Which pros DON'T gamble?

[macguy]

Lot's of posts recently about the better money players, and the best action from your home state ect. I'm curious about the well known pros that are not known to play for money either having quit after having some sucess on the tour, or having never been a money player in the first place.
dave

My experience is most pros don't really gamble that much and never have although some do and they are easily spotted because they are the ones with money one day and none the next. Backers put players in action and often instigate the games or the players get a game and look for someone to back them. I dare say many matches neither player is betting any of their own money. On the road is another matter, the road player out classes the competition and it is just a matter of getting some local champ to play but the road player is not really gambling at all. The real gamblers are few and far between.

I love when I hear a player say in the pool room, "No one in this place wants to gamble". What he is really saying is no one will give away their money, let him make a fair game and he will have plenty of people get up to play, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. Another funny observation in the pool room is you often see just average players banging heads at what are very tough games for them showing a lot of gamble. At the same time the best players in the room won't get up and play each other at all, showing zero gamble. The weaker players are far less nits then the better players in most cases.

 

[vivalaraza]

allison gambling

I have never seen or heard Allison Fisher play anyone for money.

Have any of you?

Richard

an old road player who is a pretty reliable source said that allison gambles at her home room (north carolina?). there was a story going around a couple years ago that she gambled with cliff joyner playing 9 ball.

 

[TATE]

I think Filipino Marlon Manalo doesn't gamble. Apparently he grew up in a family with a stable economy, and didn't need the extra cash.

Manolo gambles. I think you will find that most Filipinos gamble, and enjoy it.

Chris

 

[Deadon]

My experience is most pros don't really gamble that much and never have although some do and they are easily spotted because they are the ones with money one day and none the next. Backers put players in action and often instigate the games or the players get a game and look for someone to back them. I dare say many matches neither player is betting any of their own money.

First, women pros don't count.

You can count on one hand the number of "pros" that haven't gambled, and most will be Europeans. Here's a challenge for you; List the players that have never gambled.

Now list the "pros" that won't gamble, ever. I'll give you two hands.

Now list the ones that do and will?

And as far as the "Wolfin" at each other, I love it! And so do most of us that play or have played seriously. Anyone that hasn't enjoyed Fats, Allen, or perhaps Bucktooth do their act, hasn't lived pool. Keith, Ronny Allen, Red, Cole and many others established their reputations-see Keiths birthday thread- by doing just what you say you don't like. Then why are these players so popular? Because these are the players people want to watch, and hear. See IPT threads.

And there are a lot of nits, lockup artists, like there is in every other facet of our lives. I'll go there with you. But there are also alot of good players that will put their own cash on the line and step up to a tough game.

PLAY HARD AND BET HIGH.

From an older players point of view.

 

[wahcheck]

gambling or conning?

My experience is most pros don't really gamble that much and never have although some do and they are easily spotted because they are the ones with money one day and none the next. Backers put players in action and often instigate the games or the players get a game and look for someone to back them. I dare say many matches neither player is betting any of their own money. On the road is another matter, the road player out classes the competition and it is just a matter of getting some local champ to play but the road player is not really gambling at all. The real gamblers are few and far between.

I love when I hear a player say in the pool room, "No one in this place wants to gamble". What he is really saying is no one will give away their money, let him make a fair game and he will have plenty of people get up to play, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. Another funny observation in the pool room is you often see just average players banging heads at what are very tough games for them showing a lot of gamble. At the same time the best players in the room won't get up and play each other at all, showing zero gamble. The weaker players are far less nits then the better players in most cases.

I agree with you about some people that purport to look for a "gambling" game....what I sense for the most part in many cases is that people are always looking for a "no gamble game"....that is, the NUTS....so it's more of a con game, isn't it?

 

[KSgirl]

whatever happened to Michael Coltrain anyway? Does he hae a health issue or just decide to move on to bigger and better things?

 

[wahcheck]

Coltraine

whatever happened to Michael Coltrain anyway? Does he hae a health issue or just decide to move on to bigger and better things?

