Who will be Player of the Decade?

Poolplaya9 said:
You seem to be someone who values good logic from others, yet you aren't holding yourself to the standards of using good logic when you make statements like this and many others regarding who should be player of the decade.

First, let's define player of the decade. Player of the decade is defined as the person that has demonstrated the greatest level of skill over a specified time frame, in this case the beginning of 2010 to the end of 2019. So essentially you are taking into consideration skill and consistency. You seem to want to define it as "who has won the most world titles from 2010 to 2019" which aside from being an overly simplistic view, it is just a completely different question than what is being asked and the so the answer to each of those two questions can obviously be different since they are two different questions. To arrive at the correct answer to a question, you must first make sure you are actually answering the question that is being asked of you instead of another question that is not being asked. The question is who has demonstrated the most skill over the 2010 to 2019 (or until now since the decade isn't over) time period.

You are also putting way too much weight on the title of events, and the location in the world in which they were played. They are both all but completely immaterial. What matters is the strength and depth of the fields, not what the tournaments were called or what words were or were not in the titles of those events, nor what country they were played in. The strength and depth of the fields is all that matters.

I think you can also argue that everything else being the same (or everything else being unknown, either one), that the player who finished second in an event two years in a row has shown both more skill and more consistency than the guy who won it once.

When you consider the strength and depth of the fields, and someone's results within those fields (and not just only their first place finishes but their other high finishes as well, although the first place finishes are obviously weighted higher), and then consider how they did in those fields over a period of time, 2010 until now since we haven't hit 2019 yet, I just don't see how you can really argue for anyone having a better resume than SVB for the question being asked, which is who has consistently demonstrated the most skill over the as of now incomplete decade in question. And when you look at the resume for his whole career, I don't see how you can logically argue against SVB being in the discussion as one of the greatest of all time.
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Great post.
 
vjmehra said:
Probably not...but clearly neither of us can be bothered to do so to back up our respective arguments :-)
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If you keep up with pool much at all then just off the top of your head you can probably see who very clearly has more wins in major events with tough deep fields than anyone else in the last 7 years, as well as probably having as many or more runner up and other very high finishes in major events with tough deep fields than anybody else too. When it isn't even close it is pretty easy to do without a lot of research. :D

vjmehra said:
In professional sport prestige is by far the most important thing, if you see an interview with any athlete...they want Olympic Gold, a Superbowl Ring, a World Cup winners medal and so on.
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Pool isn't your typical sport. In most sports there is an event, either a world championship or the olympics or both (or something else along those lines), which clearly has much stronger and deeper fields than any other competition in the sport. With pool it isn't so clear cut and the words don't mean nearly as much. We have no olympics, and our "world" events on average are fairly comparable in field strength and depth to some of our events that do not have the word "world" in the title. Part of the problem is that we have a long established and very prestigious event that was the defacto worlds for many years (and that many still consider the pinnacle and most prestigious and still right there in toughness, the US Open), and part of the problem is that at various times and with only some limitations anybody who wanted to can (and did) put together a random event and slapped the word "world" in the title.

vjmehra said:
Also in 100 years time there will be a World Championship of pool (of sorts, perhaps not any pool game we currently recognise, but something will exist)...can you be sure about the US Open (probable perhaps, but not as likely), hence people will be able to judge former World Champions, whereas the US Open may well be a small footnote in history (maybe not of course...I'm NOT saying that will be the case, merely that a World Championship will always exist as long as that particular sport exists and therefore is always likely to be the pinnacle).
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You may not be real familiar with the history of the sport. The US Open for example was the defacto world championships for many years and was seen as being by far the most prestigious event in the sport and had by far the strongest and deepest field out there. Even today many and possibly even most still consider it to be the most prestigious event, and on average it still has a field that is as close to as tough and deep as the average "world" event with it sometimes having a stronger field and sometimes not quite as strong but still pretty darn close. There is no question that in 100 years the US Open, at least the ones that have occurred so far and those in the foreseeable future, will still be remembered, referenced, and hold top importance in our sport's history. If anything it is the "world" championships that don't yet have the prestige of the US Open, not the other way around (although they are pretty close these last few years and with some on both sides seeing one or the other as more prestigious). Who knows what the future will bring but that is how it is to date.
 
