lot of this to the much stiffer 'hit'.

I decided to hit a tourney last night that I have never been to before, but know a few people who frequent it, as well as the guy who runs it. So, I am playing a few practice games with supposedly one of the best shooters there, and I not only give him 'game' but I take 2 of the 3 we played. I'm shooting pretty well...been this way for about a week now.

Fast-foward to the match....I pull this same guy in the first bracket. Again, I am giving him good game. We're in the second game in a race to 2. The guy gets on darn near a straight-in 2-ball comination shot (10,13) to the corner pocket near the bottom rail. From where I was sitting, I could see the shot dead-on...looks pretty easy to me, pretty clear-cut, but then again, I like combos.

The guy takes the shot...hits the 10, which contacts the rail, caroms off the 13 into the corner pocket. I figure, he's bobbled the shot, but still gotta a ball down. No, he sets to shoot again! Now, as there was no obvious reason to have taken that shot the way he did...as the rest of his balls were mid or up table...I decided to ask him which ball he had intended on pocketing. He claims to have planned that shot. Now, it's becoming a 'heated' discussion, as I have apparently offended him...to the point where one of his 'buddies' tells me that no one would 'cheat' me. (I never used the word cheat or anything like it...however, I am later told that the 'buddy' will cheat you blind if you don't pay attention.)

My contention is, the shot he was taking was most definitely NOT an obvious shot, and that he was required to call the intended ball and intended pocket. I have had this happen to me 3x this week already! I am always indicating my intended ball and pocket...to avoid this type of thing from happening.

The guy finally admits to me that it was not an obvious shot, but only after I had decided, after that set, that I was in no mood for this, and that I was going to forfeit the rest of my sets...especially since I had already had similar experiences this week. I did wind up finishing out the tourney, but only because the TD asked me to.

I guess I am not getting why, all of a sudden, I am experiencing this type of behavior on the table. This has never really been an issue in the past. I watch my games pretty close, and usually, in the past, the obvious shot was the taken shot...or the shooter will indicate his or her intended pocket...as it should be. Could it be something as simple as all the players involved (men) don't particularly like losing games to a woman? Just trying to figure it out...as I hate the games to become confrontational, but I'm not gonna just sit there and let them foul and continue to stay at the table! Any suggestions on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.

Lisa
Click to expand...

Playing the ball as he did could have been the intention. By doing so, he would kick the 13 toward the opposing corner and thus creating an easier way for him to get back up table to finish off the rest of the rack. I'm inclined to think he may have intended to pocket the 10 in this manner because if he really is a solid shooter, missing a combo by that much is horrific.

Still, if it was a call-ball tournament, he should have done just that. Seeing as he didn't, he should have no complaints with your questioning his shot.

To further avoid any hassles of this kind in the near future, you can try one of two things:
1) Be sure to tell your opponent to call EVERYTHING just to avoid any disputes
2) Stop playing 8 ball.

(I'd go for the latter, but that's just me. :D )

-Take it easy and happy thanksgiving.
 
I see all too much of this myself and have stopped going to a couple tournaments where these incidents (like you, I won't say cheating even though that's what it is) are rampant. It never ceases to amaze me how some people want to win at any cost, even if the price they pay is their own honor.
 
I play in alot tournies around the Atlanta area. In those tournies I sometimes have to play against the likes of Helena Thornfeldt, Monica Webb, Alice Rim and of late Sarah Rousey. All of the above mentioned can dab it pretty well. My point is, if the person you are playing plays well and outplays you, then they deserve to win no matter if they are male or female. So I really dont get hung up on the "I got beat by a girl" thing.

Southpaw
 
pharaoh68 said:
Playing the ball as he did could have been the intention. By doing so, he would kick the 13 toward the opposing corner and thus creating an easier way for him to get back up table to finish off the rest of the rack. I'm inclined to think he may have intended to pocket the 10 in this manner because if he really is a solid shooter, missing a combo by that much is horrific.

Still, if it was a call-ball tournament, he should have done just that. Seeing as he didn't, he should have no complaints with your questioning his shot.

To further avoid any hassles of this kind in the near future, you can try one of two things:
1) Be sure to tell your opponent to call EVERYTHING just to avoid any disputes
2) Stop playing 8 ball.

