What's wrong with our sport as I see it, and how to correct it.

[skogstokig]

Pool is hands on entertainment only - beginner or pro
As far as a viewing experience, it has basically none - same as a crap game
A game of pool will not generate a fabulous event -
A fabulous event can feature a game of pool -


bill

i disagree. look at snooker, it has a tremendous viewership and following. forty years ago it was down the drain, the audience was sitting on camping chairs in a poorly lit room. some great people came along and lifted it up. i really recommend reading about its history.

i don't buy that pool is that different. less intricate, yes, but that has an upside - it's faster. i know people who watches mosconi cup and who watched IPT but don't even play pool. that says something too. pool doesn't reach enough people at its current state, but if it did i bet a whole lot of people would get an interest they didn't even know about.

that's how snooker got me, zapping around for anything sport, and after a few matches i was hooked. i had never heard about snooker. people, or some people i should say, are just fascinated to see what happens when balls collide

 

[S.Vaskovskyi]

i disagree. look at snooker, it has a tremendous viewership and following. forty years ago it was down the drain, the audience was sitting on camping chairs in a poorly lit room. some great people came along and lifted it up. i really recommend reading about its history.

i don't buy that pool is that different. less intricate, yes, but that has an upside - it's faster. i know people who watches mosconi cup and who watched IPT but don't even play pool. that says something too. pool doesn't reach enough people at its current state, but if it did i bet a whole lot of people would get an interest they didn't even know about.

that's how snooker got me, zapping around for anything sport, and after a few matches i was hooked. i had never heard about snooker. people, or some people i should say, are just fascinated to see what happens when balls collide

Glad I'm not alone with the same point of view

 

[garczar]

is that a problem? and if so, why would it be

No problem whatsoever. I was just making a statement. I wish that Greg from Diamond, Barry H. and Darren A. would all sit down and hammer out the details for a new tour. Nothing against Rasson but i'd like to see a U.S. tour using Amer.-built tables. The reason i mention Darren is because his WPS series seems to be off to a good start and that him and Barry could really do something big. Dreamin?? Probably but still hoping. BTW, RKC would be the "table czar" if i had my tour. Not ONE ball would be hit without him signing-off on the equipment.

 

[realkingcobra]

No problem whatsoever. I was just making a statement. I wish that Greg from Diamond, Barry H. and Darren A. would all sit down and hammer out the details for a new tour. Nothing against Rasson but i'd like to see a U.S. tour using Amer.-built tables. The reason i mention Darren is because his WPS series seems to be off to a good start and that him and Barry could really do something big. Dreamin?? Probably but still hoping. BTW, RKC would be the "table czar" if i had my tour. Not ONE ball would be hit without him signing-off on the equipment.

You can NOT create a pro tour until you FIRST stop the fact that anyone with an entry fee can play in the tour events!!

 

[realkingcobra]

No problem whatsoever. I was just making a statement. I wish that Greg from Diamond, Barry H. and Darren A. would all sit down and hammer out the details for a new tour. Nothing against Rasson but i'd like to see a U.S. tour using Amer.-built tables. The reason i mention Darren is because his WPS series seems to be off to a good start and that him and Barry could really do something big. Dreamin?? Probably but still hoping. BTW, RKC would be the "table czar" if i had my tour. Not ONE ball would be hit without him signing-off on the equipment.

Nice idea, but unless they can come up with a disposable income, I don't see how all of them working together can make a change.

My idea is simply this. The King Cobra adhesive has 4 potential industries it can find a home in, billiards, cabinet manufacturing, the auto repair industry, and the general public use of spray glue.

Sales of my adhesive in these areas would allow my company to collect the profits, of which I solely am in control of, to do what ever I wish as it's my income.

If I can pull off the project I'm working on right now, I'll have the funding needed to help guide pool into the future, but I have to start small, and by small I mean with 16 revolving Pro players. They have to submit a skill level test that places them at the top of the score sheet so to speak, which would identify them as Pros, but those scores won't keep them in the top 16 as more players test, and provide higher scores, they'll be taking the place of those who have been playing monthly, but that don't drop the previous pros off the list of pros, it just bumps them down out of the top 16. When sponsoring monthly pro events, not all the top 16 are going to be able to commit to the .monthly events, so a depth of pros will be needed to draw from as to insure there's always 16 pros playing in every monthly event. The first round of play needs to match up each pro with a local player as to involve the players in that pro tour stop area a chance to play one of the pros, but giving a local a chance to play a pro, is not the same as the local having a chance to win some of the guaranteed prize money, UNLESS the local player wins the match against the pro, in which case the pro player lost their right to get paid, and that right gets transferred to the local player by taking the place of the pro for the rest of the event. This extra round of play will turn the pro tour stop into a Sat/Sun event. Since all pros get paid in steps by the round the lose in, there should be no problem in requiring them to remain and give their support until the event has concluded. The pro tour stop needs to start out at $500 16-9 $1,000 8-5 $2,000 4-3 $4,000 2nd, and $8,000 winner, 12 times a year. The pros need to step up and support this pro tour stop beginning in order to see it grow and become more organized. As additional sales income increases on my end, so shall the prize money as well as additional pro players competing as the field of pros will then grow to 32 players per tour stop, with even more pro players on the alternate player list. Meanwhile as sales increase, I'll be working on opening the worlds first pool event center designed for live broadcasting to the world in the Hope's of gaining some world viewers, willing to pay a monthly subscription to watch the pro events broadcast live, in which those revenues then start being used to support professional pool players as well.

