Where is Johnny Archer in history?

[eyesjr]

Earl Strickland has 6 World 9 Ball Championships, Archer has 4.
Strickland has 5 U.S. Open Championships, Archer has 1.

Well, we know that. But what many of us may not know is Earl dedicated his life to tournament play, and exhibitions, while Johnny stuck to action. Never broke away from it. Earl has More dedicated years to tournaments, and therefore, more wins. Wimpy, however, that is another story - That is why I rank Efren and wimpy so close, though they had tourney wins during and past prime, they raked in the dough after hours and STILL WON their tourneys...

 

[Celtic]

Well, we know that. But what many of us may not know is Earl dedicated his life to tournament play, and exhibitions, while Johnny stuck to action. Never broke away from it. Earl has More dedicated years to tournaments, and therefore, more wins.

Not quite.

Johnny Archer has been as commited a tournament player as any pro alive since his late teens. You cannot find many major tournaments since 1991 that Johnny Archer has "not" competed in. He has been a staple tournament player in the world championships, the US Opens, many of the Reno/Sands opens, and any other tournament that had enough prestige/money to get him to compete for almost 2 decades.

 

[frankncali]

I have JA placed really high on an All Time Nine ball list.

One trouble we all should have is that we have very little basis to judge. There is no true Pro Tour and honestly might not have ever been a good one.

I think we would really see how guys stack up if we had a solid legit tour for about 5 years. I believe JA would be in the Top 5 if that happened.

It has to be tough for a guy to keep his head in the game even if he is a great player. Very little opportunities exist.

Guys like JA would play good at any game if they had a reason to play it. As someone mentioned he has ran a couple 150s on Accustats.

I started out watching Johnny play all games from when he was a kid on up. He was fiercely intense back then and into the 90s. Life and realization slowed the train.

I still don't see too many running to get in line to play him.

I would love to see JA play 14.1 against Schmidt. Give him a month or two to play some and I think he has a great chance. Maybe someone could put that one together even if its for an exhibition. I would pay to see it.

 

[cueman]

Top twenty and maybe even top ten. What has hurt Johnny in his overall legacy is that he doesn't play One Pocket, only a little Banks and even less Straight Pool. At 9-Ball or Ten Ball, he has been one of the absolute best players for nearly twenty years now.

You are right. I think if he had played all games alot we might have to refigure who was the best all around player. He was never a straight pool player, but went and practiced with a good straight pool player for several days before a straight pool event. He wins the straight pool and the ten ball event and runs over 200. He ran the set out and kept running balls until he was well over 200.

 

[Bobby]

Eric,
I agree with you that today (2009), Johnny is more consistent that Earl. But Earl was consistent for an awefully long time. From 1984 to 2002, Earl won those 11 World 9 Ball & U.S. Open Championships, plus scores of other tournaments such as the 1997 World Pool Master's, several Sands-Regency's, several McDermott Masters, etc, etc. In 1999, he won a World 8 Ball Championship! So Earl had a good 18 year streak where he won major championships. That's consistency!

Johnny won his first World 9 Ball Championship in 1992, his last in 1997. His U.S. Open win was in 1999. And even though he hasn't won any more World or U.S. Open titles, he did win the Super Billiard Expo Pro Players Championship back to back in 2003 & 2004. Johnny also won the 2006 Challenge of Champions, which, although it's a small invitational, it's still a great win. He also has 6 Sands-Regency Championships from June 1991 to Dec 1996. So lets say that from 1991 till now, 2009, Archer is still a serious threat to win anything he enters. But that's an 18 year period as well....

If anything, I think Johnny was stronger in the 1990's than he is today.
Earl was strong in the 1980's and 1990's. BOTH are great champions.
And, like you, I feel that Johnny Archer is well deserving to be a first ballot H.O.F.er. If I could vote for him, I would.

But in our praise and appreciation of Johnny Archer, let's not forget the venerable Earl Strickland.

Yeah, you're the first person who I've ever heard bring up the fact that Archer won the Sands 6 times! I always thought that was such an impressive feat to be overlooked by most people.