(I'd go for the latter, but that's just me. :D )

-Take it easy and happy thanksgiving.
Click to expand...


Lol...we do not have too many tournies for 9 Ball...in fact, I can only think of one, locally. Most all the tournies are 8 Ball, with BCA/Vegas rules.

Not really too sure he intended the shot, as the CB wound up leaving him somewhat hooked to get at anything up-table, and the 13 wound up on the side rail...requiring the mother of all rail shots to get it to the opposite end of the table.

Per the BCA Rule Book for Tournament 8 Ball it states:

"4.2 CALL SHOT
In Call Shot, obvious balls and pockets do not have to be indicated. It is the opponent's right to ask which ball and pocket if he/she is unsure of the shot. Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket."

With the above in mind....he was clearly lined up on the CB to make a two ball combination shot. I was not 'unsure' of the shot...it appeared very clear.

Now, suppose he did in fact intend to play the 10 off the 13, then off the rail and carom off the 13 into the corner....as I have bolded in the above...he neither indicated object ball, nor indicate the bank off the rail or the carom off the 13.

Point is, he fouled...whether it was by failing to pocket the 13 from the obvious combination, or by not calling the object ball in the less obvious shot, where he also failed to indicate the bank and the carom...let alone the pocket.

This guy was playing very cocky...and had already missed some straight-in shots by hitting into the pocket too hard. I have seen some very easy combos missed, because some people just cannot read them right, as far as the contact point on the object ball goes...so, it did not surprise me that he had missed the shot, as there was roughly 3"-4" between the 10 and the 13...enough room to screw it up if the CB was poorly stroked. But, since these were the only two balls he had at the end of the table, and they were perfectly lined up...too me anyway...anyone would have assumed that he was taking the obvious combo...plus, it would have left him shape to get back up-table, which he did not have after the shot he took.

Hopefully this clarifies things a bit, and why I did not stay silent on this one...normally I do, as a rule...I am pretty non-confrontational.

Lisa
 
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ridewiththewind said:
Lol...we do not have too many tournies for 9 Ball...in fact, I can only think of one, locally. Most all the tournies are 8 Ball, with BCA/Vegas rules.

Not really too sure he intended the shot, as the CB wound up leaving him somewhat hooked to get at anything up-table, and the 13 wound up on the side rail...requiring the mother of all rail shots to get it to the opposite end of the table.

Per the BCA Rule Book for Tournament 8 Ball it states:

"4.2 CALL SHOT
In Call Shot, obvious balls and pockets do not have to be indicated. It is the opponent's right to ask which ball and pocket if he/she is unsure of the shot. Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket."

With the above in mind....he was clearly lined up on the CB to make a two ball combination shot. I was not 'unsure' of the shot...it appeared very clear.

Now, suppose he did in fact intend to play the 10 off the 13, then off the rail and carom off the 13 into the corner....as I have bolded in the above...he neither indicated object ball, nor indicate the bank off the rail or the carom off the 13.

Point is, he fouled...whether it was by failing to pocket the 13 from the obvious combination, or by not calling the object ball in the less obvious shot, where he also failed to indicate the bank and the carom...let alone the pocket.

This guy was playing very cocky...and had already missed some straight-in shots by hitting into the pocket too hard. I have seen some very easy combos missed, because some people just cannot read them right, as far as the contact point on the object ball goes...so, it did not surprise me that he had missed the shot, as there was roughly 3"-4" between the 10 and the 13...enough room to screw it up if the CB was poorly stroked. But, since these were the only two balls he had at the end of the table, and they were perfectly lined up...too me anyway...anyone would have assumed that he was taking the obvious combo...plus, it would have left him shape to get back up-table, which he did not have after the shot he took.

Hopefully this clarifies things a bit, and why I did not stay silent on this one...normally I do, as a rule...I am pretty non-confrontational.

Lisa
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I was just about to cite that that rule in the BCA book, but it's obvious that what's happening is that your game is improving and thus, you are a threat to players that weren't worried about you before. You did the right thing, and you should never accept that type of thing in a tournament situation. The only time that I would advocate letting that type of thing pass is if you're playing and robbing a lesser player. As the old saying goes, "You never argue when you're ahead!"

