What's Most Important To Know About Playing

TATE said:
Relax Drivermaker,

Last Two is a good guy - I know you would like him if you met him. He's a very respectable patriotic young man who's served our country well in the military, is putting himself through college and plays pool at the "A" level.

Chris


Nice try Chris...I always appreciate your posts, but not his, especially since they all start out trying to slam me one way or another. Start reading a little deeper as far as who looks for the trouble and starts things. I never go on his threads...he comes to me looking for it. As much respect as I have for anyone that goes to the service, that doesn't mean that they always turn out good once they get out. How about Timothy McVie for starters. When LastTwo stops his shit and becomes an "A" level human being, I'll respond in like kind. I could give a shit how he plays pool, that's not what defines a person. Have a fatherly talk to your adopted son, see what happens.
 
TATE said:
Last Two is a good guy - I know you would like him if you met him. He's a very respectable patriotic young man who's served our country well in the military, is putting himself through college and plays pool at the "A" level.

He is honest and serious. He is very tolerant of others. He too is entitled to his opinion.

Chris
I was going to stay out of this, but I think I will point out something here. I know you and LastTwo/nhp are buddies, but I would say that LastTwo was way out of line in calling Driver a racist. This kind of attack happens all too often, and is a cheap shot.

Let me tell you a comment LastTwo made on the CCB last week in a response to a statement I made. The discussion was about fringe groups endorsing candidates, and I commented that since GW had a black person as a Secretary of State and National Security Advisor, I doubted that the KKK was endorsing his presidency.

LastTwo/nhp came back with this remark: "It has been made official that Condi Rice and Colin Powell are whiter than Dubya himself."

Now I realize he was trying to be funny, but do you think Condi Rice or Colin Powell would have laughed? I would argue that C.R. and C.P. are proud of their heritage, and would consider that comparison an insult.

Could not that comment be also interpreted as racist?

Does Nat think Bill Cosby is a "whitey" too? Certainly he has openly criticised some black people lately. It was honest criticism, but coming from a white person, it would have raised the racist hue and cry to new levels.

Now, Driver made a pretty good thread, and LastTwo polluted it by turning it into a flame war. When Driver struck back (rightfully, imo) LastTwo accused him of name-calling. What do you call LastTwo's first post calling Driver a racist?

I also have been the target of name-calling from certain people who I will not name, but I know how Driver felt when he read that comment.

Sorry Driver, for hijacking the thread, but this kind of hipocrisy always gets my dander up.

-CM

/hijack off
 
highsea said:
I was going to stay out of this, but I think I will point out something here. I know you and LastTwo/nhp are buddies, but I would say that LastTwo was way out of line in calling Driver a racist. This kind of attack happens all too often, and is a cheap shot.

Let me tell you a comment LastTwo made on the CCB last week in a response to a statement I made. The discussion was about fringe groups endorsing candidates, and I commented that since GW had a black person as a Secretary of State and National Security Advisor, I doubted that the KKK was endorsing his presidency.

LastTwo/nhp came back with this remark: "It has been made official that Condi Rice and Colin Powell are whiter than Dubya himself."

Now I realize he was trying to be funny, but do you think Condi Rice or Colin Powell would have laughed? I would argue that C.R. and C.P. are proud of their heritage, and would consider that comparison an insult.

Could not that comment be also interpreted as racist?

Does Nat think Bill Cosby is a "whitey" too? Certainly he has openly criticised some black people lately. It was honest criticism, but coming from a white person, it would have raised the racist hue and cry to new levels.

Now, Driver made a pretty good thread, and LastTwo polluted it by turning it into a flame war. When Driver struck back (rightfully, imo) LastTwo accused him of name-calling. What do you call LastTwo's first post calling Driver a racist?

I also have been the target of name-calling from certain people who I will not name, but I know how Driver felt when he read that comment.

Sorry Driver, for hijacking the thread, but this kind of hipocrisy always gets my dander up.

-CM

/hijack off


Sorry Driver.......?? Highsea, you can pirate this thread all you want. Christ, I'm glad SOMEONE reads in chronological order and can interpret what's going on. I appreciate it.............
 
highsea said:
I was going to stay out of this, but I think I will point out something here. I know you and LastTwo/nhp are buddies, but I would say that LastTwo was way out of line in calling Driver a racist. This kind of attack happens all too often, and is a cheap shot.

