Who are we as cue makers, really?

For me there's nothing worse than working on a cue that I don't believe in..trying to please.
I just finished one that I hated going into the shop anytime I had to work on it. To make matters worse it was for somebody from the local pool hall whom I see a few times a week. It took the pleaSURE OUT OF PLAYING BECAUSE ALL HE DID WAS ASK HOW THE CUE WAS COMING ALONG. Five months of pure misery...hated to go play and hated to go in the shop...never again. Only got about two thirds of the price since it was somebody I knew well. YUk. Oh and the cue was three times the work.

I won't build cues and then find buyers(I hate selling, specially to certain pool players) I'll take orders that fall within my beliefs. :) I'm in a position that I can afford to, cuemaking is therapy and a way of expressing my creativity.

Mario
 
Qbilder,

I think your in the point in your craft where you have developed a following of players and collectors where you can just make any cue you want to build which makes you happy and sell it for whatever reasonable amount you want.

To give you an example, say you build a plain jain wrapless cue with cocobolo front and birdseye maple handle and cocobolo butt, Phenolic Joint, 3/8 x 10 pin around 19 oz and sell it like for 300 USD, You can demand that price !!!, You can do it !!! No pressure on your part :grin: Everybody is happy :grin-square:

PM ME YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT WHEN YOUR DONE :thumbup:
 
I got into building cues because of my love for the game, and I was thirsty for knowlege. I had been doing minor repair work and tips, then I got a Hightower lathe, and discovered I could build cues with it - with the right tools and knowlege.
People at work ask me when I am going to quit, and build cues full-time.
I say never. For me it's a hobby. As soon as it becomes a "have to or don't eat situation, I'll lose my love for it.
JMHO:D
 
From the perspective of a customer:

You guys are artists. Don't forget that. Nobody told Monet or Renoir how they had to do their painting. How successful would they have been if they worked that way?

You guys are craftsmen. Don't forget that. I worked on a house for "Extreme Makeover, Home Edition". A month later, there was a huge list of repairs that had to be made, because care was exchanged for expediency. They all have had the same problems. If you don't make enough per hour building the cue, it's sure not going to improve the situation if you have to do it over.

You guys are magicians. Don't forget that. I like the way your cue feels and hits. It is magic in my hands. That is the reason I came to you. If I am stupid enough to try and get you to change your construction, don't you be stupid and listen to me.

I do gunsmithing. I tune and repair guns of the old West for competition. When someone comes to me, they know how I will do their work, based on my reputation. If they want the work done differently, I refer them to the person who can help them, because there is a reason I do things the way I do. I do not lose sleep over it. I have all the business I want, because I am consistent. If I am caught up on work, I do their work immediately, and do not put it off. If I am behind, or have a problem, I let them know how long it will be, or call and update them if there is a problem. My business is no different than your business. You can't please everyone, and you won't please anyone, if you don't stay true to yourself, and your concept of what you are trying to do.
 
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As a customer, please let me throw this out there:

Right now, the general expectation is basically that we customers tell you cuemakers how we want a cue built, but this is wrong. We(some of us like me) with good intentions try to tell, demand, request every little detail. There are things leading us that way, but I wonder if I(and the cuemaker) would be more happy, if the deal was. . .here is $####. Please make me a 4 point cue with a Kamui Med tip. I like Cocobolo wood and leather wraps. Done.

Then, in a year, it is done. If I the buyer doesn't like it, maybe he and the cuemaker can work out a deal where the cuemaker sells it as an extra and makes a second attempt or refunds 75%.

Worst thing that can happen is someone sells in on AZ or Ebay for 75% of planned value. Most likely, buyers would be thrilled at the lower stress and outstanding cues made.

So, Qbuilder, I think you should think long and hard about what bothers you in some past deals and modify your ordering process to match how you want to build cues.
 
qbilder said:
Who are you as a cue maker? Have you come to terms with your limitations vs. strengths? Do you feel pressured to please folks & if so for what reasons? Where are you going with cues & what steps are you taking to get there? No need to answer on here, just a few questions I asked myself & it kinda put things into perspective. I wonder if any other builders contemplate these things.
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Of course we feel pressured to please people. There are few things more satisfying than seeing a customer's smile as he holds his new cue for the first time. Or the glowing email or phone call in which the customer can barely contain himself. It's the ultimate pat on the back that justifies our commitment to building a quality product.

And it's simply human nature.

However, I think we all bump against this wall, usually when we go outside our comfort zone and particularly when we realize we've reached our current limitations. Some choose to back off & stay with what is tried and proven. Some forge ahead & try to expand the limits of that zone. That requires time and thought, experimentation, testing and, yes, failure. Some have the time and inclination and some don't.

There's nothing wrong with either choice. And every cuemaker will be presented with that choice quite often. I mean, doesn't every customer want his cue to be different? That means we bump the wall yet again because deep down, we DO want to expand our horizons.

