What's going on with pool equipment?

[Chopdoc]

IMO Meucci is on the right track. They are sponsoring players and producing modern cues, some with throwback designs. Not everyone loves them, but my opinion is that they have improved on the quality and service front. I see tons of their cues from 800-1200 or so that I think can give the 7 to the imports in the looks department. If they play good….(I think so and like the Pro shaft)

I’d like to see McDermott do some C and D series throwbacks with modern shafts.

I don't disagree, but Meucci's sneaky pete is $432 on sale from $480.
Joss "limited series" cues are available for $267.75, I think that's pretty good.

Sponsoring players is good for the sport. I am wondering about pool as recreation, something for the broader market than the interest as a sport.

What I am thinking about is the real entry level stuff. The cues that the masses start with and frequently stay with.

And what about the cases? McDermott, Viking, Meucci, and Joss all offered versions of the traditional Fellini style case over the years. The Meucci version was crap, but the others actually offered really good cases. Some of them were made by It's George.

I remember years ago McDermott released some limited cues made of forearms leftover from the D series. I agree, it would be great to see them revive some old designs.

Schmelke is still hanging in there too. I haven't checked in years but before I left they were still offering to custom build cues. As I remember there were at least a couple AZB members that had Schmelke build them a custom. I have no idea what Schmelke is doing these days. I have exactly one early Schmelke fancy sneaky in my collection.

 

[JPB2]

I don't disagree, but Meucci's sneaky pete is $432 on sale from $480.
Joss "limited series" cues are available for $267.75, I think that's pretty good.

Sponsoring players is good for the sport. I am wondering about pool as recreation, something for the broader market than the interest as a sport.

What I am thinking about is the real entry level stuff. The cues that the masses start with and frequently stay with.

And what about the cases? McDermott, Viking, Meucci, and Joss all offered versions of the traditional Fellini style case over the years. The Meucci version was crap, but the others actually offered really good cases. Some of them were made by It's George.

I remember years ago McDermott released some limited cues made of forearms leftover from the D series. I agree, it would be great to see them revive some old designs.

Schmelke is still hanging in there too. I haven't checked in years but before I left they were still offering to custom build cues. As I remember there were at least a couple AZB members that had Schmelke build them a custom. I have no idea what Schmelke is doing these days. I have exactly one early Schmelke fancy sneaky in my collection.

In that entry level spot, yeah I see what you are saying. I don’t love the import lines that have taken that role at McDermott and Viking. Joss for $267 is a great deal. But to get in to a more modern lower deflection shaft, American made, you are looking more in the 4-500 range at Meucci, McDermott or Viking. The entry level cue I think is great is the Cuetec Avid line. IMO it is smart to have extension ready butts, a good extension available, and really interchangeable shafts. I think the American companies could do better In that regard. I don’t know what the price point would have to be, but I would like to see an American company offer a modern shaft cue where a player could get a bag of what they need to play tournaments for a good price. I would want a player to be able to get a butt, two shafts, extension, break cue, jump cue and case for an attainable price. Even if not purchased all at once.

 

[skor]

American-made brands also suffer in the international market.
10-15 years ago, shipments from the USA to Europe used to cost about $50; today the mail system is failing while it costs over $100, and you might not get the cue, so other couriers are used, such as UPS, DHL, and FedEx. The charges are ridiculous, about $300... there is no sence in paying $600 for a $200-$300 cue So people like me start to look elsewhere, where shipment is low or free; that's why those cheap Amazon and Temu brands get centre stage for entry-level cues while the players get mediocre products at best. The rest of the world is a big market that is not patriotic regarding american-made products

Now with CF cues and shafts, you can get a cue with a CF shaft for under $200, and it will outperform a $200-$600 American-made cue that still comes with a cheap wooden high-deflection shaft. So this is also starting to hurt the US market.

 

[skogstokig]

Joss JOS201 Pool Cue

Joss is the boss when it comes to beautifully crafted cues.

www.pooldawg.com

not a limited series, and has linen wrap, for $293

 

[j2pac]

I've been browsing around pool equipment sites, and it looks very gloomy.

Some brands disappear, other cheap brands become too expensive as if they are custom, Cuetec? Really? Lucasi? Really?

The old players in the industry put nothing appealing.