Poolplaya9 said:
Correct and I think the general criteria is always who has demonstrated the greatest skill and accomplishment over the course of the decade. Unlike what some posters seem to think it isn't about who has the most world titles other wise the award would be called "most world titles in the decade".
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Lol, yeah.
 
Shane's finals appearances (and big public challenge matches he's won) since 2010 -

Year Finish Event
2017 1st US Open 10-Ball 2017
2017 1st SBE 2017 Players C'ship
2017 1st Turning Stone Classic XXVIII
2017 1st Pac-West Invitational
2017 1st Accu-Stats Make It Happen One Pocket Invitational
2017 2nd World Cup of Pool
2017 2nd DCC 2017 9B Div.
2017 2nd US Open 8-Ball 2017
2017 2nd Inaugural Scotty Townsend Memorial One Pocket
2017 2nd Upper Midwest Pro Am 8-Ball
2016 1st US Open 9-Ball 2016
2016 1st DCC 2016 9B Div.
2016 1st The Tornado Open 2016 Open Men's Event
2016 1st US Open 8-Ball 2016
2016 1st US Open 10-Ball 2016
2016 1st US BBox C'ship 2016 8-Ball
2016 1st 9th Wyoming Open Masters Saratoga
2016 1st 9th Wyoming Open Masters 8-Ball
2016 1st Pick Your Poison Challenge
2016 2nd World 9B C'ship 2016
2016 2nd DCC 2016 10B Challenge
2016 2nd The Break Room Eightball Classic
2016 2nd SBE 2016 Players C'ship
2016 2nd 5th Annual Steinway Cl.
2016 2nd Accu-Stats Make It Happen Eight Ball 2016
2016 2nd Accu-Stats Make It Happen One Pocket 2016
2016 2nd 2nd Great Dismal Swamp 9-Ball Classic
2016 2nd Challenge of Champions 2016
2015 1st Challenge of Champions 2015
2015 1st World Pool Masters 2015
2015 1st DCC 2015 10B Challenge
2015 1st US BBox C'ship 2015 9-Ball
2015 1st Accu-Stats Make It Happen 10-Ball 2015
2015 1st 1st Annual Tornado Open Scotch Doubles
2015 1st Great Dismal Swamp 9-Ball Classic
2015 1st Tiger Challenge Match 2015 Van Boening vs Dechaine
2015 2nd World 9B C'ship 2015
2015 2nd Carom Room Spring Classic 8-Ball
2014 1st US Open 9-Ball 2014
2014 1st World Pool Masters 2014
2014 1st DCC 2014 10B Challenge
2014 1st DCC 2014 9B Div.
2014 1st Challenge Match: Van Boening vs. Ekonomopoulos
2014 1st SBE 2014 Players C'ship
2014 1st Andy Mercer Mem. 2014
2014 1st US BBox C'ship 2014 9-Ball
2014 1st US BBox C'ship 2014 10-Ball
2014 1st Carom Room Classic Mini
2014 1st TAR 39 Van Boening/Reyes
2014 2nd Smokin Aces Bar Box 9-Ball Open
2014 2nd World 14.1 Tournament 2014
2014 2nd CSI Invitational 8-Ball C'Ship 2014
2014 2nd US Open One Pocket 2014
2014 2nd Accu-Stats All Star Invitational
2013 1st US Open 9-Ball 2013
2013 1st US Open 8-Ball 2013
2013 1st SBE 2013 Players C'ship
2013 1st Turning Stone XX
2013 1st Andy Mercer Mem.
2013 1st US BBox C'ship 2013 9-Ball
2013 1st The Decider
2013 1st Accu-Stats 1-Pkt Invitational
2013 1st 2nd Steinway Classic
2013 1st TAR 35 Van Boening/Orcollo
2013 1st TAR 34 Van Boening/Reyes
2013 1st TAR 37 Van Boening/Deuel
2013 1st TAR 30 Van Boening/Appleton
2013 1st TAR 31 Van Boening/Dechaine
2013 1st 6th Wyoming Open
2013 2nd Diamond Bigfoot 10B Chall.
2013 2nd Wy. Open Saratoga
2012 1st US Open 9-Ball 2012
2012 1st SBE 2012 Players C'ship
2012 1st DCC 2012 9B Div.
2012 1st DCC 2012 1P Div.
2012 1st US Open One Pocket 2012
2012 1st Andy Mercer Memorial
2012 1st US BBox C'ship 2012 10-Ball
2012 1st Championship Cloth Pro Classic 10-Ball Division
2012 1st White Diamond Super 9-Ball
2012 2nd DCC 2012 9B Banks Div.
2012 2nd Johnny Archer Classic
2012 2nd Hard Times 10B 2012
2011 1st Pool Ocho Open 2011
2011 1st TAR 21 Pagulayan/V.Boening
2011 1st S.Mizerak C'ship 2011
2011 1st US Open 10-Ball 2011
2011 1st DCC 2011 1P Div.
2011 1st Seminole PT 2011 #3
2011 1st TAR 22 Strickland/V.Boening
2011 1st Turning Stone XVIII
2011 1st Runrunner Open Barbox Event
2011 2nd Guinness WSOP 2011
2011 2nd DCC 2011 9B Div.
2011 2nd TAR 20 Strickland/V.Boenin
2010 1st TAR 19 Immonen/V.Boening
2010 1st Ultimate 10 Ball 2010
2010 1st SBE 2010 Players C'ship
2010 1st USBT C'ship 2010 Men's 9B
2010 1st USBT C'ship 2010 Open 10B
2010 1st Gem City Classic 2010
2010 2nd Grand Prio Biel Open
 
