KJ Cues said:
Perhaps a bit angular to the topic
, but would you think a Layani conical jointed cue would be less likely to separate ?http://www.layanicues.com/ ... click on Technology
Dave
What's the theory behind a piloted joint?
- Thread starter Impact Blue
- Start date
Perhaps a bit angular to the topic
, but would you think a Layani conical jointed cue would be less likely to separate ?http://www.layanicues.com/ ... click on Technology
Dave
DaveK said:Perhaps a bit angular to the topic
http://www.layanicues.com/ ... click on Technology
Dave
Or the Dufferin signature joint?
Amazingly, those are the two examples that I had in mind which prompted me to use the word 'almost'. However, please be mindful that each of the examples has it's own unique drawbacks, at least in my mind anyway.
I can read the Layani technical drawings but French is a language that I never learned. I do speak a little Canadian though.
I can read the Layani technical drawings but French is a language that I never learned. I do speak a little Canadian though.
Nevermind......
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KJ Cues said:
What would you say is one about the Layani joint? just outta curiosity; I've never heard of them before.
And their website has an english link and format, I just found. Get me one fitted with an OB-2, damn, I'd like to see that.
The concept of joining tapers is somewhat appealing for this application. I also feel that it would yield a superior 'A' joint.
There has to be a high degree of precision here as ill-fitting parts would quickly defeat the purpose. However, the amount of phenolic and stainless steel DOES NOT appeal to me. I prefer the natural harmonics of wood. I feel that CMs are very fortunate to have a mtrl. to work with that produces such sweet resonance. The world's most sought after musical instruments are made of wood for a reason. This is also true for cues.
If you want an OB on a Layani then go get yourself one. I want nothing to do with it. Sorry, but it's no secret that I'm opinionated.
There has to be a high degree of precision here as ill-fitting parts would quickly defeat the purpose. However, the amount of phenolic and stainless steel DOES NOT appeal to me. I prefer the natural harmonics of wood. I feel that CMs are very fortunate to have a mtrl. to work with that produces such sweet resonance. The world's most sought after musical instruments are made of wood for a reason. This is also true for cues.
If you want an OB on a Layani then go get yourself one. I want nothing to do with it. Sorry, but it's no secret that I'm opinionated.
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Impact Blue said:
Actually I have installed many OB1 shafts with my joints. For your information, I will have on my new website (coming soon hopefully)a section that is actually the results of a study made by a graduate student in mechanical engineering who decided to make his project on the impact of different joints on resonance and power transmission in different cues. The results go in the direction of this thread and as I had intuitionned in the past the conical joint seems to do better. But as KJ Cues mentionned the fitting is very tough to achieve and it took us quite a few years to be able to achieve this adequately. As for the materials used the problem is that wood cannot maintain the tolerances needed for such a type of machining (male cone) and for the female cone it would likely split because of the pressure applied by the cone. And as far has having a "wood feel" sincerely I don't think it would be possible to distinguish a "wood feel" from the conical joint feel or any other because of the way the vibration is transmitted. Don't forget that two pieces of wood pressed against each other does not make for a one piece feel because there's no cellular continuity or even grain continuity. The best example is Predator shaft or OB1 shaft, they do not feel the same as a one piece shaft. Anyway, when I can publish the study (it's in french so I have to translate it) I'll post a link here. It's interesting information for those who care about this types of things.
It would seem to me that once a cue is screwed together and you hit a ball that the compression load is acting mainly on the faces. Call me crazy but as long as everything is accurate and faced correctly I'm not sure it really matters what type of joint you use. There are a lot of opinions about what is "best" in a cue and some players may prefer one cues hit or feel over another but so much of this is very subjective. If you hand anyone a beautiful, expensive new cue from a well known top cue maker and let them hit some balls with it their immediate reaction will probably be something like, "Wow, this cue has a great hit." Ask them to define "great hit" and they probably won't be able to.
Here's the bottom line, if you give a top professional player (or an average player for that matter) a well made, straight, cue with a flat faced joint and the identical cue with a piloted joint it's probably not going to make any difference in their performance on the table as long as they are used to the cue. Willie Mosconi ran 526 balls in 1954 with an "old tech" cue. Would he have run 527 or 550 if he had a "Southwest" joint pin or a radially laminated shaft or a modern laminated tip? Who knows, but I think the point is that there may be no "best" when it comes to many things about cues. The cue doesn't make the player excel the player makes the cue excel. For the top players the "best" cue is probably the one with the best sponsorship deal attached to it, piloted joint or no piloted joint. Just food for thought, you guys all make cues that I would be proud to own and if your customers are happy with their cues then whatever you are doing is working.
Here's the bottom line, if you give a top professional player (or an average player for that matter) a well made, straight, cue with a flat faced joint and the identical cue with a piloted joint it's probably not going to make any difference in their performance on the table as long as they are used to the cue. Willie Mosconi ran 526 balls in 1954 with an "old tech" cue. Would he have run 527 or 550 if he had a "Southwest" joint pin or a radially laminated shaft or a modern laminated tip? Who knows, but I think the point is that there may be no "best" when it comes to many things about cues. The cue doesn't make the player excel the player makes the cue excel. For the top players the "best" cue is probably the one with the best sponsorship deal attached to it, piloted joint or no piloted joint. Just food for thought, you guys all make cues that I would be proud to own and if your customers are happy with their cues then whatever you are doing is working.