Where does SVB rank all time?

[CasCraven]

I love GOAT discussions I just read the full 9 pages of comments

I think it is hard (or impossible?) to compare players from the 70s-80s with players of today for a lot of reasons:
-Different equipment
-Different rules
-Different field (filipinos arrived in the 80s, european in the 90s, chinese/taiwan later on..)
-Different tournaments (the major tournaments of yesterday arent all the same as today's)
--> So looking at 'titles only' is difficult. It's definitely not apple to apple.

And then if you base your judgement on 'what you witnessed', your own age can make you bias.
Younger pool fans are likely to have a bias towards SVB, Alex, etc...
Older fans are likely to vote for Efren, Earl, etc...
And even older fans will shout Sigel, Varner, Hall, etc...
And even if you try to not be bias, your memory will make you unconsciously bias as you will only remember the amazing achievements of those players you used to watch and you'll discard their failures, or the context, etc ... its pretty natural. And younger fans just have no idea how good Hall, Sigel, Varner were ...

I think the only 'fair' way to do it is to have a GREATEST per decade.
So who would you vote for?
70s: Hall?
80s: Efren?
90s: Earl?
00s: Pagulayan?
10s: SVB!!
I think we can all agree SVB is the greatest when it comes to the past decade. I even made a video on that topic last year.


Personally I only discovered pool about 8 years ago so I admit I can't talk much about what happened before even tho I've watched tens of thousands of hours of youtube videos, and read countless of stories ... Being fairly young, I probably have a bias towards SVB and it's no surprise he is my favorite player.
Efren is my 2nd fav because from all the videos I've watched, he is the one that I've enjoyed watching the most. I've never seen any other player get out of 'problem situations' the way he does ... but I still prefer SVB because I feel he plays so perfect he never gets in those 'problem situations' and never has to pull a great escape kind of shot.
Earl and Alex would finish my top 4.

Unfortunately I'm too young, and there isn't enough videos for me to really get to know the games of Sigel, Varner, Hall, etc... I've watched hours of them on YouTube, but nowhere near as much as the more recent players.
So I know I am bias whether I want it or not ...

Nice report coming from The generation Z crowd?? But you only saw one great American, and that is SVB. When pool was really popular in the 80s and 90s. I'm talking packed pool halls everywhere. Where I'm from Long Island, NY....there was a pool hall in nearly every town. They were packed every single night. It really was a great time for pool. Now? We only have 1 in one the most densely populated areas in the country. Sad how the game has declined.
There were so many all time greats in the 80s and 90s. It's really difficult making a list. When the pro's had their short lived tour, the PBA tour, you had so many all time greats in their prime. Early 90s, at one of these tour stops you witnessed Americans Sigel, Hall, Archer, Mizerak, Varner, Strickland. AND....Reyes, Parica, Bustamante, Ortmann, Souquet. And local NYC legend Ginky. I may have left off a name or 2. Incredible fields. This was also when Accu-stats was born and I would order matches for the VCR. Thats enough for now.....

 

[CasCraven]

Thanks for the clarification. Agreed that Shane does not, and has never, dominated pool the way Michael Jordan dominated basketball.

Reacting to your previous post, if you don't think Derby City 9-ball titles are incredibly tough to win, rest assured that you are mistaken. Field size is typically 400-500 and you need to win about thirteen matches to snap off the title. That's why the list of Derby City 9-ball Champions consists primarily of current and future hall of famers. The field always consists of the stars of America, Asia (Efren, Orcullo, Biado, Corteza, Butamante, Pagulayan and Parica have each probably played in at least ten of them), and Europe (Ralf, Niels, Darren, and Shaw probably played in ten of them or more each). Outside of the majors of the last twenty years or so (World 9-ball, China Open 9-ball, All Japan 9-ball, US Open 9-ball), the Derby City Classic 9-ball event may just be the hardest nine ball event to win in the world. Shane's five Derby City 9-ball titles is a record that may last forever. Incidentally, the typical field at the Derby City 9-ball is tougher than the field found at the 2021 World Pool Championship, which in so many ways felt like a large field Eurotour event with a sprinkling of American and Asian players . It's just that hard to win at Derby City! Shane's five US Open 9-ball titles is also going to be very hard to match.

