Who is this masked man ?

[cheesemouse]

I personally hate to see this forum being used for information on who (and how good) a player is.

"A POOL DETECTIVE" Can ruin many a good poolhall & only deter the progress of pool in general. If your going to knock someone and cost them a chance to win some cash, at least offer to pay their expenses.

To find out how good someone plays - Belly Up and play him!

FOR INFORMATION - DIAL 411

TY & GL

OHB,

I'm not a 'knocker', a 'detective', or an 'outer'. This young man and his back are not out dirtbaggin for chump change. He needs the experience against top players and the action is good. Nobody gets sneaked up on for thousand dollar bills...LOL.....have a nice day

 

[trophycue]

I am certainly not involved (nor will be) in "outing" the road players. I will say that I have no sympathy for players purposely playing well below their speed (though I do enjoy reading about it, thanks again OHB), I don't really think it advances pool very far. In fact, it kind of ruins things for me. Around here, there are WAY too many good players who will insist on playing a few cheap games below top speed before negotiating a real game - a total waste of time as far as I'm concerned. I ask them for their top speed, tell them we'll play even, tell them how much I'll play for and how long - but I always find myself wasting an hour watching them miss balls and shape on purpose for a few pennies. I then have to waste time while they ask me for ridiculous spots (we end up playing even, but they are better players and thats okay with me). There are several good players that won't play me without weight, for decent money, even though they are clearly better than I am - they insist on "the Hungarian cinch" as Fats would call it. I have limited time to spend away from home and work, and these guys are wasting it. JMO

Nicely stated Willie.........nothin wrong with guys puttin up big cash and goin at it.........but these sleazy hustlers that put on a
big act and then try to steal can only be bad for pool in general............A well known up and coming lady player from my home town has cost herself un measurable sponserships because of these tactics.......and people wonder why big business refuses to have there name linked with pool .

 

[vagabond]

I personally hate to see this forum being used for information on who (and how good) a player is.

"A POOL DETECTIVE" Can ruin many a good poolhall & only deter the progress of pool in general. If your going to knock someone and cost them a chance to win some cash, at least offer to pay their expenses.

To find out how good someone plays - Belly Up and play him!

FOR INFORMATION - DIAL 411

TY & GL

Hi oldtimer,
Those days are gone. u are in a new era.There are no more secrets.Ther is no more unwritten code of conduct among pool players.It is a new culture.Hope u will get used to the new way of doing buisiness.With respect
Vagabond

 

[OldHasBeen]

Vagabond - Your 100% correct!

Hi oldtimer,
Those days are gone. u are in a new era.There are no more secrets.Ther is no more unwritten code of conduct among pool players.It is a new culture.Hope u will get used to the new way of doing buisiness.With respect
Vagabond

Vagabond - I agree with everything you have said.

But I still hate to see KNOCKING going on in any fashion. I learned a long time ago that if I knew something or someone that the nobody else knew (in a poolroom) that I could either try to make myself look smart and knowledgeable and tell everyone what I knew,
OR
I could take advantage of the situation to make some $$$.

I have always chosen the $$$.

It really doesn’t make any difference to me (personally) anymore, as I no longer depend on POOL for my income. But I also know what it is like to spend the money to hustle someone and have it blown by a knocker.

True Story -
I once spent 1 whole week trying to trap Arty Clements (aka, the Mountain Man) into a game in Bloomington, Ind. I was a salesman that week.
When first walking up the stairs on Monday afternoon, I spotted Nick Varner leaving. I didn't think he even saw or noticed me. I didn't know Nick at all at that time. Had only seen him in Johnston City once.
I only lost $60 or $80 to some locals during the afternoons (4 days later) and finally Arty came over and asked me "If I wanted to play some 9-Ball".
I said "sure", what would you want to play for?
He said he would play me for $100 a game "IF I SPOTTED HIM THE LAST 3 & THE BREAK"!
I knew right then that apparently Nick had seen me that first day and I had waisted the entire week & expenses.
Nick and I have become good friends since then and I found out that Nick & Arty were VERY close back then - So I really didn't have a gripe with Nick. I just wish Arty would have told me earlier to save me the trouble. I guess he thought he would get "some lemon-aid" first, before telling me.
I had just finished a 4-month Road Trip with "California Bob" all through out the South and simply waited 1 or 2 weeks and had Bob go into some Bars in Bloomington and start beating everyone. Sure enough, 3 days later here comes Arty with a backer and challenges Bob. Bob beats him out of about $4,800 over 2 plays. On the last night Bob calls me (I had been playing the locals in a bar in Bloomfield, IN) and I go to pick him up. Arty almost shit when he saw me with Bob as I was a businessman and Bob was a Hippy with long hair and a big floppy leather hat. NO ONE EVER PUT US TOGETHER.
But Arty learned a good lesson. We have since had a good laugh over it all.

