What's so great about 13mm shafts?

PhilosopherKing

PhilosopherKing

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I can't for the life of me play with one, just too unwieldy.

Industry standard... Industry shmanard!

From what I understand, most pros use shafts well below that mark.

I don't get it.
 
PhilosopherKing said:
I can't for the life of me play with one, just too unwieldy.

Industry standard... Industry shmanard!

From what I understand, most pros use shafts well below that mark.

I don't get it.
Click to expand...

If the industry standard was 12mm. Everyone using a 13mm shaft would be screwed.
You can take wood away, but you can't add wood.
 
I think it tends to be the standard because it's the largest size that people commonly want to play. Not many people want to play with a shaft larger than 13mm it seems, but a good number do like shafts right around 13mm so I'm sure it became the safe standard size to offer because anyone can have the shaft taken down from there, but if you offer a 12.5mm shaft as stock then you've pretty much guaranteed that people who like larger shafts won't be buying your cue (talking about stock production cues here).

I think that attitude that 13mm is the standard has then influenced the resale market for custom cues which drives a lot of people to get custom cues with shafts that size.

I currently play 13mm shafts (or just under), have only played smaller shafts a few times but I think I'm ready to move down a little on my next cue. I have a cue that I'll probably be getting sometime this summer and I think I'll go with a pair of 12.5mm shafts...resale be damned, I plan on keeping it.
 
DAVE_M said:
If the industry standard was 12mm. Everyone using a 13mm shaft would be screwed.
You can take wood away, but you can't add wood.
Click to expand...

I hear you.

what I don't understand is how all these people are playing with them.

Centerball players?
 
DAVE_M said:
If the industry standard was 12mm. Everyone using a 13mm shaft would be screwed.
You can take wood away, but you can't add wood.
Click to expand...

Use duct tape. It works for everything!

I suspect 13mm is considered the industry standard because it's the most common size used on house cues. At one time, and probably still true today, the majority of people who played pool used a house cue. It had to accommodate a wide variety of users.
 
PhilosopherKing said:
I hear you.

what I don't understand is how all these people are playing with them.

Centerball players?
Click to expand...

No. Think outside of the box.
Just because you can't play with it, doesn't mean that other people can't.

I prefer to play with 12.75mm.
I originally played with a 12.4mm shaft, then 12.25mm.
I ended up with 12.75mm, because that's how my shafts are made.
Anyone can play with a 14mm shaft just as well as with a 11mm shaft (with practice).
It's preference ;)

BTW, my cue is 65" long, weighs 23oz, and has a 30" long shaft with a 15" pro taper and a 12.75mm tip. That's what I prefer to play with.
 
bdorman said:
I suspect 13mm is considered the industry standard because it's the most common size used on house cues. At one time, and probably still true today, the majority of people who played pool used a house cue. It had to accommodate a wide variety of users.
Click to expand...
Is that right? I was under the impression that most house cues 1. Had a more conical taper and 2. Had a <13mm diameter at the tip.
 
PhilosopherKing said:
I hear you.

what I don't understand is how all these people are playing with them.

Centerball players?
Click to expand...

13mm shafts aren't really hard to play with...not sure why you'd say "centerball players"? You can get plenty of spin with a 13mm shaft in my experience, assuming the same tip radius the only thing that is changing is the feel of the shaft in your hand and a slight change in flex and weight.
 
bdorman said:
Use duct tape. It works for everything!

I suspect 13mm is considered the industry standard because it's the most common size used on house cues. At one time, and probably still true today, the majority of people who played pool used a house cue. It had to accommodate a wide variety of users.
Click to expand...

I play mostly with house cues. I believe dufferin and valley house cues to be below 13.
 
slide13 said:
13mm shafts aren't really hard to play with...not sure why you'd say "centerball players"? You can get plenty of spin with a 13mm shaft in my experience, assuming the same tip radius the only thing that is changing is the feel of the shaft in your hand and a slight change in flex and weight.
Click to expand...

there's also a visual problem for me with thicker shafts. it's like I can't see enough of the cue ball... weird, considering we're talking a difference of less than 2mm at most.
 
Two or three weeks ago I pulled out my snooker cue (which never gets to play snooker :frown:), and decided to practice with it. It has a 9.5mm tip. Well, I have been practicing only with it now for those two or three weeks. I wanted to get past that novelty point (You know how it is, whenever you pick up a new cue you just bought, or you're considering buying, it just seems to play so well? The implied explanation being that, since it's new to you, you're paying much closer attention to the details that you normally, after 'getting used to it', begin to ignore.)