vjmehra said:
I never said it was about the most World Titles...

I said if someone hadn't won a World title they couldn't be considered.

There is a difference...if you lose in the final of multiple World Championships you have choked (maybe got unlucky...but if its just luck you'll bounce back and eventually win won).

If you win one and never win one again you were the World Champ and no-one can ever take that away.

I do place huge weight on World titles, as would anyone that follows non-US sports, but again you're twisting what I actually said.

Now before you have a tantrum over my choking comment, I'm not saying SVB is a choker...I'm saying he's lost 2 finals and needs to win 1 at a future point to prove his World Class status. Maybe he will...he has time left and then perhaps this debate will end...but then what would we have left to talk about??
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How many World Champions has SVB beat during the 5 US Opens that he won? Why is it that you do not consider the US Open a world title? Players from all over the world come to play in the US Open, and others have mentioned that it has the deepest field of players. SVB has won the US Open how many times in this decade? I see that he has had many very high finishes in other major events during this decade too (All Japan Open, China Open to name a few). Many others too, from what I see from the info listed by a poster above. Yes, Albin and Ko beat SVB in the finals of the W9BC in the last 2 years, but how well did those 2 players do in the previous 7 years? Have any other players done that well 2 times (not to mention that SVB did that well in back to back years) at the W9BC since 2010, or ever? I do not know. Seems to me that the question of player of the decade is who has done the best, and had the best results (of all of the majors in the world) since 2010. Seems like you keep avoiding the facts, and keep going back to the same old "he has not won the World Championships, so he can't be considered in the debate of who should be "player of the decade" question.
 
justinb386 said:
How many World Champions has SVB beat during the 5 US Opens that he won? Why is it that you do not consider the US Open a world title? Players from all over the world come to play in the US Open, and others have mentioned that it has the deepest field of players. SVB has won the US Open how many times in this decade? I see that he has had many very high finishes in other major events during this decade too (All Japan Open, China Open to name a few). Many others too, from what I see from the info listed by a poster above. Yes, Albin and Ko beat SVB in the finals of the W9BC in the last 2 years, but how well did those 2 players do in the previous 7 years? Have any other players done that well 2 times (not to mention that SVB did that well in back to back years) at the W9BC since 2010, or ever? I do not know. Seems to me that the question of player of the decade is who has done the best, and had the best results (of all of the majors in the world) since 2010. Seems like you keep avoiding the facts, and keep going back to the same old "he has not won the World Championships, so he can't be considered in the debate of who should be "player of the decade" question.
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YEAH! What justinb386 said. SVB must be useless. I have never seen him play left handed or behind his back. Therefore he must suck. Kind of reminds about what they used to say about some Tennis Pros who couldn't win the French (played on Clay).