That's human nature, too.

and on a side note: What I DON'T understand is a cuemaker's impatience & disdain for his customer's interest in the progress of his cue. Anticipation...there's that pesky human nature again.

I try to update a customer whenever some progress is made on his cue. A simple "took another rough cut on your forearm" email takes 15 seconds and lets your customer know you haven't forgotten about him. And that brief, almost insignificant expression on your part will go a long way towards keeping your customer satisfied.

Life is good when your customers are satisfied.
 
dzcues said:
and on a side note: What I DON'T understand is a cuemaker's impatience & disdain for his customer's interest in the progress of his cue. Anticipation...there's that pesky human nature again.

I try to update a customer whenever some progress is made on his cue. A simple "took another rough cut on your forearm" email takes 15 seconds and lets your customer know you haven't forgotten about him. And that brief, almost insignificant expression on your part will go a long way towards keeping your customer satisfied.

Life is good when your customers are satisfied.
Click to expand...

The perfect approach. I bet you eliminate 98%, if not all, complaints on your delivery times.
 
For me, it's not the custom work that is "challenging" or something I have a tough time doing. The work is the same for me no matter what i'm doing. The discomfort for me is a little more complex.

First of all, I have discomfort in not knowing what the cue will hit & feel like, and it's going to have my name on it. If I take a cue so customized that it's out of the realm of my own formula then it's going to be nothing like a Sugartree. Everybody who sees & plays with that cue is going to get a false representation of who & what I am as a cue maker. Then they jump on the online forums to tell everybody how unimpressed they were with the cue of mine they hit with. Next thing you know there's a cue with my name on that is nothing like what it should be, being sold every other week in the for sale section. Everybody that gets it or hits with it hates it. And yes, it's happened ... more than once. That bothers me.

Second is myself. I don't know about any other builders but when i'm in the shop, i'm in the "zone". I'm working in dead stroke. I know what has to be done & I do it as if i'm tying my shoes. This leads to issues with the custom orders because even though I have notes & design specs listed on a clipboard hanging in the shop, I miss as lot of the custom details. That wastes the buyers time & money, and is a huge PIA for me. I feel like a retard & the buyer is frustrated wondering if I even really care about his/her cue. That bothers me.

Point being, it came to the point where I acknowledge my limitations. It's nothing to do with capability, but everything to do with conflict of interest. I simply cannot any longer do things that I don't agree with, just to make the buyer happy. I have done it forever & at least 75% of the time it bites me in the ass somehow. If I get it right the buyer is happy but everybody who sees his cue or buys it when he's tired of it, hates it & makes up their minds that all of my cues are just like that. If I mess it up then the buyers not happy & it turns in to a load more work with him telling everybody I screwed up his cue. Easy fix is to simply quit doing it. If you want a Sugartree you get a Sugartree. If you want something else then order it from someone else. That's the nuts & bolts of what i'm saying.
 
qbilder said:
For me, it's not the custom work that is "challenging" or something I have a tough time doing. The work is the same for me no matter what i'm doing. The discomfort for me is a little more complex.

First of all, I have discomfort in not knowing what the cue will hit & feel like, and it's going to have my name on it. If I take a cue so customized that it's out of the realm of my own formula then it's going to be nothing like a Sugartree. Everybody who sees & plays with that cue is going to get a false representation of who & what I am as a cue maker. Then they jump on the online forums to tell everybody how unimpressed they were with the cue of mine they hit with. Next thing you know there's a cue with my name on that is nothing like what it should be, being sold every other week in the for sale section. Everybody that gets it or hits with it hates it. And yes, it's happened ... more than once. That bothers me.

Second is myself. I don't know about any other builders but when i'm in the shop, i'm in the "zone". I'm working in dead stroke. I know what has to be done & I do it as if i'm tying my shoes. This leads to issues with the custom orders because even though I have notes & design specs listed on a clipboard hanging in the shop, I miss as lot of the custom details. That wastes the buyers time & money, and is a huge PIA for me. I feel like a retard & the buyer is frustrated wondering if I even really care about his/her cue. That bothers me.

Point being, it came to the point where I acknowledge my limitations. It's nothing to do with capability, but everything to do with conflict of interest. I simply cannot any longer do things that I don't agree with, just to make the buyer happy. I have done it forever & at least 75% of the time it bites me in the ass somehow. If I get it right the buyer is happy but everybody who sees his cue or buys it when he's tired of it, hates it & makes up their minds that all of my cues are just like that. If I mess it up then the buyers not happy & it turns in to a load more work with him telling everybody I screwed up his cue. Easy fix is to simply quit doing it. If you want a Sugartree you get a Sugartree. If you want something else then order it from someone else. That's the nuts & bolts of what i'm saying.
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Can I order a cue with a burl wood handle ?
Just kidding. :D
 
I love buying cues that the makers have made for themselves.

