What's Most Important To Know About Playing

LastTwo said:
LOL Chris see how crazy this guy gets? How can this guy have a successful business when he goes absoloutely nuts when someone pushes his buttons? Oh well, I guess I should back off now, I don't want to drag you into a flame war. You are getting dragged in the same exact way that I did when I first argued with this guy. He was insulting a 13 year old kid on this site, I wrote a post telling him to back off, and he went all crazy on me. Wow, I wonder how hard it was for Drivermaker to be successful in so many ways, AND be a paranoid schizophrenic! Someone should make a documentary about him.


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Last two, may I sir make a point, not trying to make side here, but read the rules to post here, no 13 yrs olds are allowed. If one sneaks in, he's fair game. If you knew how many of the little pimple faced nerds kiddies were sitting behind their cpus f***king with you people now, you would just s***.

A huge amount of this trash comes from these imature kids, who think this is funny. WHEN THEY HIDE BEHIND NAMES THEY MAKE UP, THEY CAN BE 13 OR 113, WHO KNOWS.

FL.
 
Williebetmore said:
Last Two,
Since this thread has deteriorated into the non-pool arena, your post reminded me of my favorite poem:

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm a schizophrenic,
and so am I.

Willie, don't forget the classic:

Roses are red,
Violets are gold,
I'm a solipsist,
or so I'm told.
 
Racism

I must be a racist because I hate people who put ketchup on a 20 dollar steak
I must be a racist because I hate people who drive and spend more time looking at you then they do watching the damn road,like Linda Blair in the Exorcist!
I must be a racist because I hate nurses who weigh in access of 240 lbs telling me to lose some weight,quit smoking and drinking and eat a more balanced meal.
What this got to do with race; NOTHING AND THAT IS WHAT THIS FLAME WAR HAS TO DO WITH POOL. NO-SHO
 
sjm said:
Willie, don't forget the classic:

Roses are red,
Violets are gold,
I'm a solipsist,
or so I'm told.

SJM (and NoSho too),
You are correct!! They should change the title of this thread to "Convention of the Solipsists" (and several other ongoing threads involving the King of Solipsists - you know which ones). Well, bye for now, I think I'll check some other threads and see if anyone here is interested in pool.
 
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Williebetmore said:
SJM (and NoSho too),
You are correct!! They should change the title of this thread to "Convention of the Solipsists" (and several other ongoing threads involving the King of Solipsists - you know which ones). Well, bye for now, I think I'll check some other threads and see if anyone here is interested in pool.


Please don't go elsewhere Willee...I started this thread out regarding the correlation of pool and intelligence, something I know you possess. But, I don't remember you making a contribution to the original thread part to keep it going. Was that your intention, did it just solips your mind, or were you just wrapped up in your own little world during all of the excitement?
 
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drivermaker said:
But, I don't remember you making a contribution to the original thread part to keep it going. Was that your intention, did it just solips your mind, or were you just wrapped up in your own little world during all of the excitement?

D'maker,
Actually I didn't contribute because, by page 4, I couldn't remember what the original thread was. To me, the most important thing in pool, by far, is developing a repeatable stroke. As you point out, this includes the process of aiming, aligning, pre-shot routine, and delivering the stroke. Once you have this down cold (and I think very few amateurs do), the rest is easy in comparison. Intellect can be used once the stroke has been perfected, but there just aren't that many shortcuts to developing the perfect stroke. To me, intellect is to be used to shorten the learning process. Why should I waste thousands of hours trying to figure out (perhaps even failing to figure out) something that an instructor can teach me in 10 minutes? The real dead end (as in golf) is thinking you can just find a quick fix for your stroke in a magazine or book, when actually the problem is a basic flaw in the stroke process. There is no substitute for hours at the table, but hours at the table are NOT always sufficient without the proper instruction.

In addition, every top player that I know is an intense, concentrating, thinking machine while playing. If you can get them to think aloud, they are considering a host of issues and strategies at a prodigious rate while they play. The only thing that seems automatic for them is the stroke process itself. Once that is reproducible and stress resistant you are on your way to greatness. To the players I know, being "in the zone", does not mean they are not thinking, it means that they are thinking quickly, clearly, and effortlessly (though it seems not about the stroke process itself, but rather just about the strategy and percentages).
 