The man is a first ballet walk on for HOF. Single most dominant resume on tour (active pros in or near their prime).

I would bet my first born that if you asked Earl he would say him then Shane. Remember what Efren said on the TAR podcast?
 
I used to play a little game with my 5 year old son (now 9).

Me:
Alex who are the best pool players in the world?

Alex:
1. Shane
2. Alex P
3. Darren A
4. Jayson S
5. You Daddy -( I taught to boy right).
 
Just to throw this out there, I looked up the winners for the last 7 years of the WPA World 9 ball championship, the China Open, the Derby City Master of the Table, and the US Open. AS I stated in a previous post, somebody ( I don't know who and don't know if this is accurate) called these 4 the majors of pool. Well, when you look at these, Shane Van Boening has won 6 titles, which are 4 US Opens and 2 Masters of the Table) No one else has more than 3, those being Dennis Orcollo with a China Open and 2 Master of the Table titles, and Darren Appleton with 2 US Opens and a World Title. I know its hard to change someone's mind who has already formed his opinion, but there it is.
 
bad_hit said:
Shane's finals appearances (and big public challenge matches he's won) since 2010 -

Year Finish Event
2017 1st US Open 10-Ball 2017
2017 1st SBE 2017 Players C'ship
2017 1st Turning Stone Classic XXVIII
2017 1st Pac-West Invitational
2017 1st Accu-Stats Make It Happen One Pocket Invitational
2017 2nd World Cup of Pool
2017 2nd DCC 2017 9B Div.
2017 2nd US Open 8-Ball 2017
2017 2nd Inaugural Scotty Townsend Memorial One Pocket
2017 2nd Upper Midwest Pro Am 8-Ball
2016 1st US Open 9-Ball 2016
2016 1st DCC 2016 9B Div.
2016 1st The Tornado Open 2016 Open Men's Event
2016 1st US Open 8-Ball 2016
2016 1st US Open 10-Ball 2016
2016 1st US BBox C'ship 2016 8-Ball
2016 1st 9th Wyoming Open Masters Saratoga
2016 1st 9th Wyoming Open Masters 8-Ball
2016 1st Pick Your Poison Challenge
2016 2nd World 9B C'ship 2016
2016 2nd DCC 2016 10B Challenge
2016 2nd The Break Room Eightball Classic
2016 2nd SBE 2016 Players C'ship
2016 2nd 5th Annual Steinway Cl.
2016 2nd Accu-Stats Make It Happen Eight Ball 2016
2016 2nd Accu-Stats Make It Happen One Pocket 2016
2016 2nd 2nd Great Dismal Swamp 9-Ball Classic
2016 2nd Challenge of Champions 2016
2015 1st Challenge of Champions 2015
2015 1st World Pool Masters 2015
2015 1st DCC 2015 10B Challenge
2015 1st US BBox C'ship 2015 9-Ball
2015 1st Accu-Stats Make It Happen 10-Ball 2015
2015 1st 1st Annual Tornado Open Scotch Doubles
