What's Your Ruling? BCA 8-ball

Because I see so many combos not called and the player is typically allowed to continue shooting I have a problem with this ruling.

I think there should be a rule that you must call safe if you want to end your inning and make a ball. Otherwise it allows the cheaters to wait to see how their position turns out after shooting a combo or carom then exploiting the current rule to their benefit.

I'm sure your combo was random but then you have a gray area. I understand that you could stop a player from shooting after not calling an obvious combo but since the majority of the time people let guys continue to shoot after an obvious combo isn't called I see an issue.
 
Luxury said:
I think there should be a rule that you must call safe if you want to end your inning and make a ball.
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I thought I made this clear before but I guess not. I had no intention of making a ball. As well, if I planned on making a ball on a safety, I would have definitely called safe.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I'd first like to say that nobody is ever going to call every single shot in a call-shot game. If you ever demanded your opponent to do that, he'd look at you like you had two heads.

As for your questions, I didn't bother calling safe because I wasn't planning on making a ball. I never aimed for it. It wasn't obvious. It wasn't likely. I was clearly playing safe.
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If it was me, and you were shooting into a couple balls that were lined up goofy, I would ask "what are you shooting"?

An obvious shot is different for all skill levels, it's a very grey area. I'm just saying, if you are playing safe and there is a possiblity to make a ball, it's better to call safe. Your opponent may have thought the combo was obvious.
 
tucson9ball said:
If it was me, and you were shooting into a couple balls that were lined up goofy, I would ask "what are you shooting"?

An obvious shot is different for all skill levels, it's a very grey area. I'm just saying, if you are playing safe and there is a possiblity to make a ball, it's better to call safe. Your opponent may have thought the combo was obvious.
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Sure, an opponent is always entitled to an answer in situations such as these. However, if you want your opponent to start calling everything aloud, you're not going to get very far.
 
Non obvious shots

For practical purposes and also from history, combo shots and banks are not to be considered obvious shots, and they should be called, especially if you are going to make a ball and play safe. Was the ball that was made your ball or your opponents?
 
DoubleD said:
Your shot.

Guy is right. You shot and didn't foul. Expecting your opponent to read a safety as being more obvious than a combo is BS.

Underhanded, unsportsmanlike behavior on your part.

dld
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I'm curious as to how it's unsportsmanlike on my part?
 
Snapshot9 said:
For practical purposes and also from history, combo shots and banks are not to be considered obvious shots, and they should be called, especially if you are going to make a ball and play safe. Was the ball that was made your ball or your opponents?
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As stated previously in the thread, I did not intend to make a ball which is why I felt no need to call safe. In reference to your question, it was my ball, obviously. Had it been my opponent's ball, it would be his shot whether I called safe or not.
 
DoubleD said:
Your shot.

Guy is right. You shot and didn't foul. Expecting your opponent to read a safety as being more obvious than a combo is BS.

Underhanded, unsportsmanlike behavior on your part.

dld
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No you have it all wrong. Lets say you are playing a ball into the side pocket with the intent of sending the cue ball into a cluster. You miss the side pocket but you knock one of your balls in with the break out. What you are saying is he should continue shooting since he didn't call safety which is just silly.
 
DoubleD said:
Your shot.

Guy is right. You shot and didn't foul. Expecting your opponent to read a safety as being more obvious than a combo is BS.

Underhanded, unsportsmanlike behavior on your part.

dld
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What on earth are you talking about? A combo is not an obvious shot... even if it's hanging in the hole, by the rules, its not a obvious shot. As far as a safety goes, you don't have to call a safety. A missed shot could be a safety. At the same time, if you make a ball and didn't call it... your inning is over. In this case, Jude made a ball he didn't call (because he didn't intend to make it). So his inning is over. In 9ball, yes, it would still be Jude's shot. But 9ball is a slop game...
 
This happens to me with some frequency the “I didn’t hear you call safe” but you didn’t call it; what happened is exactly what should have happened. You were told to call your shots but you obviously were playing a safe and this guy just doesn’t have enough knowledge about pool or isn’t a straight up player. This will happen to you even when you do call it, even when you call it clearly. But this is exactly what should have happened.
 
DoubleD said:
Your situation is much different than the original post I was referring to in which he claims that it was an 'obvious' attempt to play safe and he 'combo'd' a ball in.

If an opponent did this to me, I am left with believing him after the fact that he meant to hook me even though he made a ball. If he doesn't call the safety, I am making him shoot again.

And to all of you who claim that there are no obvious combos...I suggest you spend a little time at the table, maybe play a bit of straight pool.

The way I play: If you intend to end your turn regardless of what happened, you call safety.