Seems a couple of years ago, a physical problem developed where his shooting arm was shaking uncontrollably and I think that was the end of his pro career.....somebody tell me if I'm mistaken.......

 

[KSgirl]

Coltrain

Seems a couple of years ago, a physical problem developed where his shooting arm was shaking uncontrollably and I think that was the end of his pro career.....somebody tell me if I'm mistaken.......

Gosh, i'm sorry to hear that... I wonder what causes that - Dick Lane's shooting arm does that as well (maybe not as bad). I got the pleasure of seeing Michael several years ago at a tournament in Olathe, KS and he was impressive. They blew the little train whistle for him!

 

[TSW]

As a young player, I personally despise the gambling side of the game. I'll play cheap sets in order to get my opponent's A-game, but that's all. The gambling aspect is what's keeping pool from attaining real sponsorship and becoming a more profitable sport, on the lines of bowling or table tennis.

 

[Gerry]

As a young player, I personally despise the gambling side of the game. I'll play cheap sets in order to get my opponent's A-game, but that's all. The gambling aspect is what's keeping pool from attaining real sponsorship and becoming a more profitable sport, on the lines of bowling or table tennis.

NOT A CHANCE!......I have worked in, and been around bowling centers, golf courses, and pool rooms my whole life, and trust me.......MORE gambling goes on in bowling alleys, and on golf courses then you will ever see in a pool room!

It's not the gambling that hold pool back....it's the pseudo fear people have about pool rooms, and the patrons......You may be too young to remember "the color of money" boost we had in pool? EVERYONE was playing, and having a great time.

Seems like whenever a good pool movie comes out we get a boost....then it fades away......

Gerry

 

[ScottR]

I agree with you about some people that purport to look for a "gambling" game....what I sense for the most part in many cases is that people are always looking for a "no gamble game"....that is, the NUTS....so it's more of a con game, isn't it?

tap, tap

 

[pool]

You know what? I am really glad to see this post. I am not what most would probably even consider a "B" player, but I love pool and take it pretty seriously. I have a few nice sticks, captain a couple teams, hit the Super Billiards Expo, etc. etc.. After all the time I have put into the game, I still HATE to gamble. I mean, just plain hate it. It takes all of the enjoyment out of the game for me. Even the feeling of winning isn't very good. I feel bad I took somebody's money. I will say that the odd 25-cent, fifty-cent ring game with friends, or some 3-ball can be fun, but you aren't hurting anybody there and it is a group activity. What I really hate is a straight-up money game.

I am really encouraged to hear about these pros that don't gamble. I don't think that gambling is inherantly wrong, but needing to gamble in order to play your best pool cheapens it to me. Only playing to gamble is a vulgarity to me. It turns something that is a passion, or a discipline into the basest means to an end. The pursuit of excellence is no longer the drive, but greed.

Whoa, sorry for the rant. I really rambled there...

 

[TSW]

NOT A CHANCE!......I have worked in, and been around bowling centers, golf courses, and pool rooms my whole life, and trust me.......MORE gambling goes on in bowling alleys, and on golf courses then you will ever see in a pool room!

Maybe so, and I suppose the boost in poker the last few years proves that gambling isn't a death knell. However, I think the sport would attract MANY more big-time corporate sponsors if you distance the professional game from seedy back-room gambling. There may be hustlers in golf, but you never hear about PGA players involved in hustling ventures. That's the kind of upstanding professionalism that will attract sponsorship.

 

[Cameron Smith]

NOT A CHANCE!......I have worked in, and been around bowling centers, golf courses, and pool rooms my whole life, and trust me.......MORE gambling goes on in bowling alleys, and on golf courses then you will ever see in a pool room!

It's not the gambling that hold pool back....it's the pseudo fear people have about pool rooms, and the patrons......You may be too young to remember "the color of money" boost we had in pool? EVERYONE was playing, and having a great time.

Seems like whenever a good pool movie comes out we get a boost....then it fades away......

Gerry

Pool is inexorably tied to gambling. Everytime someone runs three balls what do you typically hear from recreational players "Wow your a shark". Gambling and hustling are so much a part of pool culture, so much so that in order to improve your game you have to play A players and pros, but in order to play these guys you have to throw a few 20's on the table.

