which favors the higher-rated player, winner break or alt. break?

I have long thought we are looking at the wrong stat when we look at break and runs without looking at break and wins. Give the player with superior planning the break and when they can't run out you will see them running to the best safety, not the last possible ball they can make.

While break and runs don't matter a whole lot in tournaments unless too many people are watching they are bad ju-ju gambling. I was usually working my circuit alone most of the week. The last thing I wanted to do was come in and break and run when the people I was playing couldn't. I never broke and ran before my opponent did. Once they opened the door I might break and run a few racks. String racks together? Not no but hell no! Sure as sin somebody will be watching to snitch me out somewhere down the road when it mattered. I played on seven foot tables to ten foot tables and was happy on any of them. I don't remember things like the biggest "pack" I put together, not more than three or four unless I am forgetting some of the crazy nights. I probably made more than that a few nights when things were crazy.

Talking about template racks, there are several issues with them when trying to compare them to old school triangles. First, most are designed to hold the balls together under slight pressure, the holes they are sitting on pull the balls in against each other. A triangle doesn't do the same thing, once it is gone there is nothing holding the racked balls against each other under pressure like a template that stays there. Another thing, there are usually provisions to put the templates in the same place over and over. Just racking the balls and breaking trains the cloth to hold the balls together. We talk about a lot of things equipmentwise but rarely about the racks themselves adding to more effective breaks.

With my home table I could get perfect racks with a triangle, I could get perfect racks with the template, but breaking off the template was distinctly different. The balls open up better off of a template in my experience. There is a tiny amount of force holding the balls together in a template rack and this has to be overcome before balls move. I think this holds the front of the racked balls together until the force moves through the entire formation better than loose balls that have been assembled by hand or using a triangle. No proof of this, just speculation. However, I would never get in a break competition where some were allowed to use templates and I had to use a triangle. I wouldn't compete in straight pool high run competitions where a privileged few were using different cleaned and polished balls than the masses either.

Years ago I shot a weekly steel plate match. A half-dozen competitors were able to use full jacketed bullets while most weren't allowed to. When our times were measured in thousandths of a second or smaller units, a comparatively heavy metal jacket took the plates down faster than a hollow pointed bullet like I used inside the rules or a lead or lead nosed bullet. We competed man on man like a round robin in pool so the win/loss record of every match was important. Lose by a thousandth of a second or have a brainfart or equipment malfunction and lose by seconds it was all the same, win/loss was all that mattered. I would have been allowed to use the jacketed bullets too if I wanted to. I had an ethical problem with it when most had to follow the rules. Bringing this around to pool, often the tables in a tournament aren't the same. Different pocket sizes, different brands, different locations in the venue. These things can matter a lot and I try to make sure that my toughest competition doesn't gain an edge because they are playing on or with different equipment.

Hu
 
in the WCOP final phil yates just said
this is why you (boyes) and I like winner break
the whole match could turn around off of one shot

Perhaps atlarge has the numbers for us but I think it is very rare for someone to run a six pack or more in major competition. As long as the races are to seven or more, preferably nine or more, I don't see where winner breaks, alternate breaks, or loser breaks matters a whole lot in rotation. I wouldn't invest much to play one pocket winner breaks unless I had a huge edge.

Giving the break to a poor player is just an opportunity for them to open things up and maybe clear some traffic off the table so I have often let a weak player break. As far as I am concerned, I am the one getting the spot most of the time.

Hu
 
And how does this relate to pool? Who cares who shoots first in golf and bowling when you at least still get a chance to match what your opponent does!

In pool you can’t get out of your chair if the player breaks and runs. Then he gets the chance to do it all over again without any participation from the other player!
That's not a logical argument. It's not in the rules that both players have to participate in every game. 9 Ball was never designed to be a game of even chances. It's survival of the fittest. If you have a problem with that then maybe you should stick to less competitive games.
 
That's not a logical argument. It's not in the rules that both players have to participate in every game. 9 Ball was never designed to be a game of even chances. It's survival of the fittest. If you have a problem with that then maybe you should stick to less competitive games.

You are the one who brought up bowling and golf not me. You’re argument is the one lacking logic not mine.

Having equal chances to compete is the point of playing sports. It’s not a matter of having a chance every game you might not have a chance at ALL for multiple games or the whole set which makes no sense.
 
That's not a logical argument. It's not in the rules that both players have to participate in every game. 9 Ball was never designed to be a game of even chances. It's survival of the fittest. If you have a problem with that then maybe you should stick to less competitive games.
This isn't a logical argument...lol. What's the point in entering a supposed 'competition' if you may not even touch the table...? It becomes an exhibition and the audience gets to watch only who wins the lag.

The Golf analogy was terrible. It only holds water if the scoring scheme was reversed and the player losing the previous hole doesn't a chance to play the next hole..lol.

While I prefer to see players actually compete, I understand and appreciate the winner break format. However imo it only has competitive merit if the races are long enough that the odds of running a package and preventing an inning for your opponent is unlikely, and the break is difficult enough that generating such inningless racks in succession is again difficult. MatchRoom is doing a great job keeping the winner break format alive while not dropping competitive entertainment.

If an organizing body wanted short races and winner break then I believe the Predator 10b series is close to the best format. Very short multiple sets, winner break, and starting break of each set alternates. ...oh and do away with the shoot out. Tie breaking set is settled by a '2 ahead' score.
 
the better player is going to have more break and run outs
the better player is going to win more games if he gets a chance at the table with a decent shot or safety to make
so to me
all formats favor the better player
jmho
icbw

Yes sir. But I have to believe winner breaks is definitely an advantage for better players. If the better player snaps off several racks in a row with winner breaking, the weaker player will likely never be able to catch up. At least with an alternating break format the weaker player has a chance to keep up, if they can break decent and not play balls out ignorant on every shot.

Playing a buddy one night who has a fargo score about 40 points higher than mine.. he put a 6pk on me. When I got chance I put a 3pk on him, but I've never run 6. Got a lot of 3pks, and I've hit 4 a time or two, but never 6. Playing him with alternate break format evens up the match quite a bit in a race to 7 or 9.
 
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