Williebetmore said:
D'maker,
Actually I didn't contribute because, by page 4, I couldn't remember what the original thread was. To me, the most important thing in pool, by far, is developing a repeatable stroke. As you point out, this includes the process of aiming, aligning, pre-shot routine, and delivering the stroke. Once you have this down cold (and I think very few amateurs do), the rest is easy in comparison. Intellect can be used once the stroke has been perfected, but there just aren't that many shortcuts to developing the perfect stroke. To me, intellect is to be used to shorten the learning process. Why should I waste thousands of hours trying to figure out (perhaps even failing to figure out) something that an instructor can teach me in 10 minutes? The real dead end (as in golf) is thinking you can just find a quick fix for your stroke in a magazine or book, when actually the problem is a basic flaw in the stroke process. There is no substitute for hours at the table, but hours at the table are NOT always sufficient without the proper instruction.

In addition, every top player that I know is an intense, concentrating, thinking machine while playing. If you can get them to think aloud, they are considering a host of issues and strategies at a prodigious rate while they play. The only thing that seems automatic for them is the stroke process itself. Once that is reproducible and stress resistant you are on your way to greatness. To the players I know, being "in the zone", does not mean they are not thinking, it means that they are thinking quickly, clearly, and effortlessly (though it seems not about the stroke process itself, but rather just about the strategy and percentages).


Good post...now I'm glad I didn't let you solips by without a response, especially the instruction part. We could all use more from an outside set of eyes, especially Tiger.
 
Williebetmore said:
D'maker,
Actually I didn't contribute because, by page 4, I couldn't remember what the original thread was. To me, the most important thing in pool, by far, is developing a repeatable stroke. As you point out, this includes the process of aiming, aligning, pre-shot routine, and delivering the stroke. Once you have this down cold (and I think very few amateurs do), the rest is easy in comparison. Intellect can be used once the stroke has been perfected, but there just aren't that many shortcuts to developing the perfect stroke. To me, intellect is to be used to shorten the learning process. Why should I waste thousands of hours trying to figure out (perhaps even failing to figure out) something that an instructor can teach me in 10 minutes? The real dead end (as in golf) is thinking you can just find a quick fix for your stroke in a magazine or book, when actually the problem is a basic flaw in the stroke process. There is no substitute for hours at the table, but hours at the table are NOT always sufficient without the proper instruction.

In addition, every top player that I know is an intense, concentrating, thinking machine while playing. If you can get them to think aloud, they are considering a host of issues and strategies at a prodigious rate while they play. The only thing that seems automatic for them is the stroke process itself. Once that is reproducible and stress resistant you are on your way to greatness. To the players I know, being "in the zone", does not mean they are not thinking, it means that they are thinking quickly, clearly, and effortlessly (though it seems not about the stroke process itself, but rather just about the strategy and percentages).


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yES WILLIE, the public does not understand the zone, Hogan was so deep in it, one day he was playing with LOU wORSHAM, He outdrove hogan by a mile. Hogan comes up on a par 4, as usual, 270 down the friggen dead center, Lou 300 yrs out. Hogan hits a 7 iron 10' away, Lou hits a wedge that backs up for a deuce eagle, the crowd goes beserk. Hogan as usual does not even catch the cup and 2 putts for his usual par. On the next tee, in those day they kept each others score, Hogan looks over to Lou and said, what did you have. He was that deep in the zone. The fans hated Hogans guts, because he was the best. Only when he got ran over by a bus and was in the hospital and came back to win, did the fans then embrace him, when he became less than a god and mortal.

61, this fat kid is playin AP for the open. The king said no rookie fat kid can win the open first time out, it cant be done. The fat kid was so deep into the zone, he never smiled, always had this poker face like Hogan. On the last hole the king tries to reach the par 5 in two hitting driver driver and fails to get home, being one down and trying to tie and stay alive. The kid, supposed to do something dumb like hit driver driver, hits 1 iron, 1 iron, wedge, birdie to win by 2. Fat Jack was born and the fans hated his guts, because he was too good, like Hogan, and because he killed off their hero, ap.
It was not till 72, when he lost weight, learned to smile, ap was then out of it, the public embraced him, he had to endure 11 years of fan abuse that was terrible and discraceful.

Earl is going through that today, perhaps he can run his jag U war, under a greyhound bus, hide in the hospital for a year, come back and kick efrens ass and then the fans will love him. Fans are fickle, they are like women, never try and figure them out. You can't live with them, you can't live without them.

Fast Larry Guninger
 
i see too many frustrated players who think their best game is their average game.
 
ramdadingdong said:
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yES WILLIE, the public does not understand the zone, Hogan was so deep in it, one day he was playing with LOU wORSHAM, He outdrove hogan by a mile. Hogan as usual does not even catch the cup and 2 putts for his usual par. On the next tee, in those day they kept each others score, Hogan looks over to Lou and said, what did you have. He was that deep in the zone. The fans hated Hogans guts, because he was the best.