And a lot of things have been sold out for a while now.

Cue cases are even worse; where are all the good cases?

Nobody makes good tubes cases like Instroke anymore? that are not $2000 custom

All the cases have thin nylon dividers that protect nothing; JB seems to be the only one that provides good protection in a non-tube case, but I like a case that I can use as a cue holder while playing. The Instrokes look like they haven't been updated in years, and those jump cue compartments will not fit a modern jump cue butt, not to mention any reference to jump cues that have two-piece butt construction. It seams that there is no new case that can beat my old original Predator case (that was made by Instroke)

Besides CF shafts, it looks like nothing new in 15 years except fewer offerings for a lot more money.

What's going on?

My JB case will hold my cues in place while I'm playing. My Jump handle was too long for the Jump pocket, so I took a piece of pvc tube, a toilet plunger handle, a joint protector, and some golf club epoxy, and made an extension that allows my jump cue handle to sit in one of the cue butt spots inside my case. I think the whole thing cost me about $10 to $15 bucks to make.

 

[Mensabum]

The visionaries have been saying dystopia for a long time.

Thot I was a visionary for the longest time... Found out it was just some dirt on my glasses.

 

[straightline]

Thot I was a visionary for the longest time... Found out it was just some dirt on my glasses.

There's a couple here with bugs in their avatar or the latest just today some guy with an enlarged period in his sig. I tried to wipe that off the screen - a couple times.

 

[Mensabum]

Joss JOS201 Pool Cue

Joss is the boss when it comes to beautifully crafted cues.

www.pooldawg.com

not a limited series, and has linen wrap, for $293

Honestly, idk why you'd buy anything else. Any decent player could pick that up and rob everybody. I'm glad to see 13mm standard and tip choices are single layered. Lets me know I'm not completely obsolete. Yet.

 

[Mensabum]

My JB case will hold my cues in place while I'm playing. My Jump handle was too long for the Jump pocket, so I took a piece of pvc tube, a toilet plunger handle, a joint protector, and some golf club epoxy, and made an extension that allows my jump cue handle to sit in one of the cue butt spots inside my case. I think the whole thing cost me about $10 to $15 bucks to make.

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Hu would be proud!!!

 

[trob]

Yes. Joss "limited series" cues for $267.75, covered here in the forum linked below. Google to find a selection of them from various sources.

Joss "Limited Series" cues

Greetings all. Joss is selling "limited series" cues on a couple pool supply warehouses. They're priced at $267.75 which is considerably lower than their norm. They aren't particularly attractive, but I've never played with a Joss and at that...

forums.azbilliards.com

I don’t know how you can go wrong. Made in America. great product. Stiff solid hit like a new player should have in a cue. That’s an incredible deal.

 

[trob]

Yes, and McDemott has the Star, Lucky and Element cues from Asia.

But it's worse than those observations. There is a product I would like to put out, and a component for it is required that needs to be prototyped. I am not going to invest in the manufacturing equipment and space needed to do it, at least I thought I would not. I have tried to get it in the US, but not only is it difficult, it's almost impossible, and severely cost prohibitive. There are several very competitive options in Asia, but I have decided until I can source that thing in the US, I will not do it. Last week I started looking at leases on small industrial spaces and the cost of the machinery to manufacture the component I need. We shall see.

I am glad Viking got rescued from closure. That really is huge. I am so glad they are in business. I do not fault them or McDermott for trying to supply their lower cost products by sourcing from Asia.

About ten years ago I won a beautiful full splice Predator off a guy playing 9 ball. I traded it for a C series McDermott and leather It's George tube case. Now I see that Predator model selling as 'Vintage" for stupid prices, apparently it's a hot item. Do I regret the trade? Heck no. And I sure don't see why that Predator is such a hot item. I find it about as inspiring as a good piece of Tupperware, which by the way is another US company that is now going away or gone.

Let me say I got my son a lucky cue from mcdermott and it’s absolute junk. The shaft was terrible. Felt like something you get from Walmart. They should be ashamed to make something that terrible with their name on it. mcdermott was my first cue so I have a certain fondness for them but this is terrible.

I don't disagree, but Meucci's sneaky pete is $432 on sale from $480.
Joss "limited series" cues are available for $267.75, I think that's pretty good.

