Where is Johnny Archer in history?
- Thread starter mantis99
- Start date
Top twenty and maybe even top ten. What has hurt Johnny in his overall legacy is that he doesn't play One Pocket, only a little Banks and even less Straight Pool. At 9-Ball or Ten Ball, he has been one of the absolute best players for nearly twenty years now.
Jay you are probably right on the other games and I know that you guys have been good friends for years. I personally beloieve that I can say this with no reservation. Johnny Archer is one of the greatest pool players that ever lived.
I wish that ia was good enough at anything that someone could say that about me. I don't care what it is, one of the greatest floor sweepers etc. The man has made his mark on this sport for the rest of Pool history. My opinion.
I wish that ia was good enough at anything that someone could say that about me. I don't care what it is, one of the greatest floor sweepers etc. The man has made his mark on this sport for the rest of Pool history. My opinion.
The best 9 ball player I have personally ever watched. Handles the cue ball with great finesse and accuracy. Fantastic position player. I `ve seen a lot of the great ones in the last 40 years but JA is right there with the all time greats
The best description of his game I ever heard was "He plays the game right". To anybody that knows pocket billiards, Johnny is one of the "Masters" for sure. If I could choose to play like sombody it would be a toss up -- Johnny, Buddy, or Efren.
Archer is way up at the top. How many players have more major titles than Archer? Precious few. I agree with Jay that he only plays 9-ball predominantly so that might hurt him as being seen as an all-around legend. He does play great straight pool but hasn't won a major title in that discipline. I have the video of him running 150 and out on Jeff Carter at the 1992 14.1 U.S. Open event and he ran it effortlessly. Great player, i'm sure he could learn one pocket if he desired to.
Johnny is one of the all-time greats. He is champion in every sense of the word, having captured the toughest titles our game has to offer, and he's been an enduring credit to our game.
He turns 40 this year, which means he's BCA Hall of Fame elgible when the next vote comes around, and the case for his induction should be air-tight.
It seems like yesterday I saw Archer play a nine ball exhibition match for charity against Mike Sigel the night before the players meeting of the 1992 US Open 14.1 event. Johnny was still in his early twenties, but his game was already lethal. Also on hand were Loree Jon Jones, Nick Varner, and Jerry Orbach. From that night on, Archer's greatness was no longer a rumor for me, but instead a living breathing reality.
I hope those with a BCA Hall of Fame vote are reading this thread, for Johnny's time has come.
He turns 40 this year, which means he's BCA Hall of Fame elgible when the next vote comes around, and the case for his induction should be air-tight.
It seems like yesterday I saw Archer play a nine ball exhibition match for charity against Mike Sigel the night before the players meeting of the 1992 US Open 14.1 event. Johnny was still in his early twenties, but his game was already lethal. Also on hand were Loree Jon Jones, Nick Varner, and Jerry Orbach. From that night on, Archer's greatness was no longer a rumor for me, but instead a living breathing reality.
I hope those with a BCA Hall of Fame vote are reading this thread, for Johnny's time has come.
Last edited:
imo, he's the best 9 ball player that has ever lived.
Ironman317 said:
Even above Earl?
> I'm with the rest of the group,Johnny is top 10 for sure,at least in the 9-ball era. The only point I mildly disagree with,is that I think Johnny's 14.1 prowess is vastly underrated. Consider that he played less than 10 150 point games with quality opponents over the course of 2 dadgum weeks (J.R. Calvert and Nick) before running a 149-out against Nick in Cleveland,in the finals of the 14.1 portion of an all around event.
At the urging of the players and spectators,he stretched that run to 201 before missing ON PURPOSE,and only stopped then because they were late starting one of the first major 10-ball tournaments.
He's at had least 1 and I think 2 150-outs on Accu-Stats,and a couple more runs over 200. I don't think of Johnny as much of a 14.1 tactician like Rempe or Sigel,but jeez the way he pockets balls makes him as dangerous as all but the very best 14.1 players since the 70's. Imagine if he had vast knowledge of that discipline like Sigel or Johnny Ervolino. No disrespect to who most consider to be the best 14.1 player,John Schmidt,But I think Johnny would be at least even money to win a given 300 point match,right now today.
To my knowledge,the only living players with more signifigant titles in all games are,from the top down,Sigel,Strickland,Hall,Rempe,Reyes,and maybe Ralf Souquet.
And that's without a single one-pocket title. Tommy D.
