When is a table too fast?

Slasher

Slasher

KE = 0.5 • m • v2
Silver Member
Just watching this match got me to thinking how a really slick table changes the game. Really hard to hold the ball and on some shots even Earl was struggling not to overrun the ball.
It changes the way you stroke and the way you play position and is not conducive to punching the ball at all.
Is it too fast?

 
I’ve never played on a cloth that was too fast.
Most money I’ve ever won in one session was snooker on a 5x10 with carom cloth.
It’s a slow cloth that bothers me....no matter how good you are, you’re forced to make many pedestrian decisions.
 
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Fresh or New Cloth tend to be faster then old worn out crap.

This thread is typical, as people like to complain about something, smoke too cold, to hot, equipment, price of bottler water.🤪

Funny thing is the cloth thing effect both Players the same, improvise, adapt, and overcome little bump in your road.
 
Slasher said:
Just watching this match got me to thinking how a really slick table changes the game. Really hard to hold the ball and on some shots even Earl was struggling not to overrun the ball.
It changes the way you stroke and the way you play position and is not conducive to punching the ball at all.
Is it too fast?

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A Diamond barbox with super bouncy cushions and cloth significantly faster than Simonis 860 would qualify in my opinion as being too fast.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Fresh or New Cloth tend to be faster then old worn out crap.

This thread is typical, as people like to complain about something, smoke too cold, to hot, equipment, price of bottler water.🤪

Funny thing is the cloth thing effect both Players the same, improvise, adapt, and overcome little bump in your road.
Click to expand...
Wow, conflation and projection all on one post, congrats you win a participation trophy 🏆
 
That cloth is way too fast (it is also a bit faster than your average 860 out there). It is too fast partly because it removes the need to have to put a stroke on the ball very much, but even more so because it takes way too many of the positional options away which takes away some of the advantage that a more knowledgeable and creative player has.
 
Poolplaya9 said:
That cloth is way too fast (it is also a bit faster than your average 860 out there). It is too fast partly because it removes the need to have to put a stroke on the ball very much, but even more so because it takes way too many of the positional options away which takes away some of the advantage that a more knowledgeable and creative player has.
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I look at it the opposite as you, to me slower cloth (table in general) takes away more options and is an equalizer. A person with a power stroke can still excel with power draw and follow vs. a guy with mediocre power. On a slow table the better player may not have that tool available to pull himself out of a jam when he gets too straight on position.
 
Lawnboy77 said:
I look at it the opposite as you, to me slower cloth (table in general) takes away more options and is an equalizer. A person with a power stroke can still excel with power draw and follow vs. a guy with mediocre power. On a slow table the better player may not have that tool available to pull himself out of a jam when he gets too straight on position.
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Some significant portion of the positional options get taken away when you get a very fast table like this, but relatively few additional realistic positional options become available because of the additional speed and the trade off isn't even close. I don't understand what you mean by the last sentence but for sure a slow table requires you to stroke more shots which of course favors the person with the better stroke. I also believe that if a great position player is playing a great shot maker that the great position player's odds will increase a bit on a slower table.
 
Earl and many old school players cut their teeth on slow felt. I've been playing 38 years and, although I primarily play on faster cloth now, I feel I can string racks easier on tables that have slower cloth. For me it's easier to get position on slower cloth for two reasons:
1) I can "let my stroke out" more--- meaning I confidently utilize a wider level of stroke speeds without worrying about over-rolling the cue ball.
2) Slow cloth is easier to get english on.
(A hidden third reason might also be because most slow-cloth tables are older and have more generous pockets lol)
Anyways, I dislike overly fast cloth.
 
On some of the 8 footers at Boogies in Houston back in the day, the cue ball would actually pick up speed after contacting the end rail. (Cue ball would actually hop a little) I know this had to do more so with the cushions, but to me those tables were way too fast.
 
Charlie Hustle said:
On some of the 8 footers at Boogies in Houston back in the day, the cue ball would actually pick up speed after contacting the end rail. (Cue ball would actually hop a little) I know this had to do more so with the cushions, but to me those tables were way too fast.
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Funny how just a little drop in cushion height will turn almost anything into premium super fast rubber. There's a video of Rodney Morris playing on a table in Hawaii that plays so fast it's like it has no cloth. Serious.
 
Lawnboy77 said:
I look at it the opposite as you, to me slower cloth (table in general) takes away more options and is an equalizer. A person with a power stroke can still excel with power draw and follow vs. a guy with mediocre power. On a slow table the better player may not have that tool available to pull himself out of a jam when he gets too straight on position.
Click to expand...
I agree. There are a lot of shots I can play on slick cloth that less experienced players wouldn’t even consider. The only shot a slick cloth takes away from me is being able to check the cueball off the rail.

EDIT: Even then, I’m really thinking of new cloth when I say slick. Fast cloth that has lost its shine can still take check.

DOUBLE EDIT: There’s actually a whole range of cloth conditions that equal fast, and all of them allow different shots to be played or not played. Fast but thin due to wear = no reaction from the cueball. Fast and new = plenty of reaction. Fast and a few weeks old = reaction and control. etc, etc, etc.
 
Too fast to me is playing rotation on 760. That stuff is fine for 14.1/1p or maybe in really sticky conditions. Place i play is currently using ANDY900 and it plays great. About the same speed as HR(maybe a tad faster). Good for all games imo.
 
Depends on how level the slates are (and how clean the cloth). If you have to slow-roll a long shot to hold position, drift & chalk debris could be a problem. Then, positional approach usually must change (multiple rails), especially with carom cloth.
BTW: I‘d like to see how well the younger pros would do playing 14.1 on a Diamond table with tight pockets, if it had the old-style slow (carded?) cloth of yesteryear, and under the less-than-perfect maintenance/setup conditions often typical then (more ‘stroke’, less ’finesse‘).
 
Can a cloth make a table too fast? When I play on a table that I think is too fast, I always feel the rails are the reason. They'll bounce just too much.
 
I played and won a tournament in Algonquin Ill at Main St Billiards years ago. Nine foot Brunswick tables with super speed rails. They played like big pin ball machines! The first three matches were an adventure while I over ran shot after shot. I eventually got the feel of it and went undefeated till the finals. A young kid won the first set and I took the second and won. It was a wild ride and I never did figure out why they were so damned fast nor did I let it bother me. Just keep potting and winning!
 
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