Some idea they had that expanded their horizons.

I don't care if it's perfect, only that the cue-maker's heart was in it.

My favorite cues are not perfect, but they were built with love. That's all that matters to me.

Eric, do what you want. You've earned it.

If I ever order a cue from you, it'll go like this: "build me something you'd love within my budget."
 
There's great satisfaction in taking someone's ideas and making them work, it generates creativity. I get into trouble because I will add whatever it takes so the cue makes sense and perform. Can't help myself .

The so called problem cue I mentioned before ended beyond the owners expectations, he couldn't be happier. I struggled with it, my problem.

I should have known that making something for this particular nice individual was going to be an experience because of the way he is. Great guy but relentless.

Mario
 
dzcues said:
Of course we feel pressured to please people. There are few things more satisfying than seeing a customer's smile as he holds his new cue for the first time. Or the glowing email or phone call in which the customer can barely contain himself. It's the ultimate pat on the back that justifies our commitment to building a quality product.

And it's simply human nature.

However, I think we all bump against this wall, usually when we go outside our comfort zone and particularly when we realize we've reached our current limitations. Some choose to back off & stay with what is tried and proven. Some forge ahead & try to expand the limits of that zone. That requires time and thought, experimentation, testing and, yes, failure. Some have the time and inclination and some don't.

There's nothing wrong with either choice. And every cuemaker will be presented with that choice quite often. I mean, doesn't every customer want his cue to be different? That means we bump the wall yet again because deep down, we DO want to expand our horizons.

That's human nature, too.

and on a side note: What I DON'T understand is a cuemaker's impatience & disdain for his customer's interest in the progress of his cue. Anticipation...there's that pesky human nature again.

I try to update a customer whenever some progress is made on his cue. A simple "took another rough cut on your forearm" email takes 15 seconds and lets your customer know you haven't forgotten about him. And that brief, almost insignificant expression on your part will go a long way towards keeping your customer satisfied.

Life is good when your customers are satisfied.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your post Bob - Spoken like the Professional you are :) Greenies to you
 
Most of the time we do things not because we are happy, we do things because we thought we would be happy.

Cheer up buddy. You're the only one who gets to choose who you really are and what you really want to do.

qbilder said:
I recently screwed up a completely custom cue order. I had notes & such with his specifics but still missed a lot of them. I wasn't purposely being negligent but just my absent minded self. I essentially wasted years of both of our lives with this cue build when I should never have accepted the order in the first place because it was so far out of the spec of my own formula. And I should have explained it to him when we were discussing the details of the build. Then he could have accepted my formula or else moved along to a builder who is good with custom specs. Instead I took the build on with every intention of nailing it right on the way he wanted. I didn't need the money. In fact I gave it to him at about half rate. I like the guy & wanted to make him happy, as well as have fun doing what I do, which is building cues.

Anyway, I learned a valuable lesson about myself. This situation made me sit back & evaluate myself, my buyer base, and our industry as a whole. I realized that from the very beginning I always felt pressure to please people. They expect us builders to be almost god like sometimes, and it's totally understandable considering the money they pay for cues. Cues are very expensive novelty items. The buyers rarely consider that we are grossly underpaid, only that they are paying a lot of cash for a pool cue. We, or at least I, often feel a little guilty charging fairly because it is a lot of money. I often under charge because of it. I'm very blessed & lucky that I don't need to make money from building cues. Rather, I can afford to build cues. I admire but don't envy the guys scraping out a living with cues. Heaven forbid something go wrong with a buyer. They think they have our balls with these forums & can put a lot of pressure on us. Luckily my buyer is a gentleman but I know one builder who recently had to deal with a buyer who had that mentality. Building cues is a tough gig, even for hobbyists.

I am at a point where I either quit building cues or come to terms with who I am as a cuemaker. I have always expressed myself as carefree but in actuality I always try hard to make folks happy. I can't please everybody. And i'm not going to try. I will build what I want, when I want, for whom I want. Don't ask me for specs that are outside of my formula & I won't make promises I can't keep. I like my cues, not yours. So don't ask me to build your cue. I'm not being an ass. I'm being honest. When i'm comfortable & happy I do my best work. When i'm trying to please & meet demands I screw things up, which sucks for everybody. It is what it is & it's who I am. So i'm just going with it. It's who I am.

Who are you as a cue maker? Have you come to terms with your limitations vs. strengths? Do you feel pressured to please folks & if so for what reasons? Where are you going with cues & what steps are you taking to get there? No need to answer on here, just a few questions I asked myself & it kinda put things into perspective. Sorry for the lengthy post. I was just sharing thoughts & experiences. I wonder if any other builders contemplate these things.
Click to expand...
 
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