Where Have All The Kamui Chalk Warrior's Gone?
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
MartinBullet
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Granted this may just be personal opinion, but I've tried pretty much every chalk out there (Master, Blue Diamond, Triangle, Predator) and for myself nothing comes close to Kamui. I play for at least 3 hours every day and I've been using the same block of 1.21 for over 5 months now, it just seems to never wear out.
Couple the chalk with a Kamui tip and I can now put far much more spin on the cueball. Like I said this is just from personal experience, everyone's game is different.
I'll also add that I was using Kamui chalk and tips BEFORE they sponsored me, so I have paid for the products too, and even with the price of them I wouldn't change.
Couple the chalk with a Kamui tip and I can now put far much more spin on the cueball. Like I said this is just from personal experience, everyone's game is different.
I'll also add that I was using Kamui chalk and tips BEFORE they sponsored me, so I have paid for the products too, and even with the price of them I wouldn't change.
Yeah, but what if you pop the ferrari's hood and it's a just a celica engine? :B
I got nothing against people wanting Nice Things™, but if everyone's honest with themselves they'll find 99% of their miscues are player error. The rest can be prevented by just chalking before every shot, using any brand.
I was talking with Corey Duel before his match with Putnam at the derby and we were talking about tips and chalk. As most know, he shoots with an elkmaster tip and uses master chalk. Seems to work well for him. I do remember him saying "Who pays $30 for a piece of chalk?" As has probably been stated before, people use what they feel works for them. You aren't a better pool player because you use a certain brand of chalk.
Office 7-23-29, Asahigaoka, Asakita, Hiroshima, Japan 731-3361
Just a guess, but perhaps the stuff's still radioactive, and the required decontamination process is what is driving their manufacturing costs upward.
I might covertly purchase a cube if it kept my table cleaner. Opinions on the latter???
Just a guess, but perhaps the stuff's still radioactive, and the required decontamination process is what is driving their manufacturing costs upward.
I might covertly purchase a cube if it kept my table cleaner. Opinions on the latter???
I'd like to see a double-blind test between Kamui and Silver Cup, where pros used two unknown piece of chalk for three or four hours, chalking between every shot, swapping chalk every 30 minutes of play and then pausing for five minutes to submit a report on miscues, feel, etc.
They could even be invited back to repeat the experiment, this time chalking every three shots, and then again on another day chalking every five, etc.
Not saying that I think Kamui is all hype. ...Just saying that I'd be a lot happier about spending that much more money on a piece of chalk if there was some credible scientific evidence (rather than scientific theory) behind the price-tag.
They could even be invited back to repeat the experiment, this time chalking every three shots, and then again on another day chalking every five, etc.
Not saying that I think Kamui is all hype. ...Just saying that I'd be a lot happier about spending that much more money on a piece of chalk if there was some credible scientific evidence (rather than scientific theory) behind the price-tag.
A year ago...it was the hottest topic on AZB?
Have you "wised-up" and stopped paying 30 bucks a chunk for the label on the chalk?
I am sure Kamui will be happy to send you a piece for your generous gift of free publicity.
Putting up a post like this guarantees many pages of discussion along with more testimonials from happy customers.
What you described isn't really scientific. It would be personal opinion, but I guess you could apply the scientific method to the study.
It wouldn't be that hard to look at the amount of friction each type of chalk induces, as well as possibly a mechanical arm to hit a shot over and over the exact same way each time. Take note of how many strokes each chalk takes until a miscue. Take measurements and see which chalk allows cueing further from the center than the other. Etc etc.
I fundamentally disagree with this on a couple levels.
On the personal level I know Mr. Hiraoka from Kamui and I believe with every fiber in my being that he honestly has tried to come up with better chalk. I have had a few discussions with him about quality and process and I feel that he is a kindred spirit when it comes to questing after the best product that can be built. This is why I have consistently railed against any insinuation that Kamui is playing us all for suckers and selling snake-oil.
Then again I also believed Lance Armstrong didn't dope. But I never had a conversation with Lance either.
On the business level, yes it's true that price affects perception but there is a barrier where it gets ridiculous and people simply don't buy into it. And I believe that $25 chalk which was the original price fits this category. You can't simply repackage ordinary chalk and charge $25 and expect to have long term success with that gimmick. Kamui as a brand intends to be around for a long long time. My gut feeling is Mr. Hiraoka would not bet the reputation of his company on this ploy.