Let me tell you a comment LastTwo made on the CCB last week in a response to a statement I made. The discussion was about fringe groups endorsing candidates, and I commented that since GW had a black person as a Secretary of State and National Security Advisor, I doubted that the KKK was endorsing his presidency.

LastTwo/nhp came back with this remark: "It has been made official that Condi Rice and Colin Powell are whiter than Dubya himself."

Now I realize he was trying to be funny, but do you think Condi Rice or Colin Powell would have laughed? I would argue that C.R. and C.P. are proud of their heritage, and would consider that comparison an insult.

Could not that comment be also interpreted as racist?

Does Nat think Bill Cosby is a "whitey" too? Certainly he has openly criticised some black people lately. It was honest criticism, but coming from a white person, it would have raised the racist hue and cry to new levels.

Now, Driver made a pretty good thread, and LastTwo polluted it by turning it into a flame war. When Driver struck back (rightfully, imo) LastTwo accused him of name-calling. What do you call LastTwo's first post calling Driver a racist?

I also have been the target of name-calling from certain people who I will not name, but I know how Driver felt when he read that comment.

Sorry Driver, for hijacking the thread, but this kind of hipocrisy always gets my dander up.

-CM

/hijack off

I quoted the Dave Chapelle show, Highsea. Dave Chapelle is black, the show is watched by mainly black people. That quote was far from racist, even against Condi Rice and Colin Powell, many black people acknowledge that and laugh at it.

Yes, I'll admit that this time I came in the thread and started the shit, but I felt Drivermaker's comment was racist so I called him on it, plain and simple. Plus, last time we had an argument, he talked a bunch of crap then ducked out putting me on his ignore list, and after ignoring me, talked even more crap.

It annoys me that he often posts about his accomplishments in life, how smart he is, e.g. talking about that and his IQ, while he is too afraid to tell anyone what his accomplishments are, who he is, etc. Instead, he'll go off on you like no other if you rub him the wrong way. He may not know you at all, but he'll say things as if he really does know you, that are entirely untrue.

You see, I get tired of this man stroking himself in most of his threads, and in this one, he boasts about his accomplishments and intelligence, and proceeds to call the people living in the black communities the DUMBEST people on earth. Oh, but I was out of line for calling him on that? I ruined a perfectly good thread by calling him on it? The PURPOSE of this thread was not for this egotistical maniac to give any concrete advice about pool, the purpose was for him to boast about his IQ and his accomplishments in life.

Drivermaker, I have yet to see you post anything about pool that would make me believe that YOU CAN PLAY A LICK AT ALL. You like to post stuff that is COMMON SENSE to a pool player, and you do that just so people can agree with you. It makes you feel good when people agree with you, doesn't it? The point of this thread was to massage your ego, and nothing else.
 
Last edited:
LastTwo said:
I quoted the Dave Chapelle show, Highsea. Dave Chapelle is black, the show is watched by mainly black people. That quote was far from racist, even against Condi Rice and Colin Powell, many black people acknowledge that and laugh at it.

Yes, I'll admit that this time I came in the thread and started the shit, but I felt Drivermaker's comment was racist so I called him on it, plain and simple. Plus, last time we had an argument, he talked a bunch of crap then ducked out putting me on his ignore list, talked even more crap, and that was that.
Okay, Nat. No biggee. But if you had attributed the quote to Chapelle at the time, maybe it would have avoided some confusion. Not that I watch TV or even know who Dave Chapelle is. :p

Imagine if I repeated some of Cosby's recent remarks here. Do you not think I would come under some criticism? The color of one's skin has no bearing on whether a comment is racist, but the context of the comment does.

So Chapelle and Cosby can get away with saying something in one context that someone else may not get away with in another context.

As far as your grudge with Driver, that's none of my concern. I only pointed out that you were the instigator in this case. If your reason was really that you wanted to know if you were still on his ignore list you could have PM'ed him and asked him. That would have been preferable to airing out a bunch of dirty laundry on the board, or starting another flame war, imho.

