Hello Az, I have been accused by some people on this forum of down grading the ability of the Asian Community when it comes to the Craftsmanship needed to Build Billiards related items. While I have made many posts concerning imported items, I do not think I have presented my true feelings clearly concerning this issue. In this thread I will attempt to show my thoughts on this subject, and hopefully there will be no doubt what my intentions concerning the quality of these items are and who is to blame.[
All of my answers below are based on my personal experience in the billiard industry, including my current job as quality control and product development person for Sterling Gaming based in Xiamen China. I have been here for three years.
I don't know about other people but you have been accused by me of downgrading the quality of the cues using statements that are untrue and then turning around and stating that other cues are of better quality just because they have a written warranty, which is also untrue. I never once accused YOU of being bigoted towards Asian people. In fact you made another erroneous assumption that the Chinese are capable of doing anything that anyone else in the world can do and I corrected you there as well. In some areas they are and in others they are not, yet.
In my opinion the quality of the imports has little to do with where they are made or even who is making them. The quality is solely based upon the Company who is having the Cues made. These companies can have cues made in any level of quality they choose to, this is where warranties and the quality of materials used come into play. For instance, a US based company decides to have a product line produced, and they give the guidelines concerning designs and the construction to the manufacturer who is only responsible for production.
There are three ways that this is done. One way is that the buyer says I want to buy cues at $20 a cue show me what you have. And the factory shows them their $20 cues and then they begin to negotiate as the buyer says things how much if I want a "better" ferrule.........
The other way is that the buyer sends an order with a spec sheet that might look something like, "A-grade shaft wood, Juma ferrule, threaded parts, leather wrap, cored ebony, laminated handle, piloted Radial pin, Stainless Steel joint, 13mm Tiger Sniper Tip......"
The third way is that the buyer shows up and the cue maker presents a new line of cues and says these are the prices which ones do you want? At which time the buyer may decide to take them as presented or make changes to the appearance and/or materials used.
Taking this into consideration who is actually responsible for products that fall short where materials, construction, and craftsmanship are concerned. This also explains why some companies will offer a warranty to the consumer and others do not. Warranties are not free, and companies choosing to offer a warranty will have an additional cost built into the products that they are importing.
The responsibility for the product lies with the importer because the factory is not promoting it's own brand. Therefore the importer is the defacto producer of the goods and must accept all repsonsibility for the quality of the product.
With or without a written warranty any company can only survive based on it's reputation for good products and good service that includes standing behind the products they sell. Warranties on cues are a new thing that has come into fashion in the last five years. All of the major brands and factories in the billiard industry have been in business for 20-30 years prior to warranties showing up and they did good business for all that time with satisfied customers.
A warranty adds zero additional cost if you are already servicing your customer's needs. If you know for example that your return rate for warpage is 1% and you already replace those cues then putting out a "warranty" against warpage does not increase your cost at all. What a warranty does do however is to entice a customer to trust you over a brand that does not offer a written warranty.
Part of the problem is that you make the assumption that cues with a warranty are automatically of better quality than those without one. In fact Craig, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there are cues on the market that come off the same line, which are made the same way, and have different brand names where one has a warranty and the other does not. I cannot of course name those brands due to my confidentiality agreements.
So, it appears clear that quality of imports are solely based upon the amount they sell for, and the amount of profit that each company concerned wants to make wholesaling imports in America.
The profit per item doesn't really change based on price. If you want to average out the quality of imported cues based on price then you could say that of course the average quality is lower. If you start to get into the higher priced cues then I submit that the average quality is very good in comparison and in my opinion as good as most American mass production brands.
Basically the cost of the cues are the same across the board for all importers, more or less. If we accept that having a written warranty does cost more then all it means is that the importer is willing to accept a slightly smaller profit in the hopes that the warranty will bring in more sales. This does not mean that his cues are any better or worse than his competition's. However he loves it if the dealers and customers make that assumption as it means that the marketing purpose of offering a written warranty has worked.
It has also been stated that warranties really have no bearing upon the quality of cues imported, now how can this be case. If a warranty is offered to the consumer, wouldn't it also make sense that the wholesaler is offered a warranty of some sort from the manufacturer?
That is an assumption. The reality is that you don't know what sort of deal is made. Many importers warranty the products they sell with no such cushion from the manufacturer. As I explained above warranties are nothing more than calculated risks. An importer can look at their data and know what the rate of returns are for certain things and then decide if replacing those things is at a level low enough to warrant against them.
Even if the manufacturer did provide a warranty to the dealer then that still doesn't mean that the cues are of any better quality.
What if the manufacturer says to buyer A who wants a warranty on the cues he buys, that he must pay $25 a cue and to buyer B who doesn't insist on a warranty that he must pay $20 a cue. But both cues are identical? Now importer A can charge $50 more for the cue with a warranty in the USA and Importer B can charge $50 less.
Now if this is the case how can either make a profit if the product concerned is not superior to similar products being made and imported. Now, I am certain some will say that these so called warranties are not really what they appear to be and that many of the companies offering them have loop holes to get around them.
Making a profit is determined by each importer themselves. Some with low overhead like J&J will elect to not spend any money on marketing or sponsoring pool and they will be able to sell at lower prices and make the profit that they want. Others such as the company I work for Sterling Gaming will spend a lot of money on marketing and supporting pool and therefore will have more overhead and will charge more. Now ask yourself on the items which are very close in price which company is making more and giving less? But that's another topic.
The point is that if a company offers a warranty then it serves to help them sell more and by increasing their volume of sales they can get by with lower profits.
No one said that warranties are not what they appear to be. All the ones I have seen are exactly what they appear to be, warranties against certain things with a big disclaimer that the company offering the warranty can decide at their discretion to NOT honor the warranty IF they feel the problem is the subject of misuse or abuse. As I said in the other thread I am sure that these companies honor 99% of the warranty claims that come in because they are inside the acceptable percentage that the company already calculated and because it's just good business to honor your warranties and support your dealers.
However that does not mean that other companies which do not (yet) use the warranty marketing tool do not stand behind their cues and dealers equally well.
I predict that soon you will see everyone using warranties and then what you think?
I have not had this problem personally so I wish that those who make these claims would post which companies are doing this. In addition I would also like to know if these experiences were second hand or if they happened to them personally, and if they did please explain what happened.
No one in any thread you refer to has made the claim that any companies in the billiard industry are not honoring their warranties. All anyone has said, which is there in black and white, is that the warranties that were used as examples have clauses in them which allow for the company to deny any warranty claim if they feel that the defect was caused by the consumer.
However if anyone does have stories of the importer not backing up their "warranteed" products then they should share them. In fact share all of your stories good or bad on how you were treated on any product as that will only serve to help those who are looking for a new cue in the future.
I would like anyones thoughts on this subject, above are only my opinions.
Thanks in advance for your input.[/QUOTE]