I AM AWARE THAT THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE THOSE DAYS BUT I DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT!

 

[Williebetmore]

True Story -
I once spent 1 whole week trying to trap Arty Clements (aka, the Mountain Man) into a game in Bloomington, Ind.

OHB,
Could that have been "Archy" Clements in Bloomington (early to mid-70's) - if so, I travelled a little with him. He was definitely a fair step below Nick V. (but who wasn't?).

 

[OldHasBeen]

Richard - That Can't Happen!

Richard - You say - "even Efrin could get on this board and say...I am going to be in Indiana and I am looking for some "Big" action or "cheap" action.....They would be able to get stuff set up without ever burning a gallon of gas..."

Why is this statement - Not True ???
Because You can't hustle pool (or win $ in pool) over the internet or phone!

If Efrin came into almost poolroom and tried to match up - He would have to give up a lot of weight. Why? Because everyone knows who he is!
LIKE LOUIE USED TO BE!

If Vernon Elliott WOULD HAVE came into the same room, he would have put on a "Show" and leave in about 3 or 4 days with a lot of Cash! Why? "Because he could" and no one knew him especially in a Texaco Shirt.
LIKE I USED TO BE!

As I have stated before - When I was at the Grocery Store the other day and was checking out, I told them I was the Missouri State 9-Ball Champ and had a Trophy to prove it. THEY STILL WANTED THE "CASH"!

Ps - To Willie - Archie/Arty, I can't remember the details anymore.
This fellow was in St. Louis about 3 or 4 years ago and playing very well. Nuttier than a fruit cake though. He was sure that the IRS was tailing him and there was a big Govt. conspiracy against him. I thought he would run through the front window when I reminded him that - "Just because you may be suffering from Paranoia, It doesn’t mean that someone can't be following you"!

TY & GL

 

[cut shot]

Here is how it is in my general area... a Road player comes in and whups a lot of people in poolhall "A"... The players call poolhalls "B" & "C" & "D"... to be on the lookout for Mr. X with a description of Mr. X and then we either play him or not or ask for odds.

Richard - You say - "even Efrin could get on this board and say...I am going to be in Indiana and I am looking for some "Big" action or "cheap" action.....They would be able to get stuff set up without ever burning a gallon of gas..."

Why is this statement - Not True ???
Because You can't hustle pool (or win $ in pool) over the internet or phone!

If Efrin came into almost poolroom and tried to match up - He would have to give up a lot of weight. Why? Because everyone knows who he is!
LIKE LOUIE USED TO BE!

If Vernon Elliott WOULD HAVE came into the same room, he would have put on a "Show" and leave in about 3 or 4 days with a lot of Cash! Why? "Because he could" and no one knew him especially in a Texaco Shirt.
LIKE I USED TO BE!

As I have stated before - When I was at the Grocery Store the other day and was checking out, I told them I was the Missouri State 9-Ball Champ and had a Trophy to prove it. THEY STILL WANTED THE "CASH"!

Ps - To Willie - Archie/Arty, I can't remember the details anymore.
This fellow was in St. Louis about 3 or 4 years ago and playing very well. Nuttier than a fruit cake though. He was sure that the IRS was tailing him and there was a big Govt. conspiracy against him. I thought he would run through the front window when I reminded him that - "Just because you may be suffering from Paranoia, It doesn’t mean that someone can't be following you"!

TY & GL

 

[Perk]

for all you know I could actually be Earl Strickland)....

LMAO..this had me laughing more than I can explain.

 

[OldHasBeen]

Yup - Thats A "Road Player"!

Here is how it is in my general area... a Road player comes in and whups a lot of people in poolhall "A"... The players call poolhalls "B" & "C" & "D"... to be on the lookout for Mr. X with a description of Mr. X and then we either play him or not or ask for odds.