So, anyway, I've been playing with it now for quite a while, and I think I'm past that point, but it still seems to be treating me so much better than my regular (13mm) cue. I love the feeling of precision when I'm picking out the spot on the cue ball where I want to hit. My stroke feels straighter (probably due to the fact that I play with the chevrons lined up under my eye). And I just feel like I am in control in a way that eludes me with my regular stick.

Don't get me wrong, I play pretty well with my 13mm stick, but there definitely is something going on with the snooker cue that is absent from the larger shaft.

Comments?
 
p.s. I realize that my post is drifting from the OP's question... but I really think that it has been correctly answered by previous posters.
 
swest said:
p.s. I realize that my post is drifting from the OP's question... but I really think that it has been correctly answered by previous posters.
Click to expand...

it wasn't really a question. it was an opening to a discussion. your post is relevant to the subject. thank you for it.

for those of you who choose to play with a 13mm shaft, what are the qualities that make this your preference.
 
slide13 said:
13mm shafts aren't really hard to play with...not sure why you'd say "centerball players"? You can get plenty of spin with a 13mm shaft in my experience, assuming the same tip radius the only thing that is changing is the feel of the shaft in your hand and a slight change in flex and weight.
Click to expand...

i think a lot of the newer, off-brand, and lower-end house cues are 13mm with a longer "pro-taper"

in my experience, hiruns and supremes used to be less than 13
 
slide13 said:
13mm shafts aren't really hard to play with...not sure why you'd say "centerball players"? You can get plenty of spin with a 13mm shaft in my experience, assuming the same tip radius the only thing that is changing is the feel of the shaft in your hand and a slight change in flex and weight.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. The BEST money player I ever saw used a 14mm tip and got me to using one. I have used 14mm tips from the early 70s up until a year or so back when I got my old cue refinished and McDermott took it down a bit to "even" it out. Now it is about 13mm.

I don't know why people think you CAN'T put English on a cue ball with a larger tip. Masse cues seem to do a pretty good job and they are almost exclusively 14/15mm or even 16mm. People used to call me "Monster Stroke" because I could put so much English on the cue ball. They couldn't believe it when I was able to draw the cue ball several table lengths with a 14mm tip. It is all in the stroke, not all in the size of the tip.

For what it's worth, the 14mm drives smooth like a Caddilac when you are using center ball.

If you are using TOI most of the time it is similar to center ball and you won't be needing to "spin" the cue ball as much anyway.

You SHOULDN'T have to put a lot of the spin on the ball except for rare occasions if you know how to play position correctly. Spinning the ball should be reserved for breaking out clusters or getting around balls that are in the way for that particular shot. Once you get back in line, you should avoid spinning the ball until it is necessary again.

Aloha.
 
13mm shafts

Very good question and I often ask myself and friends the same thing. So far I've never received a rational answer. I'd really like to know where the 13mm "standard" came from as well. I hit snooker balls a lot which requires a lot of accuracy as anyone ever trying it well knows. When I go to the pool cue the shaft seems like a log and much too large. Even when the relative diameter and weight of of the pool balls/snooker balls are taken into consideration the 13 mm shafts still seem too large proportionally. Many of my serious pool playing friends prefer less than 13mm as do many pros, at least those I've talked to. I suppose it depends on the game you play and the skill level and style of play but to me the 13mm. shaft diameter seems completely arbitrary. Seems to me it's more a matter of resale than anything because I see no playing advantage. Before anyone feels compelled to defend 13 mm shafts and tell me how great they play let me say "if it works use it". Performance and confidence are the important things. Personally I feel 13mm is to large, with no logic or basis in physics or measurable performance to support the arbitrary standard. However, there are the matters of feedback and personal preference independent of physics and logic. Maybe it's a carry over from earlier times when cues tended to be bigger and heavier and straight pool was the game. Not sure you'll find an rational logical answer other "than that's just the way it is", which is neither logical nor rational.

barryc
 
I've done quite a number of century plus runs at snooker using a 13.25mm tip. Please don't put everyone in the same box. I don't feel that I can properly stabilize a skinny shaft (anything much under 13mm).
 
13 mm

When I was young, I was told a 13mm tip properly shaped put the best amount of surface on the cue ball to get your required english/hit. It was easier to be more consistent. I like anywhere from 12.8-13.0,
 
I play, and have played for years with a 13mm shaft. We are talking maple, not the engineered/laminated shafts.

I prefer the stiffer hit as when the shaft gets too small, it become very whippy. As far as spin goes, the size of the shaft has very little to do with it. I can spin, and get way out on the side of the cue ball just as well as someone with a smaller diameter shaft. It's all in the stroke and timing.
 
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