Fat Jack was born and the fans hated his guts, because he was too good, like Hogan, and because he killed off their hero, ap.
It was not till 72, when he lost weight, learned to smile, ap was then out of it, the public embraced him, he had to endure 11 years of fan abuse that was terrible and discraceful.

Fast Larry Guninger

FL,
I've been lucky enough to play several rounds with Lew Worsham while he was the pro at Oakmont (I grew up as part of Arnie's Army in Pittsburgh) - a great guy (though with that old 60's equipment I don't remember him being a very long hitter). There are a lot of stories like that about Hogan. In Byron Nelson's autobiography he describes making a hole in one on #12 at Augusta while playing with Hogan (Hogan birdied). On the 13th tee, Hogan comes up to Byron (who was expecting some congratulations) and said something to the effect of, "You know Byron, that's the first time I've ever birdied this hole." He was intense.
 
Williebetmore said:
FL,
I've been lucky enough to play several rounds with Lew Worsham while he was the pro at Oakmont (I grew up as part of Arnie's Army in Pittsburgh) -


Willee...When and where were you there? I was born, raised, and started my professional career in the surrounding Pittsburgh area. Fact is, I just went back and spent 3 weeks there.
 
Williebetmore said:
FL,
I've been lucky enough to play several rounds with Lew Worsham while he was the pro at Oakmont (I grew up as part of Arnie's Army in Pittsburgh) - a great guy (though with that old 60's equipment I don't remember him being a very long hitter). There are a lot of stories like that about Hogan. In Byron Nelson's autobiography he describes making a hole in one on #12 at Augusta while playing with Hogan (Hogan birdied). On the 13th tee, Hogan comes up to Byron (who was expecting some congratulations) and said something to the effect of, "You know Byron, that's the first time I've ever birdied this hole." He was intense.

Willie, one of my favorite Ben Hogan quotes is as applicable to the pool player as the golfer.

Hogan said "Every time I look up, I see a bad shot!"

Whether you play pool or golf, stay down on your shot!
 
Williebetmore said:
FL,
I've been lucky enough to play several rounds with Lew Worsham while he was the pro at Oakmont (I grew up as part of Arnie's Army in Pittsburgh) - a great guy (though with that old 60's equipment I don't remember him being a very long hitter). There are a lot of stories like that about Hogan. In Byron Nelson's autobiography he describes making a hole in one on #12 at Augusta while playing with Hogan (Hogan birdied). On the 13th tee, Hogan comes up to Byron (who was expecting some congratulations) and said something to the effect of, "You know Byron, that's the first time I've ever birdied this hole." He was intense.


yES SIR, THERE ARE SO MANY EXAMPLES OF THIS WITH hOGAN, YOU SEE IT OVER AND OVER, HE WAS TRULY DEEP IN THE ZONE WHEN HE PLAYED. I never played the man, but I did caddy for him one round, I was never so terrified in all my life, jug said to me if you speak to him, or try to club him, i'll pull out my .38 from my bag and shoot you, speak when spoken to Yes you are right, Lou was like trevino, short but in the fairway, he was one of the bombers of the day, senior moment, his name now escapes me, I have CRS,
CAN REMEMBER S***. This guy was a gorilla like Dent. Big guy, like 6' 6".
He could hit it into tomorrow. The 13th, at Augusta, played it twice, when the wind come down off the hill from augusta cc, you have to pick your spot and guess, is it a easy 6, a hard 7, you could be right at launch, hit the perfect shot, then the winds puts you in the sand or rays creek. The damn greeen is 11 paces wide, that is like trying to hit your living room which is rock hard. Most greens today are 35 to 40' wide or long. If you arrive there with the lead, you are pissing down your leg, you know, on the whims of the Gods, you are a hero or a dog, and you must let it fly and accept your destiny.
 
FL,
Maybe you are thinking of George Baer, longest hitter in the 50's until Arnie and Jack came around.

D'maker,
I lived in Pittsburgh from '61 til '78. Grew up playing at Montour Heights (the country club right across the Parkway from the airport, gone now - there is nothing that bothers me on the golf course or the pool table after years of playing with jets flying low right over your head). In the Palmer league we competed against teams from all the other fancy clubs (we were the worst, but may have had more fun - we always stomped them, however in gin and bridge) - for my money there are more great courses around Pittsburgh than anywhere. The climate is perfect for growing lush grass and cutting it SHORT. The hills are perfect for laying out devilish courses. The best is certainly not Oakmont (BORING) - I'll take Sewickley Heights anyday. DANG, I'm getting nostalgic, I'm out.
 
