Who is hurt most by small pockets?

whitewolf said:
I am a big Luther Lassiter fan myself. He was awesome. But tell me, did you ever see Kid Cole play?

No, but as a youth, I watched Lassiter many times. Cole Dixon's reputaton as a brilliant pocketer is well known to me. Lassiter pocketed even better than Fong Pang Chao, the best pocketer I've seen since.

Perhaps Dixon vs Lassiter is like choosing beteeen two Rolls Royces. You can't go wrong whatevcer choice you make.
 
I never saw Lassiter or Cole Dixon shoot but I just finished watching Tony Drago loose to Alex P in the WPC and must say I cannot see anyone being any more accurate a potter then that guy. The rest of his game is terrible, his shape play, his kicking, his patterns, but his accuracy in potting balls is phenomenal, better then Chao IMO, Chao just creams him in every other aspect of the game to more then make up the difference in being the better complete player. As a pure potting machine though, Drago.
 
Flex said:
The larger pockets favor the better player, if there is no spot, because he'll be able to do things with the cue ball that tigher pockets wouldn't accomodate. That being sad, larger pockets will swallow the 9 ball more easily.

However, in my experience, the better players prefer tight pocketed tables for the high stakes matches... I'm sure they want to minimize their chances of being defeated by a lucky roll...


Flex

I think there are two ways to look at the situation.

1) Tighter pockets might allow a weaker player more chances at the table. I dont consider this a bad thing. If the better player played a poor shot, he shouldn't be rewarded with a ball falling because of a loose pocket. Also, there's no guarantee that the player comming up will be able to run the table once he's up there. So the good thing that results from this is that if a player plays a bad shot, he'll be punished accordingly. After all, it's not whether or not you're the better player, its how well you play that match that wins you the match.

2) Tighter pockets will make it harder to run the table and continue runs. This definately hurts the weaker player. Let's take 2 players. Player A routinely splits the pocket on every shot and have about 1 out of 10 shots that actually contact the 2 pocket rails before finally falling in or missing (sloppy shot). Player B is not so accurate, and about 25% of his shots are sloppy. Player A and B has about the same skills at everything else, etc.

Player A would be, on average, be able to run out much more often on a tight pocket because, on average, his shots would be going in even with tight pockets. So 10% of Player A's sloppy shots would have a chance of missing.

Most of player Bs shots would still go in, but because 25% of his shots are sloppy, he will make more mistakes on average. With larger pockets, more of his sloppy shots would go in and he would, on average, be able to get away with more of his sloppy shots.

So if you think about the long run average, Player A, whose a more accuate shot maker, would average a higher ball pocketing ratio, which leads to longer runs. Player B, whose more prone to making mistakes, would average shorter runs in general. This doesn't mean player B has no chance of winning, it means player B has, on average, less chance of winning. If he is in stroke and his pocketing ability increases for the match, he could very well win. All these comparisons are made assuming player A and B are only different by their pocketing abilities. Other factors come into play, position play, safety play, break, and luck.
 
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OldHasBeen said:
THIS IS SO SIMPLE - I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY PLAYERS CAN'T SEE IT!
I have been saying for years - Tight pockets are bad for the best players.
It stands to reason that the better of any two players, is going to be at the table more often than the weeker player.
So who is the bigger pockets going to benifit the most?

TY & GL

You are exactly right. A loose table will help the weaker player a little but for the top player it raises their game a lot. I see guys matching up with weak players giving weight and wanting to steer them to a tough table. This is wrong, get on a loose table and you can steem roll right over the guy. have you found this to be the case, I have. I love a sloppy table giving weight to weak players, they can have almost what ever they want. It's lamb killing at it's best.
 
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macguy said:
You are exactly right. A loose table will help the weaker player a little but for the top player it raises their game a lot. I see guys matching up with weak players giving weight and wanting to steer them to a tough table. This is wrong, get on a loose table and you can steem roll right over the guy. have you found this to be the case, I have. I love a sloppy table giving weight to weak players, they can have almost what ever they want. It's lamb killing at it's best.

I think you guys might be thinking about a situation where it is a very good player playing against someone who can't run racks consistently. Then in that case, a loose pocket would benefit the good player because he can just run rack after rack without havin to worry about the opponent running out even if he misses. I think the situation is a bit different, such as the WPC, if both players are good enough players that a normal run out is almost routine.
 
SplicedPoints said:
I think you guys might be thinking about a situation where it is a very good player playing against someone who can't run racks consistently. Then in that case, a loose pocket would benefit the good player because he can just run rack after rack without havin to worry about the opponent running out even if he misses. I think the situation is a bit different, such as the WPC, if both players are good enough players that a normal run out is almost routine.

If you are talking about two very good players then the tough table will define the players and show who is best. Top players on easy tables makes for bad pool, it is just becomes a war of running out.
 
whitewolf said:
mjanttu said:
Originally Posted by mjantti
... So, once again. No sloppy pockets this year ! Grrreat !! I'm dying to see how they'll effect some of the players IMHO, there are a few players who shouldn't be bothered at all such as Immonen, Strickland, Chao, Efren etc. who are accustomed to split the wicket.
QUOTE]

Strickland looks at the cueball last and he simply DOES NOT split the pockets. Neither does Keith McCready for the same reason. BTW, Keith didn't bother to answer my question about looking at the cueball last, so be it. He they both play great for other reasons. I think they would both be hurt by the tight pockets. Scott Lee does probably has one of the best strokes of the players today, but he also looks at the cueball last. Neither does he split the pocket. He more or less avoids the subject by saying it doesn't matter.

Efren does not split the pockets either.....simply because he plays a lot of English. But he plays great also. I personally think Efren would be hurt by he tight pockets, but the other players, no matter who they are, would be hurt also and Efren would reign.

The most accurate pool player ever was Kid Cole Dixon. A poster said he saw Kid play Ronnie Allen some 9 ball on a snooker table and it was no contest. This I can believe.

Hilarious post!!! WW this was a joke right? Efren and Earl split the pockets when they want to. Do you have any proof that Earl looks at the cueball last?
 
OldHasBeen said:
THIS IS SO SIMPLE - I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY PLAYERS CAN'T SEE IT!
I have been saying for years - Tight pockets are bad for the best players.
It stands to reason that the better of any two players, is going to be at the table more often than the weeker player.
So who is the bigger pockets going to benifit the most?

TY & GL

Maybe it's because you've been hustling weak players your whole life you can't see it. Did you know that even among professional players, that some professionals play better than others? Did you know that what most professional players have in common, stronger or weaker, is that they can all run out? A run out is a run out, all the pros can do it. I also wanted to make sure that you know that when a weaker pro is running out, that there is nothing Efren or anyone else can do to stop them, since you take turns at the table. So if you have big pockets that cater to weaker pocketing skills, a weaker player who can already run racks is going to run RACKS & RACKS & RACKS. Yeah sure, players like Efren are going to play alot better too, but Efren even getting to the table can be dependent on the flip of a coin or the opening lag. The point that me and other people are trying to make, is that big pockets level the playing field too much. None of the top pros have weak pocketing skills. If you put them on a tighter equipment they will be splitting the pockets when they want to. I think you guys need some more exposure to Efren, Earl, Johnny, etc. I've seen Efren play on 4 1/4 pockets, he was running racks of rotation, and 10-12 and outs in one-pocket like nothing.
 
LowEnglish said:
Hilarious post!!! WW this was a joke right? Efren and Earl split the pockets when they want to. Do you have any proof that Earl looks at the cueball last?

Do any of the pros look at the cue ball last? I don't know, but my guess is at the point of cue ball contact they are looking at the object ball.
 
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