Cut Shot - Yes, That sounds like what a "Road Player" would do - and that sounds like what would happen.

BUT NOT TO A "HUSTLER"!

A good Hustler would first & formost find out who & where the $$$ was.
That is the target. That is what he is after. That is what he will get.

THE ONLY THING YOUR PHONE CALLS WILL BE ABOUT IS - Did you hear about so&so going off for $6K ???

TY & GL

 

[Williebetmore]

Ps - To Willie - Archie/Arty, I can't remember the details anymore.
This fellow was in St. Louis about 3 or 4 years ago and playing very well. Nuttier than a fruit cake though. He was sure that the IRS was tailing him and there was a big Govt. conspiracy against him.
TY & GL

OHB,
Definitely sounds like the same guy, nutty as hell and a great line of B.S. If it's the same guy, he would always take his shoes off after a few games, and play in his stockinged feet. Always attracted the suckers (though he always claimed it was just because his feet hurt).

 

[Rickw]

I love the stories that OHB told and I love watching a mysterious player I never saw before matching up with a good local player. However, I don't think that is good for pool. The hustler mentality is probably a very bad thing for the welfare of pool. Just like the part in "The Color of Money" where Vincent dumps against Eddie, this is one of the by-products of the whole "hustler" mentality. This is what pool is thought to be like. People that I meet that found out I play pool seriously will say, "Oh you must be a hustler." or "So you're a pool shark, huh?" It's hard for them to comprehend that I just like to play good pool and I'm not out "hustling" people out of their rent money.

Because of all that, I'd like to see pool change so that it's all above board like other more respectable sports. We've been at the bottom rung in sports for a long time now. Our beloved game is not doing very well when a pro player wins an average of $10,000 for a tournament. That's chump change compared to what tennis, golf and even bowling players make. Something has to change or we're not going to attract the best people for this game and that will only ensure we stay at the bottom rung.

 

[drivermaker]

I love the stories that OHB told and I love watching a mysterious player I never saw before matching up with a good local player. However, I don't think that is good for pool. The hustler mentality is probably a very bad thing for the welfare of pool. Just like the part in "The Color of Money" where Vincent dumps against Eddie, this is one of the by-products of the whole "hustler" mentality. This is what pool is thought to be like. People that I meet that found out I play pool seriously will say, "Oh you must be a hustler." or "So you're a pool shark, huh?" It's hard for them to comprehend that I just like to play good pool and I'm not out "hustling" people out of their rent money.

Because of all that, I'd like to see pool change so that it's all above board like other more respectable sports. We've been at the bottom rung in sports for a long time now. Our beloved game is not doing very well when a pro player wins an average of $10,000 for a tournament. That's chump change compared to what tennis, golf and even bowling players make. Something has to change or we're not going to attract the best people for this game and that will only ensure we stay at the bottom rung.

I don't think it's because of playing for money and hustling at all. There's still a lot of money and hustling going on both in bowling and especially in golf. I really don't know anything about the tennis scene. There are a myriad of reasons for it, as have been discussed at length before that have a greater impact than the gambling aspect. This new pilot that was just shot for TV that involves high stakes gambling with pool might actually increase interest for the sport. It sure has with poker...time will tell.

 

[cardiac kid]

OHB,

I differ from you folks. If I see one of you guys out there stealing from people I know, I'll give my friend a heads up. If they still want to play, great. If you come into my town, ask for a big game and then leave with or without the green, fine. If you send someone into town to scout, especially someone we know and respect, take a dive to him just to steal our cash in the end, I'll out you everywhere I see you. I read with great interest the newspaper article about "Kid Delicious". Danny "found religion" and claims to no longer hustle. Only time will tell.

Thats one of the things I see wrong with America. The same people who screamed bloody murder when the Enron execs stole hundreds of millions from people like you and me, see no problem with hustlers like you were, stealing from some sucker. Only the dollar amounts are different. Stealing is stealing, period.

 

[Rickw]

Tap, Tap, Tap CK!

 

[Rickw]

When there is a tournament being played and one of the color announcers goes up into the stand booking bets on the outcome of the games being played, you don't think that hurts? If I'm a potential corporate sponsor for pool, knowing what I know, I wouldn't be a corporate sponsor. How many backers out there have been cut up? If that doesn't happen, why do you know exactly what I'm talking about? Like I said in my previous post, I'm partially guilty of this because I love to watch the action even though sometimes I know it's not on the up and up. My bad. We need to clean up this game if it's ever going to go anywhere.