Williebetmore said:
FL,
Maybe you are thinking of George Baer, longest hitter in the 50's until Arnie and Jack came around.

D'maker,
I lived in Pittsburgh from '61 til '78. Grew up playing at Montour Heights (the country club right across the Parkway from the airport, gone now - there is nothing that bothers me on the golf course or the pool table after years of playing with jets flying low right over your head). In the Palmer league we competed against teams from all the other fancy clubs (we were the worst, but may have had more fun - we always stomped them, however in gin and bridge) - for my money there are more great courses around Pittsburgh than anywhere. The climate is perfect for growing lush grass and cutting it SHORT. The hills are perfect for laying out devilish courses. The best is certainly not Oakmont (BORING) - I'll take Sewickley Heights anyday. DANG, I'm getting nostalgic, I'm out.


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Oh yes, I played all of them. Yes ap was my hero, but fat jack could hit it so far past him it was illegal. I hated his ass for that, It took me 20 years to recover and understand how and why I was wrong. He crushed my hero, I harted his ass for that. He was too friggen good. I hated Maris for smoking my hero mantle, I had to spend some couch time to work through this bull sh**
Big George, Thanks, that was da gorilla, golf always had one, when fat jack came on, he killed of the long drive contests, nobody was in his league. When I caddied for him in 67, using the old dead ball, hitting his 945 driver, he was flying his driver 300 yards in the air, he could fly his Mcgregor vip 1 iron 250 and hit a green, all ap had was 230. he could nail a par 3, that was 275 with a 3 wood. Tiger has nothing on him. This guy, was not human. He was from, another planet, every one believed that.
 
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Williebetmore said:
FL,
Maybe you are thinking of George Baer, longest hitter in the 50's until Arnie and Jack came around.

D'maker,
I lived in Pittsburgh from '61 til '78. Grew up playing at Montour Heights (the country club right across the Parkway from the airport, gone now - there is nothing that bothers me on the golf course or the pool table after years of playing with jets flying low right over your head). In the Palmer league we competed against teams from all the other fancy clubs (we were the worst, but may have had more fun - we always stomped them, however in gin and bridge) - for my money there are more great courses around Pittsburgh than anywhere. The climate is perfect for growing lush grass and cutting it SHORT. The hills are perfect for laying out devilish courses. The best is certainly not Oakmont (BORING) - I'll take Sewickley Heights anyday. DANG, I'm getting nostalgic, I'm out.


Willee...You and I are from the same neck of the woods. I grew up in Ambridge and we used to play golf against Moon HS. I remember when I was playing as a junior against a kid named Tom Vernosi (sp), a big tall strapping kid who could hit it a mile. At that time I was a short little skinny kid and he beat me like a damn drum in that match. We still won the match, but I got pummeled. It was great though, it just made me practice harder and get better. Now here's the real kicker...during my teen years I caddied at Sewickley Heights and where I then started my career as an assistant pro.
I agree with you...to me, Sewickley Heights is the best and most ass kicking course in the area. I could play there every day of my life and be in pig slop heaven and never get tired of it. When they played the last senior tour event in Pittsburgh that has now been dropped, they were at Sewickley Hghts. and I went to watch it. (late 90's). Larry Nelson shot 65-65 on Sat. and Sunday. Can you believe or fathom that??!!

When I was there for 3 weeks recently, I played all of the public courses like Venango Trail, Blackhawk, and Rolling Acres. And played two private clubs, Churchill Valley CC, and Nevillewood CC, both beautiful layouts.

There is still a real old dingy pool room in Aliquippa that I used to play at in the early 60's where I went to shoot pool also. Most of the tables are old Brunswicks that were purchased new in the mid 30's, with wooden floors, and old style theatre seats for railbirds. I don't think the cloth has been changed since then either, but it's great. BTW, if you have the book "Shooting Pool" by Shamos/Bennett, go to page 76 for a picture of it. To the right of the sign "pool players only in this area" in the darkened part of the photo, there are another 8 tables. Originally back in the 30's it was a bowling alley, hence the wooden floors. This place was hustlers paradise back in the early and mid 60's. Money games were always going on and one of the rooms where I cut my teeth. The pool room was originally located next door in another building. They tore the building down and moved the pool room into the bowling area. Talk about nostalgia.......
 
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