Anyway, peace, Dude. Let's all try to get along, or at least pretend that we do. :D

-CM
 
highsea said:
Okay, Nat. No biggee. But if you had attributed the quote to Chapelle at the time, maybe it would have avoided some confusion. Not that I watch TV or even know who Dave Chapelle is. :p

Imagine if I repeated some of Cosby's recent remarks here. Do you not think I would come under some criticism? The color of one's skin has no bearing on whether a comment is racist, but the context of the comment does.

So Chapelle and Cosby can get away with saying something in one context that someone else may not get away with in another context.

As far as your grudge with Driver, that's none of my concern. I only pointed out that you were the instigator in this case. If your reason was really that you wanted to know if you were still on his ignore list you could have PM'ed him and asked him. That would have been preferable to airing out a bunch of dirty laundry on the board, or starting another flame war, imho.

Anyway, peace, Dude. Let's all try to get along, or at least pretend that we do. :D

-CM

I figured everyone knows Dave Chapelle with the popularity of that Rick James skit he did. Anyways, in case you haven't noticed, I think Drivermaker is a phony who hides behind his PC. Sorry for the flame war, but he's done that to me on many occasions.
 
LastTwo said:
I figured everyone knows Dave Chapelle with the popularity of that Rick James skit he did. Anyways, in case you haven't noticed, I think Drivermaker is a phony who hides behind his PC. Sorry for the flame war, but he's done that to me on many occasions.
Lol. I thought Dave Chapelle was that white guy that had the late night show where he went around to different towns and got drunk with the partiers. Oh, well, I guess I'm out of the TV loop.

I read the OP differently than you did. I saw it more like Driver intended it, I guess, a question about what is really important to be a good player, and an anecdote about how he's had his lunch handed to him by players who were not exactly phd's in physics.

Considering all the discussions we get about deflection, squirt, end-mass, etc...on these boards, I think Driver was trying to point out that knowledge of these things is not required to have a solid game.

I happen to agree with that view. I think that worrying and analyzing the game to death does more harm than good, at least from my own experience. Before I knew about this stuff it couldn't hurt my game! I never tried to compensate for deflection, I just aimed and shot the ball. Practice taught me where to aim, and how to hit the CB to get shape. Sometimes too much knowledge can hurt your game, because you can't clear your mind to make the shot.

I wish I'd never heard the word squirt. Just give it to me simple, like the two-rail aiming method that Zim posted the other day. I have enough trouble absorbing the corner-5 system and return tracks. The last thing I need is a bunch of technical mumbo-jumbo about end-mass. I stopped reading the deflection threads long ago.

-CM
 
highsea said:
Lol. I thought Dave Chapelle was that white guy that had the late night show where he went around to different towns and got drunk with the partiers. Oh, well, I guess I'm out of the TV loop.

I read the OP differently than you did. I saw it more like Driver intended it, I guess, a question about what is really important to be a good player, and an anecdote about how he's had his lunch handed to him by players who were not exactly phd's in physics.

Considering all the discussions we get about deflection, squirt, end-mass, etc...on these boards, I think Driver was trying to point out that knowledge of these things is not required to have a solid game.

I happen to agree with that view. I think that worrying and analyzing the game to death does more harm than good, at least from my own experience. Before I knew about this stuff it couldn't hurt my game! I never tried to compensate for deflection, I just aimed and shot the ball. Practice taught me where to aim, and how to hit the CB to get shape. Sometimes too much knowledge can hurt your game, because you can't clear your mind to make the shot.

I wish I'd never heard the word squirt. Just give it to me simple, like the two-rail aiming method that Zim posted the other day. I have enough trouble absorbing the corner-5 system and return tracks. The last thing I need is a bunch of technical mumbo-jumbo about end-mass. I stopped reading the deflection threads long ago.

-CM

I personally feel that the reason why the term deflection was invented was as an excuse for players when they miss. If you really have a solid game, the problems deflection creates are really negligent. Once you get used to a cue, you learn how to aim with all the deflection, and for me it's a subconcious process.