Sorry, but Shane has been a stone cold killer in tournament play for well over ten years now, and the US Open is as hard to win as any event other than the WPA World 9-ball. Yes, Shane has no World 9-ball Championship, but he has two silvers. Yes, Shane has no All-Japan title, but he has won a bronze. Yes, Shane has no China Open title but he has won a bronze. At home and away, he's proven his mettle over and over and over, and Albin's tournament resume pales by comparison.

I think Shane's resume is even stronger in tournament play that it is in action matches.

All great points. With a couple World titles and SVB-like performances in the Mosconi Cup and we are talking about the greatest 9ball player ever, no question. That overseas mental block is real. He knows it. It's easily visible, the struggles, even to the untrained billiards eye.
SVB is still in his prime and knocking off some major overseas events is the icing and still definitely possible. I'd love to see it.

 

[sjm]

All great points. With a couple World titles and SVB-like performances in the Mosconi Cup and we are talking about the greatest 9ball player ever, no question. That overseas mental block is real. He knows it. It's easily visible, the struggles, even to the untrained billiards eye.
SVB is still in his prime and knocking off some major overseas events is the icing and still definitely possible. I'd love to see it.

Well said. I agree. There's still time for Shane to bag the biggest overseas titles. I'd love to see it!

 

[measureman]

Nice report coming from The generation Z crowd?? But you only saw one great American, and that is SVB. When pool was really popular in the 80s and 90s. I'm talking packed pool halls everywhere. Where I'm from Long Island, NY....there was a pool hall in nearly every town. They were packed every single night. It really was a great time for pool. Now? We only have 1 in one the most densely populated areas in the country. Sad how the game has declined.
There were so many all time greats in the 80s and 90s. It's really difficult making a list. When the pro's had their short lived tour, the PBA tour, you had so many all time greats in their prime. Early 90s, at one of these tour stops you witnessed Americans Sigel, Hall, Archer, Mizerak, Varner, Strickland. AND....Reyes, Parica, Bustamante, Ortmann, Souquet. And local NYC legend Ginky. I may have left off a name or 2. Incredible fields. This was also when Accu-stats was born and I would order matches for the VCR. Thats enough for now.....

And Ervilino,Hopkins,Jimmy and Petey Fusco,Neptune Joe Frady.

 

[CasCraven]

And Ervilino,Hopkins,Jimmy and Petey Fusco,Neptune Joe Frady.

Yes, I remember them. I only listed all timers still in their prime. Hopkins was in prime. Maybe Mizerak wasn't, but most... Murderers row!

 

[Positively Ralf]

Among American players he is without equal imo in the last 10-15 years and noone else shows signs of bothering to want to top him, unless there is some super phenom I have not heard about.

If Dechaine would've never been blackballed because of his attitude, I think we would be talking about him being the best overall American player right now.

Corey Deuel would be his equal but Corey is one of the most overrated players there has ever been as he was always more interested in being the smartest guy in the room than actually wanting to be the best player.

 

[westcoast]

Among American players he is without equal imo in the last 10-15 years and noone else shows signs of bothering to want to top him, unless there is some super phenom I have not heard about.

If Dechaine would've never been blackballed because of his attitude, I think we would be talking about him being the best overall American player right now.

Corey Deuel would be his equal but Corey is one of the most overrated players there has ever been as he was always more interested in being the smartest guy in the room than actually wanting to be the best player.

We will always have to wonder how great Landon Shuffett would have been if he had decided to focus on pool. Seemed like all the potential was there, but he decided to pursue a different career path

 

[PoolBum]

Have you ever seen me play?

Yes, you are the world's okayist pool player.

 

[u12armresl]

Among American players he is without equal imo in the last 10-15 years and noone else shows signs of bothering to want to top him, unless there is some super phenom I have not heard about.

If Dechaine would've never been blackballed because of his attitude, I think we would be talking about him being the best overall American player right now.

Corey Deuel would be his equal but Corey is one of the most overrated players there has ever been as he was always more interested in being the smartest guy in the room than actually wanting to be the best player.

Funny thing about attitude is, you can change it. You can right the wrongs and become a better person.

 

[Shannon.spronk]

So after reading most of this thread I will say this, as far as American players go SVB is one of the best. After reading many responses I did not find a consensus on an American GOAT. I also didnt totally find a consensus on a GOAT of all time. What I can tell you is that the player that I consider the GOAT is the player that they compare everyone else to. For many of the players that I know it would be Efren. For the players that I know the American GOAT would be Earl. I personally feel that as long as we are using those players as the basis for comparison then they should be considered the GOATs to the players that I know. That is just how the players that I know rank them.