Everything that has ever brough pool into the public eye at one point or another has involved gambling, The Hustler, The Colour of Money, Pool Hall Junkies and Minnesota Fats. These three movies and one person has solidified the public's idea of pool. And now I hear of a movie about Danny Basivich's life as a road player. There has never been (to my knowledge) a movie about a pro pool player. Most golfing movies I have seen involves a player trying to make it on the tour or win a tournament. Of course the Colour of Money ended with a pro tournament, but the movie made the point that gambling is where the money is at.

Where was I going with this????? Um ok, After all of that though I kinda of agree with you that the gambling doesn't matter much, as long as the game is popular. Poker is a prime example. I think that the marketing of the sport can be handled differently. How? Well I probably should give that a bit more thought.

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

...When I spoke to Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant at the 2004 DCC and again at a local tournament, he was not gambling and showed me some stuff he'd written about the subject. But then I saw him in the 2006 DCC ring 10-ball game, where each player had to put up money, so I don't know what his gambling status is at present...kinda curious..

I saw Hillbilly gambling 2 years ago (maybe 3) at the BCA or VNEA tournament in Vegas with Surfer Rob (Rod? Bob? I don't know). They were playing last pocket 8ball with a big ball on a bar table for 5k/game. The Surfer guy kicked in an 8 ball after blowing his position... for 5k! Charlie won a couple overall I heard. It was very entertaining to say the least.

My opinion on this subject is that Gambling is part of the game, I for one enjoy seeing or hearing about two greats matching up and fighting it out. I agree that makes it tough for corporate sponsorship but we should try to do it like golf, they have managed to figure it out and trust me they gamble, it's woven into the fabric of the game just like it is in pool. Just about every saturday 4some has a bet going, if you don't believe that you don't golf.

I really don't understand why it's so negative. I understand that it can be a vice for some people but not the majority for sure. There are some things people should stay away from if they can't handle it... gambling, alchohol, drugs, sex, even food for some people. I guess I'm just a libertarian on the subject.

Alex

 

[Rickw]

I don't think gambling has to hurt pool if it's done with some integrity. The problem with gambling in pool is when people with no integrity do it and you get all the ugly drama coming out of it.

I love to watch two good players play for money and handle themselves as gentlemen. This is called class and pool just doesn't have enough of that right now. I think the Filipino players, for the most part, have some of that class when they gamble. If they lose, which they don't do very often, they shrug their shoulders and smile.

I've heard of a few players that gambled and then got religion and stopped only to return to gambling eventually. I think it's very difficult for the average pro player to make it without gambling or working because there just isn't enough money in this sport right now to make it full time if you're an average level pro.

 

[gregoryg]

To bet or not to bet, that is the question!

I started playing seriously(trying to learn to play well) when I was 17. I bought myself a table as a graduation present to myself. I played on it relentlessly for six months, after that I started going to the pool rooms, where I learned how much I still had to learn! Part of that just happened to involve playing for something, whether that was for the time, a beverage or some cash. Few of those times did not involve playing for something. I have no hard core need to play for money like a lot of people do. My main goal is to just play hard and win, just to stay at the table. I never hustle people and am never the first to one to say "Do you want to play for something?". I feel that if you can really play, you should have the ability to play your "A" game even when there is no money involved, you should be able to win simply because you play better than your opponent. The crutch of having to play for money should not be necessary to win.

 

[1 Pocket Ghost]

I don't think gambling has to hurt pool if it's done with some integrity. The problem with gambling in pool is when people with no integrity do it and you get all the ugly drama coming out of it.

I love to watch two good players play for money and handle themselves as gentlemen. This is called class and pool just doesn't have enough of that right now.

Rick, You've hit the nail smack on the head with those four sentences...I couldn't agree more.

 

[Rickw]

Thanks

Rick, You've hit the nail smack on the head with those four sentences...I couldn't agree more.

Thanks! It's always nice to get some validation!