At the urging of the players and spectators,he stretched that run to 201 before missing ON PURPOSE,and only stopped then because they were late starting one of the first major 10-ball tournaments.
He's at had least 1 and I think 2 150-outs on Accu-Stats,and a couple more runs over 200. I don't think of Johnny as much of a 14.1 tactician like Rempe or Sigel,but jeez the way he pockets balls makes him as dangerous as all but the very best 14.1 players since the 70's. Imagine if he had vast knowledge of that discipline like Sigel or Johnny Ervolino. No disrespect to who most consider to be the best 14.1 player,John Schmidt,But I think Johnny would be at least even money to win a given 300 point match,right now today.
To my knowledge,the only living players with more signifigant titles in all games are,from the top down,Sigel,Strickland,Hall,Rempe,Reyes,and maybe Ralf Souquet.
And that's without a single one-pocket title. Tommy D.
atthecat said:
I think that is a spot on assesment. I may give the longevity edge to Johnny. He seems to be playing at the highest level consistently the longest.
atthecat said:
I remember asking Earl what his high run in straight pool was and I was impressed to hear that number. I would have loved to see that.
Ironman317 said:
Earl Strickland has 6 World 9 Ball Championships, Archer has 4.
Strickland has 5 U.S. Open Championships, Archer has 1.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Luther Lassiter has 6 World 9 ball Championships AFTER the age of 44!
There were no "World 9 Ball Championships" held when Lassiter was in his prime in the 1940's and 1950's. Just imagine how many he would have won had they been held every year.
Also, I give Johnny high marks for his roadwork. Great 9 ballers are measured in major tournaments won and how they fared in money games.
Johnny and Earl were both on the road and successful. Earl, because of his Cuetect contract, as well as him wanting to clean up pool's image, stopped gambling before Johnny did. So both Johnny and Earl have some good experience on the road. Lassiter, however, made his LIVING on the road for practically his whole life. Lassiter paid his bills, and ate, only if he WON. The only job he ever had was a short stint in the U.S. Coast Guard when he was in his teens. The book residuals he made in the 1960's were paltry. All the money he ever made came from his pool winnings. He either won at pool or he didn't have money. Period.
Just think about that for a moment.....
Him and Don Willis made , in my opinion, the greatest road team in pool history.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion as to who was the G.O.A.T., but in my opinion, the top pecking order goes Luther Lassiter #1, Strickland #2 and Mike Sigel #3.
Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, Johnny Archer and Efren Reyes are all super great players, but they're on the 2nd tier behind the "Big 3".
TheNewSharkster said:
Earl has a higher gear than JA, but JA is more consistant. <----JA himself agrees with this widely held opinion(but its not important to him) he is concerned with playing his best everytime he picks up a cue and taking the best possiible care of his family he can. Thats what matters to JA!!!
JA will be in the Hall of Fame this year as he should be on his first year of eligilability, it would be a shame to see him have to wait.
I believe he is one of the best 9 ballers ever, he has played so consistantly for 20 years, not a 2 year front runner that dropped off the radar. JA has been up top doing his thing for over 20 years-that itself is amazing. He will still be a top player for at least 5 more years perhaps longer. So he is still writing his history it aint over yet by a far site.
Archer is certainly one of the top 9-ball players of his generation. I think his main problem with the way history will remember him is there are always players who seemed to overshadow him.
While Archer was voted the player of the 90's I always wondered a little at how this was. Lets face it, the golden era of Reyes was the 1990's as well, plus Strickland was right near his peak in the first half of that decade as well.
There is no doubt that back in the 90's he was a coin toss against either of those guys, but I am not sure he was the lighter side of the coin.
Another part of his problem is that he has not done much in a long time, he went through a period where most pool players are peaking and did not get himself many of those huge championships that stand out. He was his best in his 20's it seems, and for this sport you normally see the top players peak in their 30's. I think alot of us that watched Archer's rise and top calibre play in the 90's thought the guy was going to just get even more dominant in the 2000's, and I know I am a little surprised he has been less of a threat ever since the new century started.
Heck, in a way Pagulayan seems to have lost a step after looking like for a while he was going to become the most dominant player in the world, and Corey Deuel, the list of these players who peak young, dominate for a while, and then fall back into the pack. Archer seemed to be abit more consistent then either of those guys, but I cannot help but think that people might have expected more of the big wins from any of these guys then we saw in their prime competition years. Comparing their legacy with a guy like Reyes is going to be hard because he was always there at the top for so long.