2015 1st Great Dismal Swamp 9-Ball Classic
2015 1st Tiger Challenge Match 2015 Van Boening vs Dechaine
2015 2nd World 9B C'ship 2015
2015 2nd Carom Room Spring Classic 8-Ball
2014 1st US Open 9-Ball 2014
2014 1st World Pool Masters 2014
2014 1st DCC 2014 10B Challenge
2014 1st DCC 2014 9B Div.
2014 1st Challenge Match: Van Boening vs. Ekonomopoulos
2014 1st SBE 2014 Players C'ship
2014 1st Andy Mercer Mem. 2014
2014 1st US BBox C'ship 2014 9-Ball
2014 1st US BBox C'ship 2014 10-Ball
2014 1st Carom Room Classic Mini
2014 1st TAR 39 Van Boening/Reyes
2014 2nd Smokin Aces Bar Box 9-Ball Open
2014 2nd World 14.1 Tournament 2014
2014 2nd CSI Invitational 8-Ball C'Ship 2014
2014 2nd US Open One Pocket 2014
2014 2nd Accu-Stats All Star Invitational
2013 1st US Open 9-Ball 2013
2013 1st US Open 8-Ball 2013
2013 1st SBE 2013 Players C'ship
2013 1st Turning Stone XX
2013 1st Andy Mercer Mem.
2013 1st US BBox C'ship 2013 9-Ball
2013 1st The Decider
2013 1st Accu-Stats 1-Pkt Invitational
2013 1st 2nd Steinway Classic
2013 1st TAR 35 Van Boening/Orcollo
2013 1st TAR 34 Van Boening/Reyes
2013 1st TAR 37 Van Boening/Deuel
2013 1st TAR 30 Van Boening/Appleton
2013 1st TAR 31 Van Boening/Dechaine
2013 1st 6th Wyoming Open
2013 2nd Diamond Bigfoot 10B Chall.
2013 2nd Wy. Open Saratoga
2012 1st US Open 9-Ball 2012
2012 1st SBE 2012 Players C'ship
2012 1st DCC 2012 9B Div.
2012 1st DCC 2012 1P Div.
2012 1st US Open One Pocket 2012
2012 1st Andy Mercer Memorial
2012 1st US BBox C'ship 2012 10-Ball
2012 1st Championship Cloth Pro Classic 10-Ball Division
2012 1st White Diamond Super 9-Ball
2012 2nd DCC 2012 9B Banks Div.
2012 2nd Johnny Archer Classic
2012 2nd Hard Times 10B 2012
2011 1st Pool Ocho Open 2011
2011 1st TAR 21 Pagulayan/V.Boening
2011 1st S.Mizerak C'ship 2011
2011 1st US Open 10-Ball 2011
2011 1st DCC 2011 1P Div.
2011 1st Seminole PT 2011 #3
2011 1st TAR 22 Strickland/V.Boening
2011 1st Turning Stone XVIII
2011 1st Runrunner Open Barbox Event
2011 2nd Guinness WSOP 2011
2011 2nd DCC 2011 9B Div.
2011 2nd TAR 20 Strickland/V.Boenin
2010 1st TAR 19 Immonen/V.Boening
2010 1st Ultimate 10 Ball 2010
2010 1st SBE 2010 Players C'ship
2010 1st USBT C'ship 2010 Men's 9B
2010 1st USBT C'ship 2010 Open 10B
2010 1st Gem City Classic 2010
2010 2nd Grand Prio Biel Open
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That is impressive....and thanx for your effort....
...soooo...which player tops that?
 
bad_hit said:
Shane's finals appearances (and big public challenge matches he's won) since 2010 -

