Where to start with kick shots?

Willowbrook Wolfy

Willowbrook Wolfy

Going pro
Serious question. It just seems easier to make 2/3 rail kicks than 1 railers for me. My bank game is stronger than most. I have no problem banking balls. Is that normal? Or did I just skip the basics again?

A little more in depth on this is when there is a kick shot out there I’ll see the 2/3 railer right away and can make it a lot of times. Even if ball is in the middle of the table, but the 1 railer is a total “kick” in the balls for me. I just don’t see it. I see the bank shot. Or even a crafty double kiss(that is so inaccurate I almost never try it)

I’m talking the ones near the rail mostly. Middle of table is not the kick I’m talking about. And a Ball hanging inthe pocket is usually in as it should be a pretty accurate/standard shot for any mid range or above.
 
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Willowbrook Wolfy said:
Serious question. It just seems easier to make 2/3 rail kicks than 1 railers for me. My bank game is stronger than most. I have no problem banking balls. Is that normal? Or did I just skip the basics again?

A little more in depth on this is when there is a kick shot out there I’ll see the 2/3 railer right away and can make it a lot of times. Even if ball is in the middle of the table, but the 1 railer is a total “kick” in the balls for me. I just don’t see it. I see the bank shot. Or even a crafty double kiss(that is so inaccurate I almost never try it)
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Search for Tor Lowry's ' Kick-X' system. Really helps making one rail kicks. Found it:
 
garczar said:
Search for Tor Lowry's ' Kick-X' system. Really helps making one rail kicks.
Click to expand...
I might check the video out. I’m stuck in my ways a bit from when I was younger. So I still say it’s cheating aiming with your stick. Those were the rules back then. But still I might give it a go.

Maybe it’s the fact that I like banking that’s possibly holding back the one railers. 2 or 3 rail kicks are more like a bank shot than a one railer. Cause a lot of times you are going straight through OB to pocket. One railer you are cutting the OB more. Seems like the extra angles help for precision
 
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Willowbrook Wolfy said:
Serious question. It just seems easier to make 2/3 rail kicks than 1 railers for me. My bank game is stronger than most. I have no problem banking balls. Is that normal? Or did I just skip the basics again?

A little more in depth on this is when there is a kick shot out there I’ll see the 2/3 railer right away and can make it a lot of times. Even if ball is in the middle of the table, but the 1 railer is a total “kick” in the balls for me. I just don’t see it. I see the bank shot. Or even a crafty double kiss(that is so inaccurate I almost never try it)

I’m talking the ones near the rail mostly. Middle of table is not the kick I’m talking about. And a Ball hanging inthe pocket is usually in as it should be a pretty accurate/standard shot for any mid range or above.
Click to expand...
If you are missing hitting your object ball on your 1 rail kicks, it’s likely due to spin you are applying on the cue ball - likely too much spin. Learn to practice 1 rail kicks with no spin, with different amounts of left spin and right spin, and at different speeds, until you feel more confident.

As far as successfully pocketing kick shots, that’s far more difficult. Most players are more accurate at pocketing 1 rail kicks when the object ball is close enough to the rail / pocket, by applying some amount of running spin on the cue ball with a softer paced stroke.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
I might check the video out. I’m stuck in my ways a bit from when I was younger. So I still say it’s cheating aiming with your stick. Those were the rules back then. But still I might give it a go.

Maybe it’s the fact that I like banking that’s possibly holding back the one railers. 2 or 3 rail kicks are more like a bank shot than a one railer. Cause a lot of times you are going straight through OB to pocket. One railer you are cutting the OB a lot of times.
Click to expand...
Using your cue is not cheating as long as you're not marking the spot by using 'tip mark' on the cloth. Pretty soon you can use the system just purely visually.
 
One rail kicks when the object ball is center table are the toughest.
I call them open field tackles.
Always prefer a two rail kick.
You can zero in on them better with your speed for a safe.
 
garczar said:
Using your cue is not cheating as long as you're not marking the spot by using 'tip mark' on the cloth. Pretty soon you can use the system just purely visually.
Click to expand...
Ok. I have never aimed a shot with my cue. Not even once. Unless it happened before I was 12 which I can’t recall. There’s a bit of superstition to that also at this point. I’m going to watch this video later and go from there. The kick shot definitely needs some work. Thanks Garczar.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
Serious question. It just seems easier to make 2/3 rail kicks than 1 railers for me. My bank game is stronger than most. I have no problem banking balls. Is that normal? Or did I just skip the basics again?

A little more in depth on this is when there is a kick shot out there I’ll see the 2/3 railer right away and can make it a lot of times. Even if ball is in the middle of the table, but the 1 railer is a total “kick” in the balls for me. I just don’t see it. I see the bank shot. Or even a crafty double kiss(that is so inaccurate I almost never try it)

I’m talking the ones near the rail mostly. Middle of table is not the kick I’m talking about. And a Ball hanging inthe pocket is usually in as it should be a pretty accurate/standard shot for any mid range or above.
Click to expand...

https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/best-banks-info.535507/
 
Hey thank you guys! I just wrote a big long reply I ended up delete it.cause it answered my own question. I’ve been aiming at the ball instead of the destination. I don’t know if that makes any sense to anyone reading this. But it Makes sense why they don’t go in for me. It’s a matter of aiming. The ball is only 2-1/4” while the rail is 9ft long. Well 4-1/2’ or 9’. A lot more acceptable margin of error shooting at a 1” section as opposed to a 1/8” one

Seriously without me starting this thread and your responses it would’ve never dawned on me. So thank you!
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
Serious question. It just seems easier to make 2/3 rail kicks than 1 railers for me. My bank game is stronger than most. I have no problem banking balls. Is that normal? Or did I just skip the basics again?