That said I do believe that some of the marketing has been over-the-top and elitist, i.e. you have to play good enough to understand this chalk...type of tone. I find that to be offensive and am not sure that it was from Mr. Hiraoka. This chalk reduces defection is another claim? OK, proof?
So ultimately I disagree that it's a marketing gimmick. Those are intended for short term turn-and-burn gain, not long term presence. I do think that it's a really risky thing to put out such a product at such a premium price because it opens the door for many competitors to come in at much lower prices and simply make the same claims. For example I could envision some company repackaging some generic chalk and making all the same claims as Kamui with the idea of moving just one container load before everyone figures out that it's nowhere close. And of course there is the fact that anyone can reverse engineer it and come in at a lower price.
Tweeten Deluxe anyone? $2 a cube.
Lets reverse test the theory. Sell me a case for 5 dollars and lets see what happens!:grin:
Made a couple videos on this subject:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSKV5CK_fziWCED75noocpdRCtWBI5mJh
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSKV5CK_fziWCED75noocpdRCtWBI5mJh
This is why I don't sell $4000 cases. I sell cases that no one can say are too expensive for the performance they get.I have to admit I was SHOCKED to see the chalk priced at $25. I mean I knew about it a year before it came out but I would never have expected it to cost $25 a cube.
That's pretty ballsy to do that, whether it's worth it or not. I will give that much to Creedo, Kamui has balls.
I have to admit I was SHOCKED to see the chalk priced at $25. I mean I knew about it a year before it came out but I would never have expected it to cost $25 a cube.
That's pretty ballsy to do that, whether it's worth it or not. I will give that much to Creedo, Kamui has balls.
Agreed. I would think at 25$ people wouldn't even want to try it. Honestly, I'd try it, if it weren't 25$....along with the fact I'd likely forget it somewhere or someone would pick it up.
Perhaps Mr. Hiraoka can shed some light on the price? Can you email him for some sort of justification, and perhaps include a link to this thread? Many prospective buyers need some sort of explanation,,,
If you just asked one player then yes it would be nothing more than personal opinion, but if you asked a large number of players, and asked them a large number of times on different occasions, then it would be impossible to dismiss it as coincidence if one chalk got a statistically significant number of favourable reviews compared to the other, while throughout the experiment the entire set of players were deprived of any personal knowledge about which chalk they were using, as would be the case in a double-blind test such as I proposed. You don't need to use robots to make it scientifically credible.
You would have to test an incredibly large number of people to rule out a statistical or mathematical variance.
Also, a survey would provide way too many variables. There aren't enough players that play at a consistent enough level to make a group large enough to take an accurate survey. Just the fact that most average players don't stroke straight enough to rule out their miscues due to chalk and not personal error. Most people are very swingy with the consistency of their stoke, one day they are stroking fine and the next day they're not.
Not to mention the million other things.
Its a scientific fact why chalk works, so if the kamui chalk has better "ingredients" than regular chalk, as they claim, it will work better anyway.
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Um, this has been discussed many times already. The justification is the expense of research and production. Whether that is true or not I don't know.
What I do know is that no one asks Black Boar to justify the price of a $20,000 pool cue. No one asks casemakers to justify the price of a $4000 pool cue case. (well I have but that's another story, I don't think prospective buyers do it.)
What would you expect to hear? If he told you that research was expensive and that he had sunk $100,000 into figuring out how to make this chalk and that producing a single piece was $14 would that be what you needed to hear to spend $30 on the chalk? At the end of the day it's a product that is out there and has been used and reviewed by a lot of people. So really who cares, or should care WHY the price is what it is. Either you buy or you don't and if you buy it either you feel like a sucker or you don't. Most people report that they are very happy with it and that it works better.
Some of these people are my customers also so I know that they can tell what a quality product is.
Pangit
Banned
Counterfeit Kamui
I've often wondered why some enterprising "Hustler" hasn't invested in quality printer....make quality counterfeit Kamui labels:thumbup:
Buy mere mortal chalk...like something from Tweeten...peel off the label....glue on counterfeit Kamui lable....instant profit. :smile::smile::smile:
Maybe it's already been done?
I've often wondered why some enterprising "Hustler" hasn't invested in quality printer....make quality counterfeit Kamui labels:thumbup:
Buy mere mortal chalk...like something from Tweeten...peel off the label....glue on counterfeit Kamui lable....instant profit. :smile::smile::smile:
Maybe it's already been done?
STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guys look at his name, it even has troll in it lol.
Guys look at his name, it even has troll in it lol.