Year Finish Event
2017 1st US Open 10-Ball 2017
2017 1st SBE 2017 Players C'ship
2017 1st Turning Stone Classic XXVIII
2017 1st Pac-West Invitational
2017 1st Accu-Stats Make It Happen One Pocket Invitational
2017 2nd World Cup of Pool
2017 2nd DCC 2017 9B Div.
2017 2nd US Open 8-Ball 2017
2017 2nd Inaugural Scotty Townsend Memorial One Pocket
2017 2nd Upper Midwest Pro Am 8-Ball
2016 1st US Open 9-Ball 2016
2016 1st DCC 2016 9B Div.
2016 1st The Tornado Open 2016 Open Men's Event
2016 1st US Open 8-Ball 2016
2016 1st US Open 10-Ball 2016
2016 1st US BBox C'ship 2016 8-Ball
2016 1st 9th Wyoming Open Masters Saratoga
2016 1st 9th Wyoming Open Masters 8-Ball
2016 1st Pick Your Poison Challenge
2016 2nd World 9B C'ship 2016
2016 2nd DCC 2016 10B Challenge
2016 2nd The Break Room Eightball Classic
2016 2nd SBE 2016 Players C'ship
2016 2nd 5th Annual Steinway Cl.
2016 2nd Accu-Stats Make It Happen Eight Ball 2016
2016 2nd Accu-Stats Make It Happen One Pocket 2016
2016 2nd 2nd Great Dismal Swamp 9-Ball Classic
2016 2nd Challenge of Champions 2016
2015 1st Challenge of Champions 2015
2015 1st World Pool Masters 2015
2015 1st DCC 2015 10B Challenge
2015 1st US BBox C'ship 2015 9-Ball
2015 1st Accu-Stats Make It Happen 10-Ball 2015
2015 1st 1st Annual Tornado Open Scotch Doubles
2015 1st Great Dismal Swamp 9-Ball Classic
2015 1st Tiger Challenge Match 2015 Van Boening vs Dechaine
2015 2nd World 9B C'ship 2015
2015 2nd Carom Room Spring Classic 8-Ball
2014 1st US Open 9-Ball 2014
2014 1st World Pool Masters 2014
2014 1st DCC 2014 10B Challenge
2014 1st DCC 2014 9B Div.
2014 1st Challenge Match: Van Boening vs. Ekonomopoulos
2014 1st SBE 2014 Players C'ship
2014 1st Andy Mercer Mem. 2014
2014 1st US BBox C'ship 2014 9-Ball
2014 1st US BBox C'ship 2014 10-Ball
2014 1st Carom Room Classic Mini
2014 1st TAR 39 Van Boening/Reyes
2014 2nd Smokin Aces Bar Box 9-Ball Open
2014 2nd World 14.1 Tournament 2014
2014 2nd CSI Invitational 8-Ball C'Ship 2014
2014 2nd US Open One Pocket 2014
2014 2nd Accu-Stats All Star Invitational
2013 1st US Open 9-Ball 2013
2013 1st US Open 8-Ball 2013
2013 1st SBE 2013 Players C'ship
2013 1st Turning Stone XX
2013 1st Andy Mercer Mem.
2013 1st US BBox C'ship 2013 9-Ball
2013 1st The Decider
2013 1st Accu-Stats 1-Pkt Invitational
2013 1st 2nd Steinway Classic
2013 1st TAR 35 Van Boening/Orcollo
2013 1st TAR 34 Van Boening/Reyes
2013 1st TAR 37 Van Boening/Deuel
2013 1st TAR 30 Van Boening/Appleton
2013 1st TAR 31 Van Boening/Dechaine
2013 1st 6th Wyoming Open
2013 2nd Diamond Bigfoot 10B Chall.
2013 2nd Wy. Open Saratoga
2012 1st US Open 9-Ball 2012
2012 1st SBE 2012 Players C'ship
2012 1st DCC 2012 9B Div.
2012 1st DCC 2012 1P Div.
2012 1st US Open One Pocket 2012
2012 1st Andy Mercer Memorial
2012 1st US BBox C'ship 2012 10-Ball
2012 1st Championship Cloth Pro Classic 10-Ball Division
2012 1st White Diamond Super 9-Ball
2012 2nd DCC 2012 9B Banks Div.
2012 2nd Johnny Archer Classic
2012 2nd Hard Times 10B 2012
2011 1st Pool Ocho Open 2011
2011 1st TAR 21 Pagulayan/V.Boening
2011 1st S.Mizerak C'ship 2011
2011 1st US Open 10-Ball 2011
2011 1st DCC 2011 1P Div.
2011 1st Seminole PT 2011 #3
2011 1st TAR 22 Strickland/V.Boening
2011 1st Turning Stone XVIII
2011 1st Runrunner Open Barbox Event
2011 2nd Guinness WSOP 2011
2011 2nd DCC 2011 9B Div.
2011 2nd TAR 20 Strickland/V.Boenin
2010 1st TAR 19 Immonen/V.Boening
2010 1st Ultimate 10 Ball 2010
2010 1st SBE 2010 Players C'ship
2010 1st USBT C'ship 2010 Men's 9B
2010 1st USBT C'ship 2010 Open 10B
2010 1st Gem City Classic 2010
2010 2nd Grand Prio Biel Open
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Of course some impressive wins...but a load of irrelevant stuff too.

