wow great stats dude..thxasiasdad said:
Which cues/cuemakers have gone down in value/quality?
- Thread starter BrooklynJay
- Start date
Tokyo-dave said:
if jerry lorded over all that left his shop, then there will be the inevitable drop in quality and i don't care what SW says.
from personnal experience,,,,i purchased an SW that had crooked grain in the shaft, and their excuse was "every cue is tested and the cue passed their test". well, crooked grain is crooked grain.......period. it was sent back. i also had a shaft from another cue that they f*cked up when they retapered it.
i think SW cues are very consistant hitting cues, and i must marvel at their quality from cue to cue,,,,,but they don't have to blow smoke up my @ss when i have a problem with specific issues.
Last edited:
My guess is that you'll continue to see the drop in perceived value with many of the cues mentioned above. (Quality is generally not an issue, with a few noteable exceptions that have been mentioned). This is because of several reasons but a few biggies come to my mind:
~ flooded market...there's a lot of wood out there, lots of choices, and most everybody today is making a really nice cue
~ the sport is simply not growing as fast as the growth in cuemakers...that is players that will pay a premium price for a nice cue (I'm talking $500-$1000)
~ the economy is in a unsure state right now and gas/living expenses are at an all-time high, resulting in less disposable income for middle class buyers
Sean
~ flooded market...there's a lot of wood out there, lots of choices, and most everybody today is making a really nice cue
~ the sport is simply not growing as fast as the growth in cuemakers...that is players that will pay a premium price for a nice cue (I'm talking $500-$1000)
~ the economy is in a unsure state right now and gas/living expenses are at an all-time high, resulting in less disposable income for middle class buyers
Sean
pharaoh68
Banned
poolbiz420 said:
I couldn't really say. What I can say is that Paul Drexler makes some "interesting" designs. But there is a degree of inconsistency that seems ever-present. Some cues seem to get sharp points. Others get rounded, cnc'd points. Some cues get radial pins or 3/8x11 pins. Some cues get uni-loc joints. I don't know why he is so inconsistent. I just know that to me, that (and a few other factors) make him less desireable than others.
As far as some of the other names people have mentioned, I would have to agree that it seems Bill McDaniel seems to be a tough sell these days. Perhaps its because many of his cues are catalog cues that feature the same design (which isn't terribly original anyway).
pooldogue said:Ithink that the bottom line is everyone at one time or another might have or had already had quality issues........... Not to high jack this thread , the wood we get now and the wood we got back in the day are two different animals.................
I would have to say that the wood I'm getting my hands on is of premium quality...
________
Last edited:
cueaddicts said:
Great points.
I also feel that some production cue companies/custom cue makers who make production cues like Jacoby, Predator, Pechauer are putting out a really good product these days.
I've also seen people take low end production cues and slap a Predator shaft on it and *boom* - decent hitting cue.
It seems players don't need to spend the big $$$ to have a decent cue like they did in the past.
While this is true there are still many people with the funds to purchase high end cues and know that this is often the best time to buy. Many of the once premium cues are not fetching the $$$ they once did from collectors.
Using recent ebay activity as an example:
SW cue - price is still at a premium with one auction at $1700+
Espirtu - just sold for $400
McDaniels - $1000 (1 bid)
Just wondering why the McDaniels and the Espiritu aren't fetching the prices they once did.
Poor Cokers, they get no respect. There's really not that many for sale on ebay, a couple right now. The Coker I had was beautiful, Ebony and Tulip wood (and hit like a dream), but the main problem with Coker and Espirtu cues are the designs. I swear 80 to 90% of the Coker and Espirtu cues I see for sale are just plain (do I dare say) UGLY.
Maybe I'm old school but simple is always better. Not plain jane but at least nice color combinations with the designs. Let's be honest, looks are very important. I know it shouldn't matter what the cue looks like but how it plays. But to the average Joe, looks is probably right at the top of the list.
Cuemakers, leave the 40 zig-zag lines off the butt and make a nice simple cue with nice colors and veneers and it will sell.
And Cuetec, take the Billboard sized name off the cue and you might just sell a few more.
Maybe I'm old school but simple is always better. Not plain jane but at least nice color combinations with the designs. Let's be honest, looks are very important. I know it shouldn't matter what the cue looks like but how it plays. But to the average Joe, looks is probably right at the top of the list.
Cuemakers, leave the 40 zig-zag lines off the butt and make a nice simple cue with nice colors and veneers and it will sell.
And Cuetec, take the Billboard sized name off the cue and you might just sell a few more.
A few cues I would say that don't seem to bring much any more would have to be!! 1. bludworth cue's (So blud will get mad oh well it true)
2. Mcdermott d-sereis cues
3. russ espiritu
4. coker
5. Dale perry
6. Bill Mcdaniels ( He just quit making cues) I play with one myself.
7. jerry oliver
8. mike sigel
9. phillipi
10. jacoby
I have owned all the cues above but a coker and the sigel.There good cue's. I would buy any of them again Except the bludworth. I never realy cared for the hit of his cues.But he is a smart cue maker who does make a nice cue.I think a lot of custom cue's. Resale, is not very good is because of the huge discount a dealer can get on a custom cue like threw j&j and places like that.Kills the resale.I think Areil carmeli will be next on the list.