A little more in depth on this is when there is a kick shot out there I’ll see the 2/3 railer right away and can make it a lot of times. Even if ball is in the middle of the table, but the 1 railer is a total “kick” in the balls for me. I just don’t see it. I see the bank shot. Or even a crafty double kiss(that is so inaccurate I almost never try it)

I’m talking the ones near the rail mostly. Middle of table is not the kick I’m talking about. And a Ball hanging inthe pocket is usually in as it should be a pretty accurate/standard shot for any mid range or above.
Click to expand...

How proficient are you with english? Do you make micro adjustments or do you think in 1/8" or 1/4" tip adjustments? Unless you can make micro adjustments kicks will be hard.

When I'm practicing kicks I will put the CB near the bottom right corner and go straight down table and try coming back and hitting the first diamond, then the middle diamond, then the far left diamond, then try making it in the left corner, remember, I'm starting on the right and always hitting straight down table and using english to get the cue ball to these positions (see below). Then I start moving the CB left across the table and repeating the patterns.

The most important thing for me is to visualize the kick. I don't mean stare at it for a long time, I mean follow the path of the CB to exactly where you need it to go. Pick your spot on the rail and then follow the path, then visually move the spot and follow that path, then move it again and follow that path, eventually, the correct path will come to light.

A lot of times, I will actually try to play the kick spot (initial rail contact with CB) a little short and use a bit of english to swing the CB into the line of the OB, not sure why/how/when I started doing this but it works very well for me. The diagrams below are things I practice very frequently. I may not do them all at once but if I'm just banging balls around I kick A LOT of stuff.

IMHO, if you just start trying to kick balls without learning how to control the CB like below you will struggle. Keep it simple then add the object ball in later.

Eventually as you progress, you will start practicing with follow and draw to mess with the line of attack. Have a kick that needs shortened up, if you've practiced that 1000 times you will know how deep you can go into the angle and still hit the OB.

I like kicking :)


1651176786498.png


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There are no end of resources for kick theory, and nobody's system is better than anyone else's system for one rail kicks. Please allow me some speculation here.

Those who have a reasonable command of the table angles but struggle with their one rail kicks, in my opinion, are often the ones that choose the aim before they choose the english, the speed, and the high/low orientation of the cue ball. Over the years, I've run into some world class players who sometimes got this wrong.

If you pick the aim first, you can miss a kick due to a) hitting with english, b) lengthening out a kick because you hit if soft, c) shortening a kick by hitting it hard. Another thing that can cause missed one-railers is unintended masse. When a kick is being hit firm and the cue is raised, there is a danger that you'll masse into the first rail.

Make sure you pick the speed, english, and high/low orientation on the cue ball before you choose your aim. Maybe you already do, but if you are struggling with your one-railers, I'm betting against.
 
Willow, Howdy;

For 1 rail kicks, one of the best methods is know as "System Sid".
Google is your friend. OR,
if you have a copy of R. Givens' "Eight Ball Bible" it it's in there.

hank
 
Here's a simple way to find the mirror image of your target ball and use it to find the equal-angle aim point on the rail. In practice you can mark the rail target with a coin or piece of chalk - in a match you'd "mark" it visually using the diamonds.

It takes a little walking around and measuring with your stick, but it's accurate and an instructive way to learn to see the equal-angles.

pj
chgo

Mirror Kick.jpg
 
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sjm said:
There are no end of resources for kick theory, and nobody's system is better than anyone else's system for one rail kicks. Please allow me some speculation here.

Those who have a reasonable command of the table angles but struggle with their one rail kicks, in my opinion, are often the ones that choose the aim before they choose the english, the speed, and the high/low orientation of the cue ball. Over the years, I've run into some world class players who sometimes got this wrong.

If you pick the aim first, you can miss a kick due to a) hitting with english, b) lengthening out a kick because you hit if soft, c) shortening a kick by hitting it hard. Another thing that can cause missed one-railers is unintended masse. When a kick is being hit firm and the cue is raised, there is a danger that you'll masse into the first rail.

Make sure you pick the speed, english, and high/low orientation on the cue ball before you choose your aim. Maybe you already do, but if you are struggling with your one-railers, I'm betting against.
Click to expand...
Thank you. In a sense I never felt a huge need for good kicks and I really haven’t practiced them much until recently. One of those-“you win some you lose some”attitudes. I’ve never had a problem kicking at the OB and/or playing easy safeties off of them. Just never have focused on making them or getting excellent position. Whereas I practice banks all the time.

Probably 1-2 years of my total play time has gone to banking. In an hour measurement. . Just on banking. That would be 10-20 hours a week for 1-2 years. A lot of banks just feel like they are straight in shots at this point. Making the kicks is rough though. What you are saying makes sense. I do usually aim first.
 
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