As far as the TV show, hey, I hope it works as good as it did for Poker. If it does, it will still make it damn near impossible for someone like OHB to sneak up on unsuspecting marks because all the good players will become known in time. This internet is killing hustling too and maybe it's a good thing.

I don't think it's because of playing for money and hustling at all. There's still a lot of money and hustling going on both in bowling and especially in golf. I really don't know anything about the tennis scene. There are a myriad of reasons for it, as have been discussed at length before that have a greater impact than the gambling aspect. This new pilot that was just shot for TV that involves high stakes gambling with pool might actually increase interest for the sport. It sure has with poker...time will tell.

 

[cardiac kid]

How many backers out there have been cut up? If that doesn't happen, why do you know exactly what I'm talking about? Like I said in my previous post, I'm partially guilty of this because I love to watch the action even though sometimes I know it's not on the up and up.

Hi Rick,

Last year after our Joss event, two internationally known players matched up for some bank pool. Each player put up their own cash. A local "player/railbird" bet heavily on one. Each rack went to the hill. Each player missed a 99.9% bank to win. I asked one guy weeks later if they had done some business. He laughed and walked away. The only one to lose was our railbird. He was warned! It still happens way too much.

Like you, I love to watch the action matches. The Derby City was heaven. Honestly, I kept my money in my pocket. I had chances for lots of side bets. I learned the hard way to trust NO pool player other than myself.

 

[bignasty]

the masked man?

just to let you in on the big secret about gambling. dont do it if you dont want to.but dont make the people that do do it out to be the bad guys.you chose your profession and we will chose ours. gambling is no different than the stock market, without the trader fees.if you go to work everyday and you make your money you should be able to spend it anyway you want. keep your family feed and your lights on. and then post it!

 

[bignasty]

shane?

his bar box game is great. i was there the night lee offered him the seven, he needs more. i saw them play for hours,he isnt that good on the big table. he offered to play lee on the box and lee declined. so you tell me what the hustle is if he wanted your money it would be on the box. not the 9footers. i was also there when eric durbin roasted him. i mean straight beat him up.that was about 8 months ago. eric plays 2 balls better. i wouldnt bet shane in that match with the last 2,on the big table. but the box is a whole nother story. box 9 is his game. so unless your on the box you got a chance.

 

[Rickw]

Gambling is not the issue. The issue is cutting up you backer or representing something you're not. If you walk into a pool hall with your playing cue and you let people know that you play a good game and you want to match up, no problem in my book. However, if you walk in and let on that you don't know which end of the cue to play with just to sucker someone in, that's not okay in my book. Of course, you don't have to live by my standards. I'm not going to say anything to you or make a fuss because you will be hard-pressed to hustle me. I'm just saying that I do not hold people that "hustle" anything to a real high standard whether it's pool, con games (because that's what it amounts to) or any other endeavor that is not up front and honest. If it doesn't smell right it's because it isn't right.

just to let you in on the big secret about gambling. dont do it if you dont want to.but dont make the people that do do it out to be the bad guys.you chose your profession and we will chose ours. gambling is no different than the stock market, without the trader fees.if you go to work everyday and you make your money you should be able to spend it anyway you want. keep your family feed and your lights on. and then post it!

 

[bignasty]

hustlers

Gambling is not the issue. The issue is cutting up you backer or representing something you're not. If you walk into a pool hall with your playing cue and you let people know that you play a good game and you want to match up, no problem in my book. However, if you walk in and let on that you don't know which end of the cue to play with just to sucker someone in, that's not okay in my book. Of course, you don't have to live by my standards. I'm not going to say anything to you or make a fuss because you will be hard-pressed to hustle me. I'm just saying that I do not hold people that "hustle" anything to a real high standard whether it's pool, con games (because that's what it amounts to) or any other endeavor that is not up front and honest. If it doesn't smell right it's because it isn't right.

so if i walk into your room and ask you to play then beat you and you quit then i offer you weight and beat you again is that a hustle or is that "lagit"
becouse if i dont have to show my true speed to win. and i give you weight till the game is evan then ive done my job by givving till its fair.correct?