Congrats on your improving game!
 
VIProfessor said:
I was just about to cite that that rule in the BCA book, but it's obvious that what's happening is that your game is improving and thus, you are a threat to players that weren't worried about you before. You did the right thing, and you should never accept that type of thing in a tournament situation. The only time that I would advocate letting that type of thing pass is if you're playing and robbing a lesser player. As the old saying goes, "You never argue when you're ahead!"

Congrats on your improving game!
Click to expand...


Thanks! It was definitely as case of 'me thinks he doth protests too much'.:) He was expecting me to back down on my dissention, which I did not. He finally admitted that it was not an obvious shot. Either way, he was in a foul situation. I think he thought I was seeking BIH, but, since he had contacted one of his suited balls first, I just considered it as failure to pocket the obvious object ball. I think he was more upset about getting called on it.

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
Fast-foward to the match....I pull this same guy in the first bracket. Again, I am giving him good game. We're in the second game in a race to 2. The guy gets on darn near a straight-in 2-ball comination shot (10,13) to the corner pocket near the bottom rail. From where I was sitting, I could see the shot dead-on...looks pretty easy to me, pretty clear-cut, but then again, I like combos.

The guy takes the shot...hits the 10, which contacts the rail, caroms off the 13 into the corner pocket. I figure, he's bobbled the shot, but still gotta a ball down. No, he sets to shoot again!
Click to expand...

First of all, I think he should have called the shot. That's his bad. But, the ticky isn't a bad shot, and could have been the absolutely correct shot the way it and the rest of the balls lay. Maybe he thought that it was so obviously the right shot that he didn't bother calling it. Regardless, he should have called it.

Fast forward. You questioned it. He said that's what he was shooting. You have two choices: drag it out, or be done with it. To think that it's a "man vs. woman" thing indicates that you believe he was flat out lying to you. From the description, it's either he miss hit the combo badly, but somehow the 10 dropped, or he hit a solid ticky. Which one was it? I'm guessing the solid shot.

Anyway, that's my take. He was wrong to not call it, but it's not an offense that causes too many problems usually. I would hate to think that the end net result is that people are talking behind your back, calling you the "nitpicking b*tch or worse.

Fred
 
Lisa,

What happened and ensued has happened many, many times before between players. You weren't without merit to call him on the carpet for what he did. Now you know how this player operates. I suggest that you put this on your "list" about him. And the next time you two have to play each other you tell him before the match that he has to call the ball and pocket when it's not an obvious shot (caroms/combos/banks).

Barbara
 
ridewiththewind said:
Now, suppose he did in fact intend to play the 10 off the 13, then off the rail and carom off the 13 into the corner....as I have bolded in the above...he neither indicated object ball, nor indicate the bank off the rail or the carom off the 13.

Point is, he fouled...whether it was by failing to pocket the 13 from the obvious combination, or by not calling the object ball in the less obvious shot, where he also failed to indicate the bank and the carom...let alone the pocket.



Lisa
Click to expand...

This thread and a couple others recently have me questioning my understanding of BCA rules.
In the case here, ALL the shooter was obligated to state was the 10 ball in the corner pocket (the one he pocketed it in), and didn't need to state anything about any banks or caroms. Am I right in my interpretation of the rules?
Thanks in advance.
 
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Steve - Detroit said:
This thread and a couple others recently have me questioning my understanding of BCA rules.
In the case here, ALL the shooter was obligated to state was the 10 ball in the corner pocket (the one he pocketed it in), and didn't need to state anything about any banks or caroms. Am I right in my interpretation of the rules?
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Steve,

You are correct. BCA rules specify to call the ball and the pocket, not its route to the pocket.

Barbara
 
Bring back 14.1. Call shot, pocket, rails, caroms, kisses, banks, and safes. Johnnyt
 
Barbara said:
Steve,

You are correct. BCA rules specify to call the ball and the pocket, not its route to the pocket.

Barbara
Click to expand...

Thank you Barbara, I was hoping a recognized rules guru would step in on this. The rules change more often than I thought and just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.
 
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