 

[realkingcobra]

Here's the biggest reason why so many viewers are no longer showing up to watch pool tournaments!

The major problem is people don't really like leaving home much anymore. Shopping malls are dying because the shoppers are shopping online more now than ever, no need to go out shopping anymore, and it's declining more and more every year. You have to solve the problem of getting the pool events in front of that stay at home viewer now, and as advertisers are declining to support the free TV viewing, instead turning to internet advertising, free TV isn't so cheap by the hour for pool events anymore, so THAT is why pool isn't played on TV anymore.

And THAT is why pool needs to be broadcast from an event center, as to bring it into the viewers means of watching, live on the internet, THAT is where they're going to for their entertainment, not to a shithole pool room, or bar, Can't get a DUI if you drink at home with your friends. Pro events have to be put in FRONT of the viewers, it has to GO to them, the viewers don't want to have to leave home after getting off work! Why does anyone think Amazon is expanding so fast, and becoming such a giant in the home delivery services....because people DON'T want to have to leave home to seek out their entertainment, unless it's something they can't get delivered to where they live! There's millions of stay at home viewers, we just have to get pool out in front of them, in their comfort zone. There's more pool tables in homes there there could EVER be in commercial locations....we need to take advantage of that fact, not just blow it off because they don't want to show up at the local pool hall on a weekend to watch a pool tournament....with who's playing in it again?

 

[AtLarge]

... The reason i mention Darren is because his WPS series seems to be off to a good start ...

I do wonder about that. He has been able to hold 7 events so far, with the 2nd-year Grand Final hopefully coming up in a couple months. So that's certainly an accomplishment. But the only event that came close to filling the hoped-for field was the first. Here's the number of entrants for the 7 events, in order: 119, 82, 61, 68, 32, 41, 48. And 1st prizes declined from $20,000 in the first two events to less than $6,000 in the 7th one.

But Darren is flexible. He has tried 8-Ball 5 times, with quite a bit of rule changing, 9-Ball once, and 10-Ball once. The most recent event was moved out of NYC to Europe. It'll certainly be interesting to see what he does next and whether he can continue the series and possibly make it into something bigger.

 

[realkingcobra]

This is a copy of an email I receive today from Fastenal, to which I already responded to. But, I understand everyone thinks I'm crazy and full of bullshit, but....that's ok



Thank you for the information Glen. The product itself, does Slocum warehouse it? Would the PO’s go to Slocum or who would be the official vendor of the product?


Shawn M. Wibben

Product Manager

Chemicals, Paints, and Exclusive Brands

4730 Service Drive, Winona, MN 55987

 

[realkingcobra]

Like is said, when I get started, it will be with 16 pros, 16 local players, pros pay no entry fees, the 16 locals pay $100 entry fees, all of which gets paid to the 16 remaining players, and all 16 remaining players get paid by my pay scale to begin with, then the only thing left to decide is who the first 16 pros are to begin with.

 

[skip100]

Realkingcobra on the state of pool today - nothing to see here! Please move along.

 

[vasilios]

Like is said, when I get started, it will be with 16 pros, 16 local players, pros pay no entry fees, the 16 locals pay $100 entry fees, all of which gets paid to the 16 remaining players, and all 16 remaining players get paid by my pay scale to begin with, then the only thing left to decide is who the first 16 pros are to begin with.

Glen .

You might want to rethink your entry fee scenarios -
Soft entry will bring nothing but a headache -
remember it will be a dictatorship -



bill

 

[mcjack]

I think pool has more has a lot more viewing experience than say chess or poker. And, we're seeing both of those now, on sports television!

