Who is responsible....

As a side note: Anyone complaining about the cost of a custom cue should really go check out what a custom acoustic guitar costs! That'll bring it all back into perspective for ya!!
Remember, ya'll are dealing with customs here. Most of these cuemakers put their heart and soul into a cue they are building. And a LOT of extra time and effort to make their cues the nicest cues they can make. It is precisely because of this 'pride in craftsmanship' that they become so highly desired....desire creates demand....demand drives down supply....limited supply + high demand = higher prices.

Lisa
 
lisa's comments-

WE, as the consumer, are responsible for the pricing and/or values that cues currently command.

so it would have nothing to do with the cost of materials and labor involved with making the cue? or the price the cue maker asks for the cue? or if the cue maker has a waiting list? or if a cue maker doesnt take orders? or if you can rarely find one of his cues for sale?

And if a particular cuemaker can demand higher prices than others, WE, as the consumer, are responsible for that too

so it would have nothing to do with the quality of workmanship? and nothing to do with the way the cue plays?

The dealers/brokers are not solely responsible for higher prices

you already said they had NO resposibility! why would you need to comment they are not SOLEY responsible?:confused:

The dealer/broker is the one taking the initial financial risk on any particular cue

i would think the cue maker that took the time to learn the art of cue making and bought all the equipment to make cues and used his time and materials to build the cue would be the one taking the initial financial risk? not to mention a lot of cues sales do not even go through a dealer/broker:confused:

It is because of that 'need to have it now' that prices are what they are for any particular cuemaker

very general point that could be made of almost anything

I am not discounting the artificial driving up of prices that takes place when you have certain collectors hoarding certain makers' cues

why is it artificial if a collector buys a cue? please name examples of collectors artificially driving up the price and hoarding certain cue makers (other than luck/szam which i dont believe to be artificial)

WE, as the consumer are responsible for the prices/values of cues today

there are many variables of which the consumer is just one.

Anyone complaining about the cost of a custom cue should really go check out what a custom acoustic guitar costs! That'll bring it all back into perspective for ya!!

you state this but do not explain in what way
 
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cuedoctor said:
It was just a joke,but I wouldnt even pay 399 if they were available now.
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Me either I only did it cause I new I could sell them on ebay. I dont even like playing video games I get bored with them too quick!
 
cuedoctor said:
The answer is C for sure!!

charlie, you ignorant slut! :)

If someone who has deeper pockets wants something bad enough and they dont have a clue as to what its worth they dont care if they pay say 50% more for a cue,its chump change to them.

yeah, i've always noticed that people with a lot of money got that way by not having a clue a wasting a lot of it! what a bunch of dumbasses!

They dont live in the real world and they dont worry about what its worth when they want to unload it either.
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what world do they live in?
 
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SCCues said:
C is my answer for why cue prices have climbed to where they are today. Cue maker waiting lists have also added to the reason people pay the higher prices since for example it takes about 7 years to get a new South West cue so when people see a new one for sale they jump at the chance to pay a higher price than it cost from the cue maker to get it now and not wait. I know people who aren't dealers who get on cue maker's waiting lists just to eventually get a cue and sell it for a profit and take advantage of the long waiting list which keeps supply down. There's nothing wrong with making a profit selling a cue, but this keeps driving prices up on certain cue makers cues.
SCCues
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you seem indecisive! you say c is your answer and then in the very next sentence you say a is partially responsible. then you bring up speculators as well.
then you say someone purchasing a cue on speculation to resell for a profit makes supply go down?
lastly you say that making a profit on a cue makes prices go up on certain cue makers? :confused:
 
iconcue said:
what world do they live in?
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ANYBODY WHO PAYED LIKE 18000 FOR THE ATHENA CUE FROM DICK ABBOTT HAS TO BE THE MOST IGNORANT MF'ER ON EARTH (THATS YOU DUM ASS).
 
i have to make one point myself!

i find it wrong when people say it is OK for a broker / dealer to charge what the going market rate is for a cue if they don't extend the same priviledge to the maker of the cue!

take pool table magic classic cues new barry szamboti listing as an example.