I do agree that you don't need to know alot about the scientific aspects of the game to be a good player. That's pretty common knowledge. 99% of all professional players play by feel. That feel is created by years of practice and gambling. I get annoyed with these science whizzes who think they know the game better than any player does, because they come up with all these formulas and variations of what happens when a ball skids, when balls collide, and all of that crap that doesn't serve a pool player any purpose but to confuse them. Again, like I said, it's common knowledge to any pool player that knowing all that scientific crap means jack squat. I smell a phony thread created for the purposes of self-esteem issues.
 
LastTwo said:
I personally feel that the reason why the term deflection was invented was as an excuse for players when they miss. If you really have a solid game, the problems deflection creates are really negligent. Once you get used to a cue, you learn how to aim with all the deflection, and for me it's a subconcious process.

I do agree that you don't need to know alot about the scientific aspects of the game to be a good player. That's pretty common knowledge. 99% of all professional players play by feel. That feel is created by years of practice and gambling. I get annoyed with these science whizzes who think they know the game better than any player does, because they come up with all these formulas and variations of what happens when a ball skids, when balls collide, and all of that crap that doesn't serve a pool player any purpose but to confuse them. Again, like I said, it's common knowledge to any pool player that knowing all that scientific crap means jack squat. I smell a phony thread created for the purposes of self-esteem issues.


Last Two, this is the only thread I'm going to respond to but I'm going to address multiple issues here from previous posts of yours and others.

This post that you made about deflection and the science geeks is the most lucid thing I've ever seen come out of you and what I've been harping on for years. It was articulate, well thought out, presented in a well spoken fashion, and is 100% on the mark. If we combined forces when the science guys came on, it would spell doom for every and any argument that they could produce because none of that shit matters. And as often I've gone off on a personal rant about this, you've NEVER opted to step in and agree or bolster my opinions once. (The brunt of starting this whole thread)

What you choose to do is attack me personally. BTW, TATE, I guess your fireside fatherly chat didn't do much good in taming your adopted son down. As you can see, he still talks with venom and hatred and knows nothing about me, as you've tried to get me to see the good (whoa...that's a stretch) side of him.

And Last Two, I owe YOU nothing in the way of explanations as to what I've done, who I am, where I've been, what I've experienced, and what my status in life is. Fact is, I've told the story here at various times in different segments and you've chosen to call me a liar on all counts. However, I will.

Wayne and I PM'd each other and I went over a lot of my life and so did he. He's a great guy. Fact is, we're very close to each other in age (5 years, I have him there), he's a successful businessman...I am also and have been for 36 years He owns 3 homes...I own 2 and just bought property on a 3rd to build on and retire. He started playing pool late in life, 8 years ago and achieved a win in a Pechauer tour event which is a rare feat for that age and incredible. I got my first miniature pool table when I was 5 and started sneaking into pool rooms at 14 when you had to be 16. I ran 77 balls in straight pool when I was 20, the primary game back then, not 9 ball. I played in a couple of pro pool tournaments in my life and didn't do too great. Besides, pool tournaments weren't what I was after as much as golf tournaments. I've won my share of those and finished in the money in many others since I am a golf pro and have been for 39 years, along with a golf company and another sports company. I did most of my pool playing for money throughout my life and that's what I was into. This played out many times in seedy rooms that don't even exist in this day and age and you know NOTHING about. I have a 9 ft. Olhausen in my house and shoot a minimum of 3 hours on it daily, along with over $20,000 in cues. In reality, Wayne and I have a lot in common, other than the fact that he took up pool late in life and I took it up early.

In your case, because of the age discrepency and your big know it all flaming mouth that wants to slam me, what I usually say is, "Hey...FUCK you college punk"! And that's really what it comes down to, you're a young college punk/puke that hasn't done jack shit in your life yet except whack off to magazines, wonder if you'll ever get laid again, and ask what the hell you want to do when you grow up. Oh yeah...play pool and tell everyone how good you are and that you snapped off a tournament somewhere. BFD...get a life man. Do something else with it besides dream and call other people liars. Who the hell are you to judge ANYONE at this point? What the fuck have you done? You have my story...you can choose to do what you want with it. You can call me a liar, you can continue on down the route of flaming me, you can do whatever the hell you want with it. I could care less. I've done it...I've had a great life...I have no worries, financial or otherwise. It couldn't be any better.