If I had to guess right now Strickland and Reyes are at the top of the list on the history books for their generation. But this can change if Archer catches a gear and gives himself another trip and stay at the top of the pool world for a while, it is not like the guy is too old or does not have the skill to do it.
While Archer was voted the player of the 90's I always wondered a little at how this was. Lets face it, the golden era of Reyes was the 1990's as well, plus Strickland was right near his peak in the first half of that decade as well.
There is no doubt that back in the 90's he was a coin toss against either of those guys, but I am not sure he was the lighter side of the coin.
Another part of his problem is that he has not done much in a long time, he went through a period where most pool players are peaking and did not get himself many of those huge championships that stand out. He was his best in his 20's it seems, and for this sport you normally see the top players peak in their 30's. I think alot of us that watched Archer's rise and top calibre play in the 90's thought the guy was going to just get even more dominant in the 2000's, and I know I am a little surprised he has been less of a threat ever since the new century started.
Heck, in a way Pagulayan seems to have lost a step after looking like for a while he was going to become the most dominant player in the world, and Corey Deuel, the list of these players who peak young, dominate for a while, and then fall back into the pack. Archer seemed to be abit more consistent then either of those guys, but I cannot help but think that people might have expected more of the big wins from any of these guys then we saw in their prime competition years. Comparing their legacy with a guy like Reyes is going to be hard because he was always there at the top for so long.
If I had to guess right now Strickland and Reyes are at the top of the list on the history books for their generation. But this can change if Archer catches a gear and gives himself another trip and stay at the top of the pool world for a while, it is not like the guy is too old or does not have the skill to do it.
Don't dismiss Earl's consistency.....
Eric,
I agree with you that today (2009), Johnny is more consistent that Earl. But Earl was consistent for an awefully long time. From 1984 to 2002, Earl won those 11 World 9 Ball & U.S. Open Championships, plus scores of other tournaments such as the 1997 World Pool Master's, several Sands-Regency's, several McDermott Masters, etc, etc. In 1999, he won a World 8 Ball Championship! So Earl had a good 18 year streak where he won major championships. That's consistency!
Johnny won his first World 9 Ball Championship in 1992, his last in 1997. His U.S. Open win was in 1999. And even though he hasn't won any more World or U.S. Open titles, he did win the Super Billiard Expo Pro Players Championship back to back in 2003 & 2004. Johnny also won the 2006 Challenge of Champions, which, although it's a small invitational, it's still a great win. He also has 6 Sands-Regency Championships from June 1991 to Dec 1996. So lets say that from 1991 till now, 2009, Archer is still a serious threat to win anything he enters. But that's an 18 year period as well....
If anything, I think Johnny was stronger in the 1990's than he is today.
Earl was strong in the 1980's and 1990's. BOTH are great champions.
And, like you, I feel that Johnny Archer is well deserving to be a first ballot H.O.F.er. If I could vote for him, I would.
But in our praise and appreciation of Johnny Archer, let's not forget the venerable Earl Strickland.
Fatboy said:
Eric,
I agree with you that today (2009), Johnny is more consistent that Earl. But Earl was consistent for an awefully long time. From 1984 to 2002, Earl won those 11 World 9 Ball & U.S. Open Championships, plus scores of other tournaments such as the 1997 World Pool Master's, several Sands-Regency's, several McDermott Masters, etc, etc. In 1999, he won a World 8 Ball Championship! So Earl had a good 18 year streak where he won major championships. That's consistency!
Johnny won his first World 9 Ball Championship in 1992, his last in 1997. His U.S. Open win was in 1999. And even though he hasn't won any more World or U.S. Open titles, he did win the Super Billiard Expo Pro Players Championship back to back in 2003 & 2004. Johnny also won the 2006 Challenge of Champions, which, although it's a small invitational, it's still a great win. He also has 6 Sands-Regency Championships from June 1991 to Dec 1996. So lets say that from 1991 till now, 2009, Archer is still a serious threat to win anything he enters. But that's an 18 year period as well....
If anything, I think Johnny was stronger in the 1990's than he is today.
Earl was strong in the 1980's and 1990's. BOTH are great champions.
And, like you, I feel that Johnny Archer is well deserving to be a first ballot H.O.F.er. If I could vote for him, I would.
But in our praise and appreciation of Johnny Archer, let's not forget the venerable Earl Strickland.