Sponsoring players is good for the sport. I am wondering about pool as recreation, something for the broader market than the interest as a sport.

What I am thinking about is the real entry level stuff. The cues that the masses start with and frequently stay with.

And what about the cases? McDermott, Viking, Meucci, and Joss all offered versions of the traditional Fellini style case over the years. The Meucci version was crap, but the others actually offered really good cases. Some of them were made by It's George.

I remember years ago McDermott released some limited cues made of forearms leftover from the D series. I agree, it would be great to see them revive some old designs.

Schmelke is still hanging in there too. I haven't checked in years but before I left they were still offering to custom build cues. As I remember there were at least a couple AZB members that had Schmelke build them a custom. I have no idea what Schmelke is doing these days. I have exactly one early Schmelke fancy sneaky in my collection.

i have an old joss it’s George case hanging in my pool room. It’s been with me for 30 years. I wish I could still use it but there is no room for a jump cue.

 

[Chopdoc]

Your endeavors are certainly very interesting and with sincerity I wish you the best. Keep us updated without giving too much info about your product. Overseas could very well be an option if you want to get your product out there. I know there are moral and financial dilemmas but you may not have a choice if you want to see your idea come to fruition.

Thanks. An additional problem I didn't mention is design theft or cloning. If I have the thing made in Asia, especially China, there is a very good chance it will be "stolen". The same company that makes it for you will sell it to anyone. They don't really respect trademarks, patents, or anything like that. In fact culturally speaking, if you can get away with "cheating" it is a respected thing. I don't even want to try to use an NDA with technical specs for the prototype, I have little doubt they would abscond with it. It is something I can "hand make" is I want to do low production number "custom" product. I would like to do that, but I work a helluva lot of hours in my primary profession and the balance of my time is given to charity. Something would have to be sacrificed.

 

[skor]

My JB case will hold my cues in place while I'm playing. My Jump handle was too long for the Jump pocket, so I took a piece of pvc tube, a toilet plunger handle, a joint protector, and some golf club epoxy, and made an extension that allows my jump cue handle to sit in one of the cue butt spots inside my case. I think the whole thing cost me about $10 to $15 bucks to make.

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Nice work
But isn’t it time for the case makers to acknowledge modern equipment?

 

[Zerksies]

The only thing JB has going is that liner of his. If other companies did something like that I would be buying

 

[billiards_watch]

The only thing JB has going is that liner of his. If other companies did something like that I would be buying

They are well made. I have a 3x6 leather one and the only thing I dislike is the weight.

 

[skor]

Joss JOS201 Pool Cue

Joss is the boss when it comes to beautifully crafted cues.

www.pooldawg.com

not a limited series, and has linen wrap, for $293

The thing is, if you want to add high performance shaft, you're at $600 and if you live outside the USA, it $100-$300 extra for shipment. almost a $1000 for an entry level cue.
Or you can order a cue from Asia that comes with a CF shaft for under $300 +$50 shipment world wide.

 

[billiards_watch]

The thing is, if you want to add high performance shaft, you're at $600 and if you live outside the USA, it $100-$300 extra for shipment. almost a $1000 for an entry level cue.
Or you can order a cue from Asia that comes with a CF shaft for under $300 +$50 shipment world wide.

Damn that's not good to hear.

I hope your experience help Americans to appreciate the cues they have. We are lucky to play with various cues and our cue makers are the best in the world. It's a very nice luxury.

If it cost that much to ship a cue then the best bet is to go all in and buy a custom cue.

 

[Cicerone88]

The only thing JB has going is that liner of his. If other companies did something like that I would be buying

Lol not just the liner its the entire construction. No shortcuts and reinforcement in stress spots. They’re built to last a lifetime.

 

[billiards_watch]

Lol not just the liner its the entire construction. No shortcuts and reinforcement in stress spots. They’re built to last a lifetime.

I can vouch for this. My fully loaded JB leather 3x6 case comes in at 15lbs. I grab the case, throw the case and swing it around and the handles show no signs of ripping apart.

I may get the rugged depending on how much it weights fully loaded.

 

[MitchAlsup]

I blame Covid killing business.

I blame the government's and the business' response to Covid for killing businesses.