In your case, you're just starting and have a lonnnnngggg way to go and everyday is an uncertainty. Have fun junior.

What I do know is what REALLY pisses you off because you've mentioned it more than once and it really frosts you...and that's going in the IGNORE file.
So, not only you but everyone now knows where I've been and where I'm coming from. But to you, IGNORE............. Too bad, I really would have liked you to be around for the science geek threads.
 
Drivermaker, As you have been around more coloured pool shooters then I have and seem to have a respect for them, I have a question. Why do you believe their aren't as many well known coloured pool players? I know of a handfull, but I bet there are many many more great shooters out there.

Kent Mc.
 
LastTwo said:
I personally feel that the reason why the term deflection was invented was as an excuse for players when they miss.

I'll drink to that. It's really the pockets fault when I miss.

Chris
 
drivermaker said:
What you choose to do is attack me personally. BTW, TATE, I guess your fireside fatherly chat didn't do much good in taming your adopted son down. As you can see, he still talks with venom and hatred and knows nothing about me, as you've tried to get me to see the good (whoa...that's a stretch) side of him.

It's kind of a hard situation for me to be in, listening to you describe Nat versus the high opinion I have of him as a human being.

Regardless of anyone's personal accomplishments, the bottom line is here on the internet, you are what you post.


Chris
 
I wonder if this guy has ever taken the time to stop and think why I don't like him (mainly the way he acts). To anyone who might be interested, go back though our posts and view the first argument drivermaker and I got into. The crap talking doesn't faze me- at all. Wishing death upon someone, well that's a different story. That's enough to piss Ghandi off.

Drivermaker, (in case you haven't put me on your ignore list yet) where do you get off saying that I don't even know you and make these false assumptions about you? You always do that to me, in fact, you were the first to do that. If you can't take what you dish out, that's a sign of immaturity. I've met countless people who are in their 30's-60's who act like little kids at times. I might have to fit you into that category. The fact of the matter is, I don't give a shit about your accomplishments in life. Not many people here do. For the simple fact that you get so upset when someone doesn't believe you when you talk about them (which is VERY often) shows me that you are insecure. This is the INTERNET for pete's sake, nobody knows who you are. Like Tate said, YOU ARE WHAT YOU POST. You are to me what you post. Where else would I get these impressions about you from? That's right, YOU. Perhaps you should deflate the ego a little bit and you might not get into flame wars so often.
 
drivermaker said:
In your case, you're just starting and have a lonnnnngggg way to go and everyday is an uncertainty. Have fun junior.


Isn't that the beauty of life? I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
pooljunkie73 said:
Drivermaker, As you have been around more coloured pool shooters then I have and seem to have a respect for them, I have a question. Why do you believe their aren't as many well known coloured pool players? I know of a handfull, but I bet there are many many more great shooters out there.

Kent Mc.


I really don't have the answer to that. Other than Hall of Famer Cicero Murphy, they just haven't seemed to care about getting into tournaments to GET known. When you look at all of the professional players of today in ALL of the various tours, where is there more money to be made...in tournaments, in the money rooms, or on the road? I think the answer to that is anything other than tournaments, unless you happen to be one of the top 10 or 15 in the world. And that still has to be bolstered with endorsements, exhibitions, and money games. Very few can get by on tournament winnings alone. If you can make a living at this game as a good road player, whether you're black, white, yellow, or green in skin color, you don't want to BE known. You want to duck in and out of various rooms anonymously under the radar and make your score. Maybe that's a reason.

Another reason could be that they're just smarter and don't get into pool because there's no money in it. It's kinda like the world currency exchange rate and the differences between varying countries money values. Pool dollar winnings don't buy a whole helluva lot of goods when compared to basketball, golf, rap, hip-hop, and plain old fashioned WORK dollars.
 
TATE said:
It's kind of a hard situation for me to be in, listening to you describe Nat versus the high opinion I have of him as a human being.

Regardless of anyone's personal accomplishments, the bottom line is here on the internet, you are what you post.
Chris


Well Chris, since he is on IGNORE and I have no desire to talk to him or even care about his existence, I'll address your post even though it probably won't do any good since you know him personally and have a clear cut bias.