It takes almost not effort to call safety and it shows a tiny bit of respect for your opponent. Certainly arguing about who had to shoot and getting an official ruling took more than looking over at the opponent and saying 'Safe'.

dld
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Okay, so let's say I botched the safety and the combo left me a shot. Do I still shoot again? Does my opponent have the right to examine the situation and decide if I was calling a combo or playing safe?
 
DoubleD said:
Your situation is much different than the original post I was referring to in which he claims that it was an 'obvious' attempt to play safe and he 'combo'd' a ball in.

If an opponent did this to me, I am left with believing him after the fact that he meant to hook me even though he made a ball. If he doesn't call the safety, I am making him shoot again.

And to all of you who claim that there are no obvious combos...I suggest you spend a little time at the table, maybe play a bit of straight pool.

The way I play: If you intend to end your turn regardless of what happened, you call safety.

It takes almost not effort to call safety and it shows a tiny bit of respect for your opponent. Certainly arguing about who had to shoot and getting an official ruling took more than looking over at the opponent and saying 'Safe'.

dld
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In my mind they are basically the same thing. In both cases a ball was made without intention and the ball that dropped wasn't called. If the person shooting chooses not to call his shot he leaves the door open for his opponent to interupt his shot and ask for clarification. I don't believe the person sitting asked before the shot.

Now unsportsmanship would imply that he did intend to make the combo but after realizing the shape was terrible he lied and said it was a safety. Accidently potting a ball *IS NOT* bad sportsmanship no matter how you spin it.
 
DoubleD said:
Not calling the safety and pocketing the ball (please reread his original post, as that is the information I was responding to, not his 'oh, yeah, I didn't intend to make the ball' follow-up) is where my unsportsmanlike came from. I did read it as him intending to make the ball.

dld
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I did read the first post and now have reread it. I guess the part where he said "In an obvious attempt to play safe" could be taken as him trying to make the combo..... ;)
 
DoubleD said:
No, because you didn't call the safety or the shot. When you play something that is ambiguous without calling it, I fully believe that your opponent is in his right to argue it any way which gives him the advantage.

dld
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As an opponent, you're right. You have the right to argue both sides of the coin. As a ref, there needs to be a degree of consistency. Either it's a safety or it's not and the resulting layout shouldn't matter. The hierarchy of calling shots is simple. Any combination, carom or bank needs to be called. Any time a safety is played and a ball is pocketed, it needs to be called. What is interesting is when the two are in conflict with eachother which is why I chose to post it here.

My intention was never to be underhanded nor unsportsmanlike. I was playing safe, committed no foul and wanted that safe to stand. That's why I called a ref over. My opponent and I both explained to the ref what had happened and both of us were satisfied with the explanation that was provided. We left no details out. The ref ruled that it was a safe since a combo would have to be called but insist that I call safe in the future.

I don't plan on letting this happen again and for the record, this is not out of respect for my opponent but for my own protection.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
As an opponent, you're right. You have the right to argue both sides of the coin. As a ref, there needs to be a degree of consistency. Either it's a safety or it's not and the resulting layout shouldn't matter. The hierarchy of calling shots is simple. Any combination, carom or bank needs to be called. Any time a safety is played and a ball is pocketed, it needs to be called. What is interesting is when the two are in conflict with eachother which is why I chose to post it here.

My intention was never to be underhanded nor unsportsmanlike. I was playing safe, committed no foul and wanted that safe to stand. That's why I called a ref over. My opponent and I both explained to the ref what had happened and both of us were satisfied with the explanation that was provided. We left no details out. The ref ruled that it was a safe since a combo would have to be called but insist that I call safe in the future.

I don't plan on letting this happen again and for the record, this is not out of respect for my opponent but for my own protection.
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As I stated earlier, by the rules it's your opponents shot.

But, because this is not my first rodeo, I let them know I'm playing "safe".
 
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watchez said:
It should be real simple -- win the game on the table, not off of it.
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Watchez, I appreciate the sentiment but at the same time, it's a funny situation. The primary reason why I posted it was to spark debate. This is a great exercise in learning how the rules work AND learning how to protect yourself as a player. In the end, the ruling went in my favor but as DoubleD pointed out, I still should have called safe. It's the only way to be sure.
 
My first match I was playing a guy who was a first year player out in Vega$. Second game, he has his last ball on the table and the 8. He banks his ball cross side. He didn't call it. He knew he was banking it cross side. I knew he was banking it cross side. I didn't call a ref over and ask for a foul. I did tell him after the game that unless the shot is straight in, he should make sure he calls it cause another opponent might call it on him.
 
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