2. Mcdermott d-sereis cues
3. russ espiritu
4. coker
5. Dale perry
6. Bill Mcdaniels ( He just quit making cues) I play with one myself.
7. jerry oliver
8. mike sigel
9. phillipi
10. jacoby
I have owned all the cues above but a coker and the sigel.There good cue's. I would buy any of them again Except the bludworth. I never realy cared for the hit of his cues.But he is a smart cue maker who does make a nice cue.I think a lot of custom cue's. Resale, is not very good is because of the huge discount a dealer can get on a custom cue like threw j&j and places like that.Kills the resale.I think Areil carmeli will be next on the list.
Last edited:
asiasdad
Banned
I keep an orignial red dot Blud SP in my home display case, not so much for playability (although it ain't bad) but more so that it is the truest to form SP I've ever seen. When that thing screws together, you still have to look for the joint even though you know its there. That's art.
asiasdad said:
I agree with your list with the exception of Ray Schuler cues.
Original Ray Schuler cues do well.
Ray Schuler SLC (Signature Legacy Cues) which were made after his death do not hold their value.
ruk
pharaoh68
Banned
bigpocket said:
While the original point of this thread was to explore what cuemakers have gone down in terms of value AND quality, most people have focused on quality; myself included.
Several of the cuemakers already mentioned by others (as well as by bigpocket) have seemingly taken a big hit in terms of the value of their cues. Perhaps this is a result of quality. Who knows?
In some cases, its because of dealers. Sometimes, dealers get involved and pump up a cue maker so much that he raises his prices. Yet the quality was never really there in the first place. Now you have a cuemaker making the same mediocre cues trying to command prices generally reserved for better cuemakers and their product! I can think of one such instance that this has happened with a name mention in this thread (though I won't say who becuase I don't feel like arguing that one).
Hell! Dale Perry did it to himself! He started to receive a bit of a buzz so he began cranking out cues in volume but never improved the quality. He just upped the prices and kept the cues the same. Now, they are going for next to nothing on ebay. And that's a good thing because they aren't that great to begin with.
Thoe that I mentioned earlier:
1) Espiritu
2) Dale Perry
3) McDaniel
Those that I forgot to mention:
1) Phillippi
2) Coker
Benson Cue
I bought an old Benson in Vegas @ the BCA Championships. It has a laminated butt and the cue hits like great..... I contacted Benson and emailed pics to him and he said the cue is about 20 years old. The cue is in excellent condition and it's one of my regular playing cues. I emailed him 2 weeks ago about making me a new shaft and joint protector and never heard from him again. So that's all I know.
macaframa said:
I bought an old Benson in Vegas @ the BCA Championships. It has a laminated butt and the cue hits like great..... I contacted Benson and emailed pics to him and he said the cue is about 20 years old. The cue is in excellent condition and it's one of my regular playing cues. I emailed him 2 weeks ago about making me a new shaft and joint protector and never heard from him again. So that's all I know.
SheLoves2play
Registered
Russ Espiritu cues?
I have not been playing pool long enough to see the changes in cue values and quality over the years. I have an 2000 limmited edition Espiritu. I really like the balance and hit. About a year ago I bought a relatively inexpensive Espiritu. Worth about $400. I didn't notice a difference in the hit of the cues. Only that the $400 cue had no inlay work. So after reading what everybody has said about Espiritu cues I am wondering. Was I lucky to get a good hitting recently made Espiritu? What about the older ones, are they declining in value too? I am not a "diehard Espiritu Fan" or anything. I just really like my cue and am cofmfortable with the hit...
SL2P
I have not been playing pool long enough to see the changes in cue values and quality over the years. I have an 2000 limmited edition Espiritu. I really like the balance and hit. About a year ago I bought a relatively inexpensive Espiritu. Worth about $400. I didn't notice a difference in the hit of the cues. Only that the $400 cue had no inlay work. So after reading what everybody has said about Espiritu cues I am wondering. Was I lucky to get a good hitting recently made Espiritu? What about the older ones, are they declining in value too? I am not a "diehard Espiritu Fan" or anything. I just really like my cue and am cofmfortable with the hit...
SL2P
asiasdad
Banned
No kidding?
Then the cue dealers must have been trying to steal a 98+% SC-225 I had with 2 shafts. Fortunately after going no bid twice on ebay, someone actually bought it with a buy it now and I broke even after having it go nowhere for 18 months.
I'm not talking about quality here, only re-sale. The cue hit extremely well compared to cues that actually hold their value better that I have, and I actually miss that pre '99 cue. I just find it amazing to put it politely that a cue from this "legend gone by" does not escalate in value like many of the others have.
rukiddingme said:
Then the cue dealers must have been trying to steal a 98+% SC-225 I had with 2 shafts. Fortunately after going no bid twice on ebay, someone actually bought it with a buy it now and I broke even after having it go nowhere for 18 months.
I'm not talking about quality here, only re-sale. The cue hit extremely well compared to cues that actually hold their value better that I have, and I actually miss that pre '99 cue. I just find it amazing to put it politely that a cue from this "legend gone by" does not escalate in value like many of the others have.
I really don't know how the hit would be any different.SheLoves2play said:
Espi's have that really heavy ss collar and skinny handle.
If the hit is changing for the bad, then the quality of the wood used must be going down.