 

[paulcourville]

The first thing I see as what's wrong, is everyone's perception that sponsors throwing money into this sport to support it will make all the problems solve themselves, and everyone will be happy for ever more. That's the FIRST thing I see as wrong, because anyone who believes in that fairy tale is just fooling themselves which is why nothing has ever changed or improved. Yes, there's a few people that have promoted or sponsored a tourna.tournament a year here and there, and some pool tours going on, but you really have to ask yourself, has any of this helped in getting this sport on track to Pro events taking place on a regular basis?

This is just the start of what I'm sure is going to be a very long conversation as my intentions are to make it very clear as to how I see this sport can be straightened out, organized, and be turned into a real profession in which the top Professionals can earn millions of dollars a year, as well as product endorsements outside of our industry.

Right now, I have some Diamond tables to deliver, so I'll come back to this subject later today.

Maybe it should start at the beginning CLEAR STANDARD RULES.

There are Pro rules by region, sponsor and whoever else wants to put their 2 cents in.

BCA Rules, but wait there are BCA rules for tournament and then they have different rules for league play... but then again rules only apply to the average player and not to those "prima donna" players...

APA rules when you want to apply them, when you don't want to apply them then what the heck it's just the APA so who cares...

RULES is where it should begin, otherwise everyone is confused and no one wants to play nor watch.

I've NEVER went Bowling and had to decide who's rules we were gonna play by.. A strike is a strike and a gutter ball STAYS in the gutter, go figure

 

[jeffm]

Big money (to both the owners and professionals) is in the spectator sports where attendees pay significant sums to watch it live... from as far away as 400 feet. That cannot occur with pool and that's part of the problem.

 

[SkipM624]

Baseball is an interesting comparison, which highlights some of the issues when its current success is placed next to pool's relative lack of success. Like pool, baseball's early days did not, could not benefit from the visual medium of television. Baseball games did however get a leg-up on mass dissemination with the arrival of radio. Interest was primarily localized, with area residents rooting for area teams. Out of these teams emerged individual stars who attracted audiences beyond the narrow demographics of a given region. I believe that today's interest in baseball didn't just emerge from a base that enjoyed watching the game and then grew with the general population and expansion of the number of teams. I think the key to its developing success from the early days to now was the way it was marketed; the way that the organizations (teams) kept the media outlets informed. The daily feed of information that kept the fan base informed of every twitch in Babe Ruth's batting stance, how many times he struck out, how many times he homered, and against which pitchers, stoked the fires of interest, which were generally regional in nature. In other words, history, short and long-term, helped fuel growing interest.

Baseball had and continues to enjoy a significant advantage; that of being able to put thousands of fannies into thousands of seats in stadiums that multiplied over the years. In that regard, baseball is a 'big' game, one you can watch in a stadium. Pool, on the other hand, is a 'small' game, primarily (for now) about individual competitors, with consequent less regional appeal. It doesn't mean that one is 'better' than the other for those reasons, but it does speak to the need for a different way to market the sport.

Say what you will about 9-ball or 10-ball, but they do have the advantage of being almost instantly understood - one particular ball at a time, in number order, until the 9- or 10-ball drops signaling victory. Eight-ball isn't rocket science, but it does require, on the part of a potential viewer, a broader awareness, in terms of overall strategy and tactics, of how it works which, I think, lowers its appeal to a broader viewer base.

All this said, I'm clearing away the 'brush' to get at the heart of the matter (improving pool's visibility and profile to elevate its competitors into financial brackets that make it feasible as a professional sport). I contend that someone at the marketing level has to figure out a way to promote the sport better, which should include, although certainly not be limited to, a more robust relationship with the existent media outlets which promote it. Promoters, tour directors and single event/tour sponsors need to get more aggressive about collecting information from a given event and getting that information to media outlets who'll use it to write event reports.

On another level, this means approaching the idea of improvement by analyzing pool's strengths and weaknesses as a televised sport and figuring out how to take advantage of those strengths and minimize the weaknesses, otherwise known as accentuating the positive, eliminating the negative and not messing with Mr. In-Between.

 

[realkingcobra]

Besides not having an organized group of Professional players, pool has no Madison square garden, No grand ole opery, No wimbleton, No Indy 500, No Kentucky Derby, which are ALL live stages in one format or another for which to broadcast live events from to the mass potential viewing audiences around the world. Major pool tournaments if you want to call them that, are pool tables rolled in and set up in casino's or trade show style convention centers...as an additional attraction to what is already taking place and therefore can NOT be set up and prepared for a live viewing audience from around the world, and as I've said many, many times....THAT is the sponsor this sports needs to capture, not Coke, not Pepsi, not Starbucks.....the public. But this sport has no organized professional approach to getting to that level, not without help. As it is, history just keeps repeating itself over and over with every tournament promoted using the same broken system that as anyone can clearly see....no where!