Let me say this one more time and see if it sinks into your skull...I DON'T SEEK HIM OUT OR ADDRESS ANY OF HIS POSTS OR THREADS FIRST. HE, on the other hand, is a young college forum stalker with nothing better to do, who seems to be obsessed with me, and continuously seeks ME out, goes on the attack and provokes a flame war.
AND THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE on the internet and this forum. Do you undersand what I'm saying, or are you like the parent of some young man that just committed a heinous crime that sits there sobbing and saying over and over again, "He was such a good person...he could never do something like that...he didn't mean to do it...everybody in the neighborhood knows that he's a kind and gentle person". No Chris, he is what he is...a POS! An obsessed young college forum stalker.

Here are HIS quotes from this thread after HE came on calling me a racist along with other remarks..."Well, in all honesty, the point of my post was to see if I was still on your ignore list".

Chris, is that sinking into your head? How do you comprehend that statement? To me, the issue wasn't even racism...it was to get my ATTENTION, to see if he was being ignored, to start a personal attack for everyone to see, to get his own recognition, and start degrading me. This is an ongoing and repetitive occurence with him.

He then said, "And driver lay off the insults will ya? Stay away from my ass please". Chris...is that sinking in also. Is that a case of dementia, or what?
LET ME SAY IT AGAIN...I DON'T SEEK HIM OUT. HE STALKS AND SEEKS ME. I stay away from his ass entirely and could care less about saying "BOO" to him let alone insult him unless he starts it, hence why I have him on IGNORE, but removed him erroneously. Yet HE says to stay away, after coming to me... You have a sick puppy there my friend and you need to open your eyes to the other side of him. I don't care what he's like in some pool room

He then later said, "Yes, I admit that this time I came on the thread and started the shit". Well Chris...wake the fuck up!! He's come on EVERY time and started the shit, this was just the first time he admitted it. I don't know if that's progress or what, but it is the truth.

And lastly, nobody else on this forum came on and attacked me about racism, and there are some harsh critics on here that wouldn't hesitate in a heart beat if they felt it was truly the case. First off, LastTwo, your adopted son that you think so highly of, is not the forum police that has the right to mouth off and tell anybody what's right or wrong. Fact is...he doesn't...only with me. I am his obsession and I'm pretty sick of it.

Chris, are you getting this picture yet or are the parental blinders still on to your child's misdeeds?? I think his further and ongoing posts will tell the story, I have no more to say about him or to him. Time will tell where he's coming from though with his words and actions. And it ain't gonna stop......
 
drivermaker said:
Chris, are you getting this picture yet or are the parental blinders still on to your child's misdeeds?? I think his further and ongoing posts will tell the story, I have no more to say about him or to him. Time will tell where he's coming from though with his words and actions. And it ain't gonna stop......

I'm getting the picture that a young man has intellectually poked at you enough to cause you to lose your poise.

If your retort is to compare your life's accomplishments with a man less than half your age, you need to check the mirror.

You are what you post.

Chris
 
TATE said:
I'm getting the picture that a young man has intellectually poked at you enough to cause you to lose your poise.

If your retort is to compare your life's accomplishments with a man less than half your age, you need to check the mirror.

You are what you post.

Chris


So what does that make you...a dumb ass parent(protector) with blinders on to the misdeeds of his young 'un?
 
LOL Chris see how crazy this guy gets? How can this guy have a successful business when he goes absoloutely nuts when someone pushes his buttons? Oh well, I guess I should back off now, I don't want to drag you into a flame war. You are getting dragged in the same exact way that I did when I first argued with this guy. He was insulting a 13 year old kid on this site, I wrote a post telling him to back off, and he went all crazy on me. Wow, I wonder how hard it was for Drivermaker to be successful in so many ways, AND be a paranoid schizophrenic! Someone should make a documentary about him.
 
LastTwo said:
paranoid schizophrenic!.

Last Two,
Since this thread has deteriorated into the non-pool arena, your post reminded me of my favorite poem:

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm a schizophrenic,
and so am I.
 
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