Official BCAPL response...
...may not necessarily be appropriate here, but anytime the term "BCA" is thrown around I feel it necessary to make sure there is no misunderstanding about BCAPL rules (see disclaimers for details).
In the OP's situation in BCAPL play, Player A comes to the table with an open table.
The key in BCAPL play is the definition of "illegally pocketed ball". The process is simple:
- Groups can only be decided when a ball is legally pocketed after the break;
- By definition under BCAPL Rule 2.8, balls pocketed on a safety are illegally pocketed balls;
- also under BCAPL Rule 2.8, your inning ends after a safety.
This observation is also key: nowhere in BCAPL rules is there a provision that makes called shots and safety shots mutually exclusive. While there may be no apparent reason to call a ball and call a safety at the same time, it is not prohibited by the rules. That, coupled with the general principle that anything not prohibited by the rules cannot be used as grounds for calling a foul or otherwise penalizing a player, presents no reason for preventing a player from calling a ball and a safety.
However, calling the safety incurs the conditions of a safety, regardless of the fact that the ball was called and pocketed.
More importantly, a simple extension of the logic and reasoning used by BCAPL (and most other rule sets, including VNEA) in the provisions of call shot games does not support making called shots and safeties mutually exclusive. Consider for a moment: by definition,
all shots in these games are actually called shots. It's just that we forego the formality of announcing the "obvious" ones - also a provision under most rule sets.
(deep breath - bear with me here) If the shot in the OP's scenario was a simple, straight-in short shot and the shooter was not playing safe, he would probably
not call the shot, since it would be obvious.
The fact that he did not verbalize his intent does not make the shot a "non-called" shot. It is still a called shot, since this is a call shot game. It just means he did not state it because it was obvious.
Now, if he calls a safety on that same shot, all he is doing is attaching a modifier to the called shot, and that modifier is that the shot is a safety. Again, the fact that he did not call the obvious shot on which he announced the safety does not make it a "non-called" shot.
So what difference could it make if he does bother to say "6 in the corner"
and "safety"? The circumstances have not changed a lick. It is no different in principle than if he had simply called the safety or if he had played an obvious shot without calling it.
The bottom line is that as long as you enforce the consequences of calling the safety, it should not matter whether or not the shot is called. It certainly makes no difference in BCAPL play, since the ball is clearly defined as being illegally pocketed.
Again, I cannot speak definitvely for VNEA.
Nor can I speak definitively for WSR. I could prior to 2008 - it was enforced the same way BCAPL is now. I do not know the current WSR interpretation, since the 2008 WSR no longer defines "illegally pocketed ball" and no longer addresses the consequences of pocketing a ball on a safety in relation to choosing groups. It would appear, from a literal reading of WSR Rules 3.4, 3.6 and 8.17, that groups
can be established on a safety. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
On a side note, daphish1 quotes an archaic rule set. Everyone use caution - there are still many links out there to the pre-2008 WSR. 8-ball is addressed under Section 3 of the current WSR. They are here:
http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_tournament
and the BCAPL rules are here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
:smile:
P.S. Jude - I have STILL not forgotten about the other question.
I promise I will try to get to it soon...
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee (WOW!! very humbled to be promoted
)
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net
Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.4.3 and 9.4.4 apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* There is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules". The BCA does not edit nor is responsible for the content of the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