 

[belvederebill1]

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. As individuals, getting a Pro tour going or Pro league doesn't work in the States. Not because pool is boring to watch but because fans want to get behind a team and compete against other cities. They want to be a part of it and they accomplish that with buying clothing (and too many other things to mention here) with their favorite team logos on them.
I'm suggesting to form Pro teams from as many major cities as possible. Set up matches for 9 and 10 ball (because the games are faster than 8 ball) and rotate the teams to different cities just like the basketball and football teams do. Keep stats on the players and make a race to an MVP match up at the end of the season (like NASCAR). Hell the NFL only has 32 teams and they are doing fine! NASCAR has a similar issue with only 1 driver per car and people follow them like gods. A good portion of advertising would be required to get the word out to the masses.
Pool rooms won't work because they don't allow enough fans to come and watch. But I think stadiums that host basketball and hockey should work because of the jumbo screens hanging above the floor. With proper camera work and slow motion replays the fans would be entertained. We could even make some super huge trophy like Hockey and include the teams and dates on it.

Will this work? Don't know
Who will pay for all of this? Good question
Will the billiard industry manufacturers get behind it? Hell yeah they would if it was on regular TV every weekend.

 

[realkingcobra]

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. As individuals, getting a Pro tour going or Pro league doesn't work in the States. Not because pool is boring to watch but because fans want to get behind a team and compete against other cities. They want to be a part of it and they accomplish that with buying clothing (and too many other things to mention here) with their favorite team logos on them.
I'm suggesting to form Pro teams from as many major cities as possible. Set up matches for 9 and 10 ball (because the games are faster than 8 ball) and rotate the teams to different cities just like the basketball and football teams do. Keep stats on the players and make a race to an MVP match up at the end of the season (like NASCAR). Hell the NFL only has 32 teams and they are doing fine! NASCAR has a similar issue with only 1 driver per car and people follow them like gods. A good portion of advertising would be required to get the word out to the masses.
Pool rooms won't work because they don't allow enough fans to come and watch. But I think stadiums that host basketball and hockey should work because of the jumbo screens hanging above the floor. With proper camera work and slow motion replays the fans would be entertained. We could even make some super huge trophy like Hockey and include the teams and dates on it.

Will this work? Don't know
Who will pay for all of this? Good question
Will the billiard industry manufacturers get behind it? Hell yeah they would if it was on regular TV every weekend.

Who's buying all the pool tables? Who's setting all the pool tables up, and taking them out when done? Where are all the pool tables going to be stored at when they're not in use, Who's paying for that?

 

[realkingcobra]

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. As individuals, getting a Pro tour going or Pro league doesn't work in the States. Not because pool is boring to watch but because fans want to get behind a team and compete against other cities. They want to be a part of it and they accomplish that with buying clothing (and too many other things to mention here) with their favorite team logos on them.
I'm suggesting to form Pro teams from as many major cities as possible. Set up matches for 9 and 10 ball (because the games are faster than 8 ball) and rotate the teams to different cities just like the basketball and football teams do. Keep stats on the players and make a race to an MVP match up at the end of the season (like NASCAR). Hell the NFL only has 32 teams and they are doing fine! NASCAR has a similar issue with only 1 driver per car and people follow them like gods. A good portion of advertising would be required to get the word out to the masses.
Pool rooms won't work because they don't allow enough fans to come and watch. But I think stadiums that host basketball and hockey should work because of the jumbo screens hanging above the floor. With proper camera work and slow motion replays the fans would be entertained. We could even make some super huge trophy like Hockey and include the teams and dates on it.

Will this work? Don't know
Who will pay for all of this? Good question
Will the billiard industry manufacturers get behind it? Hell yeah they would if it was on regular TV every weekend.

The billiard industry feeds ON from this industry, not INTO it. There are NO products in the entire billiards industry that can even afford to support a small Pro tour, let alone anything bigger. The billiard industry takes money OUT, it does not put money INTO it in order to support it.

 

[Batesburg Byron]

I completely agree there is an undiagnosed problem with the promotion of pool in the USA. One can see women’s fencing, volleyball, high school football games, and a myriad of other sports on TV but not a world class pool match?

I never hear golf is unsuccessful because pros don’t watch it on TV. Or, bull riders don’t watch their sport. What you do hear about is how much money respected sports generate and it seems pool isn’t one of them. That’s on who and how billiards gets promoted as a sport, not who makes or looses money on a tournament. Unless pool can be made attractive to the masses it’ll continue to be a niche sport for gamblers, hustlers, and pool rooms. That’s not a criticism but rather just an opinion.