if mark pays $2500 for the cue to barry szamboti what do you think barry's profit would be? once costs to make the cue (time, materials, and overhead) are taken into consideration i doubt he even clears $500.

but there are people arguing it is just fine that when mark gets the cue and puts it on the web site he can charge the market price.

in this case mark listed the cue at $6850. say mark feels generous and thru negotiations with a customer knocks $1000 off the price (ha ha he he) and sells the cue.

this would mean the mark made a profit before expenses of $3350. the only expense mark needs to sell the cue if even that is a web site. my web site cost me $35 a month.

so in a sense you are saying it's just fine for a broker to make $3350 off a cue when the maker only made $500. i totally disagree with this line of thought!

but put yourself in the cue makers position.

if they raise their prices to any where near market levels so THEY can be the ones to profit off THIER hard work and expertise and their investment in equipment and learning the craft, then they would be labeled price gougers.

does anyone really think it's fair that mark would make $3350 profit on a cue when the maker made $500 profit?
 
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cuedoctor said:
ANYBODY WHO PAYED LIKE 18000 FOR THE ATHENA CUE FROM DICK ABBOTT HAS TO BE THE MOST IGNORANT MF'ER ON EARTH (THATS YOU DUM ASS).
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this is not true at all! i have met at least 2 or 3 people that are much more ignorant than i am :)
 
iconcue said:
this is not true at all! i have met at least 2 or 3 people that are much more ignorant than i am :)
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If you ever meet me that will increase by one!!::p
 
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Jef,

Of course a cuemaker's time and investment, as well as materials used, have a bearing on the cuemaker's pricepoint. Perhaps I was being too general. Also, reputation has a great deal to do with it as well. These are all mitigating factors when it comes to a cue's pricing. And justly so. As is supply and demand. But if there is supply and little demand, the consumer is going to pay accordingly.

Do you think that Balabushkas, or Gus Szambotis would command the prices that they do today if consumers weren't willing to pay top dollar for them? I realize that with these two cuemakers supply plays a great role...pool wasn't nearly as mainstream as it is today, nor as big business.

Lastly, a custom built acoustic guitar is going to start at roughly 5K for a very plain model...I have seen many in the 10-20K range! And for all the same reasons as with custom cues....reputation and materials...supply and demand. And ultimately, what the consumer is willing to pay.

Lisa
 
iconcue said:
does anyone really think it's fair that mark would make $3350 profit on a cue when the maker made $500 profit?
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What about Real Estate? The value just keeps rising and rising. Each time a home sells, it makes MUCH more profit than the original contractor made.
 
iconcue said:
i have to make one point myself!

i find it wrong when people say it is OK for a broker / dealer to charge what the going market rate is for a cue if they don't extend the same priviledge to the maker of the cue!

take pool table magic classic cues new barry szamboti listing as an example.

if mark pays $2500 for the cue to barry szamboti what do you think barry's profit would be? once costs to make the cue (time, materials, and overhead) are taken into consideration i doubt he even clears $500.

but there are people arguing it is just fine that when mark gets the cue and puts it on the web site he can charge the market price.

in this case mark listed the cue at $6850. say mark feels generous and thru negotiations with a customer knocks $1000 off the price (ha ha he he) and sells the cue.

this would mean the mark made a profit before expenses of $3350. the only expense mark needs to sell the cue if even that is a web site. my web site cost me $35 a month.

so in a sense you are saying it's just fine for a broker to make $3350 off a cue when the maker only made $500. i totally disagree with this line of thought!

but put yourself in the cue makers position.

if they raise their prices to any where near market levels so THEY can be the ones to profit off THIER hard work and expertise and their investment in equipment and learning the craft, then they would be labeled price gougers.

does anyone really think it's fair that mark would make $3350 profit on a cue when the maker made $500 profit?
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Jeff,
This is all fine. But every cue has different circumstances behind it. This particular cue - A: Mark waited a long time for B: was in lieu of a pro-rated payment of sorts. So Mark in a way, has time invested in this cue also.

So whats Marks time worth on the other deal?