I feel that same way about other sports. Jordan is the GOAT. If 20 years down the road all comparisons are being made to LBJ instead of Jordan then I would consider the court of public opinion had made LBJ the GOAT.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

Earl is a goat candidate, as is S van B.
Hall of fame or whatever can be measured in titles but goatness is much more than that. You have to take into account how someone makes you feel when you watch them play, how they look doing it.
A goat can’t over analyze or play robotically or god forbid with an upright stance.

Worldwide Efren is definitely in the running, and bustemante - he looks like he’s made up of Pool and Chill Pills when he’s out there. Alex the LP a serious contender.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Nine pages of comments, no one is right, no one is wrong.

Just not worth my time, SBV is a Pro Player.

Not real important.

 

[Positively Ralf]

Funny thing about attitude is, you can change it. You can right the wrongs and become a better person.

I get what you are saying, but I can deal with an attitude like Dechaine's mainly because I've dealt with it in the competitive esports world for years now. Obviously people are built different.

 

[CasCraven]

Hmm I think Earl Strickland would disagree quite vocally with that assumption winning 3 world 9b championships titles in the past. Maybe even Johnny Archer and Fong Pang Chao with two titles in the 90s,the same objection could come from Thorsten Hohman and Albin Ouschan (who won two world 9b titles even in this decade). And why is it that Shane doesnt rush to play Joshua Filler big money long 9b set even though it has been offered to him several times? While the talk about Shane being the overall GOAT may have some merit because of his versatility saying he is 9b goat "no question" is simply ignoring the facts/utter BS because there are LOTS of questions to answer..

You read that correct....no question. If he adds a couple world championships, then the debate is over. He has dominated on American soil, with 17 US Open titles. That's right, 17! He excels at every game. Add in 11 more US Open bar table titles. 12 Derby City titles. 6 time POY and player of the decade. Add 2 Major stops in the states, Turning Stone and Super B Expo, and you have 12 more titles. He's a machine. He's doing all of this in, by far, the most difficult time to win.... since pool internationally is so strong the past 2 decades. In the 70s, 80s, and 90s.... pool was primarily a US sport. Have a great day!

 

[pt109]

I think this is an interesting subject...but once again I have trouble joining in.
I do not like the term ‘greatest of all TIME’....who has the right to opine on eternity.
..now some are going to say I’m nitpicking and it’s only words....well, you’ll have to give me the same consideration and let me rant.

 

[sjm]

17 US Open 9ball titles? I dont think so. I just "love" how people here enjoy bullshitting themselves and others with not answering the question asked and trying to answer different question. SVB is NOT 9ball GOAT simple as that Have a nice day

My suspicion here is that the poster is including the several CSI US Opens in disciplines other than 9-ball that Shane has won. Many of these are very small field events having less than elite fields and their inclusion in the case for Shane is ridiculous. The only US Open title that offers a large, internationally diverse, field is the US Open 9-ball, and in our sport, it's tied with the China Open for being the second hardest tile to win.

 

[Dimeball]

Silliness... talking about a guy who's 38 years old, too bad this thread won't be around 10 years from now so most of you can have that "what the hell was I thinking" moment... Everyone is trying to be some kind of zen sports writer here....

My suspicion here is that the poster is including the several CSI US Opens in disciplines other than 9-ball that Shane has won. Many of these are very small field events having less than elite fields and their inclusion in the case for Shane is ridiculous. The only US Open title that offers a large, internationally diverse, field is the US Open 9-ball, and in our sport, it's tied with the China Open for being the second hardest tile to win.

 

[CasCraven]

17 US Open 9ball titles? I dont think so. I just "love" how people here enjoy bullshitting themselves and others with not answering the question asked and trying to answer different question. SVB is NOT 9ball GOAT simple as that Have a nice day

You clearly have trouble reading.

 

[CasCraven]

Silliness... talking about a guy who's 38 years old, too bad this thread won't be around 10 years from now so most of you can have that "what the hell was I thinking" moment... Everyone is trying to be some kind of zen sports writer here....

Pool is very much like other Sports. As you age, your skill suffers. Mike Sigel retired at 41. Earl's last Major win was 2002. He was 41. SVB is an enigma, who's obsession and practice routine is unprecedented. He's currently #1 player in the World, with the highest Fargo in the World. I see his prime going mid 40s. We will see!

 

[VVP]

Enough said!