 

[mullyman]

Johnny is a great player. I don't think anyone can take that away from him. But he's about as much fun to watch as it is to sit around watching paint flake off the walls. He's also got that terrible habit of picking lint that no one else can see. I'll give him all the credit he deserves for his great play, but I sure don't enjoy watching him.
MULLY

 

[eyesjr]

I think you missed my point. Through the nineties, I saw them both in many many tournaments, and after hours, before hours, and during hours, I saw archer in action several times. I have never seen Earl playing outside a tournament, since the late eighties.

Therein lays the answer to why archer has less wins.

Not quite.

Johnny Archer has been as commited a tournament player as any pro alive since his late teens. You cannot find many major tournaments since 1991 that Johnny Archer has "not" competed in. He has been a staple tournament player in the world championships, the US Opens, many of the Reno/Sands opens, and any other tournament that had enough prestige/money to get him to compete for almost 2 decades.

 

[Mowem down]

Pool is flat out the wrong game to try and say any 1 person is the best ever.

Its not a pro tour of turneys you need to say who is the best (blind draw turneys are not all equil) its a pro season, were everybody plays every body the same amount of times, the same race, in the same conditions (as close as you can get anyway)

Im sorry, but "Efren is 2nd tier" that is crazy talk. When Whimpy was playing there wasnt even anybody around that played like Efren those guys all played with a 5 inch bridge choked up to the top of the wrap darn near. Efren and Strikland played countless times neither one just dominated the other. Those guys are all so good the smallest roll here or here can change the out come of the match...

Its a shame its to late to have them all play a big old round robin 5 sets to 15 twice a year for 5 years then we would really know.

The fact is Johnny should be a first ballot H.O.F'er, all the rest is simply opinion

 

[Marvel]

I think that is a spot on assesment. I may give the longevity edge to Johnny. He seems to be playing at the highest level consistently the longest.

Gotta disagree. I was just coming to that anyway and Celtic already wrote about it, but Johnny is still "young" and yet his last Major wins are from 10yrs ago or more.

Excluding UPA Tour wins, he really hasn't won anything much for many many years and he's same age like Ralf Souquet for example (about 40). Efren won his biggest tournaments in his 40's and 50's.
Johnny hasn't even had high finishes in the (Real) Majors for many years. When was he in the top three in US.Open last time? At WPC he hasn't been in semi-finals since Matchroom started 1999. At the IPT he was mediocre (ok that was 8-ball).

Definitely he's a great player and HOF candidate, but I wouldn't see him "the greatest" in any era or cathegory. Maybe "Greatest in his twenties", as he really was something special then.

 

[Cornerman]

He was the player of the 90's, winning everything in sight. When he was at his best, he seemed almost unbeatable, but I don't always here him listed at the top of the 9 ball list. Where do you think he should be?

6th.

Fred

 

[Fatboy]

Eric,

If anything, I think Johnny was stronger in the 1990's than he is today.
Earl was strong in the 1980's and 1990's. BOTH are great champions.
And, like you, I feel that Johnny Archer is well deserving to be a first ballot H.O.F.er. If I could vote for him, I would.

But in our praise and appreciation of Johnny Archer, let's not forget the venerable Earl Strickland.

He plays as strong now as ever, however he dosent win as consistantly as he did. His game is 100% still there, he says so, i see it, i believe it. However he was tougher to beat 7 to 10 years ago than he is now-for reasons I dont know or understand. Perhaps he is getting just tired of travelling, has other interests-who know's.

I know I'm not as good of a biz man as I was 7 years ago, I aint as hungery as I was, the stress of biz has taken its toll on me. Am I still as capable? yes! Am I as effective a person as I was? no! thats me not JA, I cant speak for him. But he just might be burned out.

I know and will say that he has NO plans to retire and wants to keep playing for along time to come, he has told me so.

We dont talk about pool very much, we are the best of friends and leave the shop talk out of our friendship. He loves pool, so do I but we both take a break from it when we talk. Heck we have only played 3 times in all these years, i dont ask him about his game, he dosent ask me about mine. Kinda weird isnt it? We talk about golf and tennis more than anything.