Do you have proof all Barry made was 500?

How long do YOU think this cue took to make? How much in material? So if you are going to say Barry made 500, show me the other 2000.

But besides this, this cue isn't a buy and fly. So you need to pick better examples to make an argument.

Joe
 
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classiccues said:
Jeff,
This is all fine. But every cue has different circumstances behind it. This particular cue - A: Mark waited a long time for B: was in lieu of a pro-rated payment of sorts. So Mark in a way, has time invested in this cue also.

So whats Marks time worth on the other deal?

Do you have proof all Barry made was 500?

How long do YOU think this cue took to make? How much in material? So if you are going to say Barry made 500, show me the other 2000.

But besides this, this cue isn't a buy and fly. So you need to pick better examples to make an argument.

Joe
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joe, even if the entire $2500 was profit (which is of course impossible) it would still be a good deal under what mark hopes to profit.
i dont think cue makers would agree for the need of another example although plenty could be supplied.
what percentage of the $2500 do you think is profit? and how does it compare to the potential profit made from the sale by pool table magic?
 
Hal said:
What about Real Estate? The value just keeps rising and rising. Each time a home sells, it makes MUCH more profit than the original contractor made.
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hal, i'm not talking about appreciation. real estate would be an entirely different type of investment that would not make for a good analogy with cues.
 
Joe

You could have added another category. The Flippers. I think they do more to destroy the prices. Beside pool I like watches. There are certain watches that flippers have driven the prices up. They will place their name on every list and have others also place their names on lists. This only makes the list longer and helps drive up the price because of the wait. They will then buy every chance they get and are not interested in using the product except for a profit.
 
iconcue said:
joe, even if the entire $2500 was profit (which is of course impossible) it would still be a good deal under what mark hopes to profit.
i dont think cue makers would agree for the need of another example although plenty could be supplied.
what percentage of the $2500 do you think is profit? and how does it compare to the potential profit made from the sale by pool table magic?
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OK.. but nothing is stopping Barry from charging more. The fact he doesn't raise his prices to meet the secondary market shows what kind of person he is. I couldn't tell you how much is profit, I know nothing ot Barry's material suppliers, or Philadelphia Power Light and Gas to know his overhead. All I could do is speculate. Which I don't like doing. But I did ask you first, since you bought it up and with numbers mind you.

None of this has nothing to do with who is responsible for the secondary market prices on premium cues. The market is what it is. When gold dips, gold jewlery is cheaper. When the buyers for these cues dry up, they will come down. Real estate, classic cars, baseball cards, art, it all works the same.

Joe
 
TheBook said:
Joe

You could have added another category. The Flippers. I think they do more to destroy the prices. Beside pool I like watches. There are certain watches that flippers have driven the prices up. They will place their name on every list and have others also place their names on lists. This only makes the list longer and helps drive up the price because of the wait. They will then buy every chance they get and are not interested in using the product except for a profit.
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Ok but this is how the country works. So I am a little lost in your example. Capitalism is just that.

Joe
 
classiccues said:
OK.. but nothing is stopping Barry from charging more. The fact he doesn't raise his prices to meet the secondary market shows what kind of person he is. I couldn't tell you how much is profit, I know nothing ot Barry's material suppliers, or Philadelphia Power Light and Gas to know his overhead. All I could do is speculate. Which I don't like doing. But I did ask you first, since you bought it up and with numbers mind you.

None of this has nothing to do with who is responsible for the secondary market prices on premium cues. The market is what it is. When gold dips, gold jewlery is cheaper. When the buyers for these cues dry up, they will come down. Real estate, classic cars, baseball cards, art, it all works the same.

Joe
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i didnt say my example was what was responsible for secondary market pricing. i was just using it to show that i think the the wrong party is making the majority of the profit in such a situation.
i also agree barry is a great guy.
what i was pointing out is that if he were to raise his prices to market he would be considered greedy and i don't agree with this way of thinking.
i think barry szamboti should make the lions share of the profit on a cue he makes as opposed to a broker. this could be said of any cue maker whos cues can be immediately turned for a profit.
 
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