while doing a long distance draw back

[sfleinen]

Willie Hoppe closed bridge

Aaron...That's just your perception. If you twist your wrist on your closed bridge, the thumb will drop down onto the cloth, and it will be just as easy to draw the CB accurately, as with an open bridge. Many people "bind" the cue over their knuckles with a closed bridge, and this creates what you're perceiving. In reality you should be able to strike the CB at maximum low (3 tips) just as easily with an closed bridge as with an open bridge.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott:

Great post. It's important to note that there are different forms of the closed bridge, with some forms more amenable to lowering to the table than others.

One form that fits this "adjustable crane" architecture, is the Willie Hoppe closed bridge, as described in this vintage/nostalgic video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sc4iaJWu8Ak#t=155

The dated/obsolete methods of stroking from the shoulder aside, the info about this particular bridge is sound. I'm not fond of the "flesh moving" thing -- Willie looks like he needs some talc in there or something -- but the idea of folding the middle finger at the second knuckle, so it's tucked under the hand to offer a "jacking mechanism" for the hand really works. At its lowest point -- i.e. the middle finger fully folded under -- the entire palm and whole side of the thumb are actually resting upon the table surface. You can't get any lower than that -- even with an open bridge!

-Sean

 

[Scott Lee]

walrus_3d...Excellent advice. Here's another little 'trick'...when I work with students who have trouble hitting low enough, and tend to miscue, I have them get to the point in their process where they are ready to pull the cue back for their final backswing (we call it the 'set' position)...then have them close their eyes, pull back and deliver the cuestick. Many folks will quit miscuing doing this, as when you take away sight, all you're left with is feel.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

When I jump trying to draw, I can usually feel that I was gripping the cue with my right hand instead of keeping my grip loose. For power draw I'm almost letting go of the cue, my grip is so loose. If you jump a ball, try the shot again focusing on loosening up your shooting hand.

 

[walrus_3d]

walrus_3d...Excellent advice. Here's another little 'trick'...when I work with students who have trouble hitting low enough, and tend to miscue, I have them get to the point in their process where they are ready to pull the cue back for their final backswing (we call it the 'set' position)...then have them close their eyes, pull back and deliver the cuestick. Many folks will quit miscuing doing this, as when you take away sight, all you're left with is feel.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I'm really good at giving advice on things I do badly. I can even line people up for banks I can't make.

Fun story about the closed eye stroke (which I think is another awesome training tool): I was playing a friend of mine at a bar late-ish in the afternoon, and they hadn't closed the blinds. At one point in the games, the sun was (shining upon the sea, shining with all his might, and) reflecting off the mirror over the bar, just in the right place so when I stood up to line up the shot, I could see it perfectly, and all the way down to the shot, but right as I got all the way down on the shot, BLIND!! I got up and down a couple times, double checked that I was lined up on the way down, and went ahead and fired it in. I ended up having to do that twice in the same rack, and made both shots.

So yeah, definitely, closing your eyes on the shot and trusting your stroke, I'm a fan.

Speaking of which, what's your take on whether to keep the line of the shot as you come down to it, or should you line it up and then move to the shot as separate functions of the PSR?

 

[Scott Lee]

walrus_3d...I think it can be done either way. You should always step away from the table to get a good perspective, but most people step into the line of the shot, as they go down...and then confirm their alignment visually, while they are down on the table.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Speaking of which, what's your take on whether to keep the line of the shot as you come down to it, or should you line it up and then move to the shot as separate functions of the PSR?

 

[Aaron_S]

Aaron...That's just your perception. If you twist your wrist on your closed bridge, the thumb will drop down onto the cloth, and it will be just as easy to draw the CB accurately, as with an open bridge. Many people "bind" the cue over their knuckles with a closed bridge, and this creates what you're perceiving. In reality you should be able to strike the CB at maximum low (3 tips) just as easily with an closed bridge as with an open bridge.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Interesting. I will do some experimentation with that. Thanks Scott.

Aaron

 

[JoeyA]

Nice....

lexgideon...There is a great deal of difference between "forcing" the stick through the CB (poke/punch/power), and using the weight of the cue and timing (moving the cue quickly, with a very light grip) to create the stroke. Most people grip too tight and try to draw the CB with a 'snap back' type of action. This is actually detrimental to drawing the CB easily. I'm going to suggest that you are doing one of two things, without realizing it, that is creating your problem. Either you're gripping tighter with the closed hand bridge (but not realizing it), or you're trying to use strength instead of cuespeed and timing. Either will usually result in missing where you're aiming on the CB. There is a significant reduction in action on the CB, missing the maximum low aim point (3 tips low) versus the #2 draw position (2 tips below center)...even with the same speed stroke. I know you said you didn't think either of these things was happening, but I'll bet you're just not noticing it. Use a stripe. like Neil suggested. Place it with the stripe perfectly horizontal on the cloth. Aim the top edge of your tip at the bottom of the stripe (use the 9 or 13, as the blue chalk mark shows very well). Remember, the contact with the CB/tip is only 1/8" or 3mm...it's easy to miss by that much...either too high (not near as much draw) or low (miscue, because the tip hits the table first). Hope this helps.



Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Excellent responses, Scott!

Is this the type of quality instruction that prospective students can expect from you when you head up the EAST COAST, shortly?

 

[JoeyA]

Scott:

Great post. It's important to note that there are different forms of the closed bridge, with some forms more amenable to lowering to the table than others.

One form that fits this "adjustable crane" architecture, is the Willie Hoppe closed bridge, as described in this vintage/nostalgic video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sc4iaJWu8Ak#t=155

The dated/obsolete methods of stroking from the shoulder aside, the info about this particular bridge is sound. I'm not fond of the "flesh moving" thing -- Willie looks like he needs some talc in there or something -- but the idea of folding the middle finger at the second knuckle, so it's tucked under the hand to offer a "jacking mechanism" for the hand really works. At its lowest point -- i.e. the middle finger fully folded under -- the entire palm and whole side of the thumb are actually resting upon the table surface. You can't get any lower than that -- even with an open bridge!

-Sean

I've always had a problem with the fleshy part of my bridge's index finger. I used to use a lot of Johnson's Baby Powder because of the friction caused by the fleshy part of my index finger. It's probably one of the main reasons I use a glove. I've never utilized the middle finger tuck on the pool table but I like it and will give it a try.

 

[lexgideon]

lexgideon...There is a great deal of difference between "forcing" the stick through the CB (poke/punch/power), and using the weight of the cue and timing (moving the cue quickly, with a very light grip) to create the stroke. Most people grip too tight and try to draw the CB with a 'snap back' type of action. This is actually detrimental to drawing the CB easily. I'm going to suggest that you are doing one of two things, without realizing it, that is creating your problem. Either you're gripping tighter with the closed hand bridge (but not realizing it), or you're trying to use strength instead of cuespeed and timing. Either will usually result in missing where you're aiming on the CB. There is a significant reduction in action on the CB, missing the maximum low aim point (3 tips low) versus the #2 draw position (2 tips below center)...even with the same speed stroke. I know you said you didn't think either of these things was happening, but I'll bet you're just not noticing it. Use a stripe. like Neil suggested. Place it with the stripe perfectly horizontal on the cloth. Aim the top edge of your tip at the bottom of the stripe (use the 9 or 13, as the blue chalk mark shows very well). Remember, the contact with the CB/tip is only 1/8" or 3mm...it's easy to miss by that much...either too high (not near as much draw) or low (miscue, because the tip hits the table first). Hope this helps.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

great advices, I think what I've done in the past is as u said" forcing " the cue ball, I practiced a little more yesterday and it gets a lot better. ty

 

[dr_dave]

lexgideon...There is a great deal of difference between "forcing" the stick through the CB (poke/punch/power), and using the weight of the cue and timing (moving the cue quickly, with a very light grip) to create the stroke. Most people grip too tight and try to draw the CB with a 'snap back' type of action. This is actually detrimental to drawing the CB easily. I'm going to suggest that you are doing one of two things, without realizing it, that is creating your problem. Either you're gripping tighter with the closed hand bridge (but not realizing it), or you're trying to use strength instead of cuespeed and timing. Either will usually result in missing where you're aiming on the CB. There is a significant reduction in action on the CB, missing the maximum low aim point (3 tips low) versus the #2 draw position (2 tips below center)...even with the same speed stroke. I know you said you didn't think either of these things was happening, but I'll bet you're just not noticing it. Use a stripe. like Neil suggested. Place it with the stripe perfectly horizontal on the cloth. Aim the top edge of your tip at the bottom of the stripe (use the 9 or 13, as the blue chalk mark shows very well). Remember, the contact with the CB/tip is only 1/8" or 3mm...it's easy to miss by that much...either too high (not near as much draw) or low (miscue, because the tip hits the table first). Hope this helps.

great advices, I think what I've done in the past is as u said" forcing " the cue ball, I practiced a little more yesterday and it gets a lot better. ty

Scott's advice is excellent. If you would like more advice, along with video demonstrations, check out my draw technique resource page.

Enjoy, and good luck,
Dave