You even have TAR matches in there!!
 
justinb386 said:
How many World Champions has SVB beat during the 5 US Opens that he won? Why is it that you do not consider the US Open a world title? Players from all over the world come to play in the US Open, and others have mentioned that it has the deepest field of players. SVB has won the US Open how many times in this decade? I see that he has had many very high finishes in other major events during this decade too (All Japan Open, China Open to name a few). Many others too, from what I see from the info listed by a poster above. Yes, Albin and Ko beat SVB in the finals of the W9BC in the last 2 years, but how well did those 2 players do in the previous 7 years? Have any other players done that well 2 times (not to mention that SVB did that well in back to back years) at the W9BC since 2010, or ever? I do not know. Seems to me that the question of player of the decade is who has done the best, and had the best results (of all of the majors in the world) since 2010. Seems like you keep avoiding the facts, and keep going back to the same old "he has not won the World Championships, so he can't be considered in the debate of who should be "player of the decade" question.
Click to expand...

Because it's the US Open not the World Championship the clue is in the name.
 
Poolplaya9 said:
If you keep up with pool much at all then just off the top of your head you can probably see who very clearly has more wins in major events with tough deep fields than anyone else in the last 7 years, as well as probably having as many or more runner up and other very high finishes in major events with tough deep fields than anybody else too. When it isn't even close it is pretty easy to do without a lot of research. :D


Pool isn't your typical sport. In most sports there is an event, either a world championship or the olympics or both (or something else along those lines), which clearly has much stronger and deeper fields than any other competition in the sport. With pool it isn't so clear cut and the words don't mean nearly as much. We have no olympics, and our "world" events on average are fairly comparable in field strength and depth to some of our events that do not have the word "world" in the title. Part of the problem is that we have a long established and very prestigious event that was the defacto worlds for many years (and that many still consider the pinnacle and most prestigious and still right there in toughness, the US Open), and part of the problem is that at various times and with only some limitations anybody who wanted to can (and did) put together a random event and slapped the word "world" in the title.


You may not be real familiar with the history of the sport. The US Open for example was the defacto world championships for many years and was seen as being by far the most prestigious event in the sport and had by far the strongest and deepest field out there. Even today many and possibly even most still consider it to be the most prestigious event, and on average it still has a field that is as close to as tough and deep as the average "world" event with it sometimes having a stronger field and sometimes not quite as strong but still pretty darn close. There is no question that in 100 years the US Open, at least the ones that have occurred so far and those in the foreseeable future, will still be remembered, referenced, and hold top importance in our sport's history. If anything it is the "world" championships that don't yet have the prestige of the US Open, not the other way around (although they are pretty close these last few years and with some on both sides seeing one or the other as more prestigious). Who knows what the future will bring but that is how it is to date.
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Good post actually, back on form with some good counters, you make a pretty good case.
 
pt109 said:
That is impressive....and thanx for your effort....
...soooo...which player tops that?
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No idea if we see a list of major tournament victories we can work it out!

This list includes SVBs major wins and a load of other stuff too, also if course we have no dataset to compare to.
 
Mole Eye said:
Just to throw this out there, I looked up the winners for the last 7 years of the WPA World 9 ball championship, the China Open, the Derby City Master of the Table, and the US Open. AS I stated in a previous post, somebody ( I don't know who and don't know if this is accurate) called these 4 the majors of pool. Well, when you look at these, Shane Van Boening has won 6 titles, which are 4 US Opens and 2 Masters of the Table) No one else has more than 3, those being Dennis Orcollo with a China Open and 2 Master of the Table titles, and Darren Appleton with 2 US Opens and a World Title. I know its hard to change someone's mind who has already formed his opinion, but there it is.
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My only firm stance is that you must be a World Champion to feature in any conversation about the greatest. I fully respect the fact you can be a future great and a current very good player.

You can also be the best/most skillfull player at any moment in time, but until your name is on the trophy it's all a work in progress.

Interesting view on the majors though...perhaps it's an idea for a proper tour!
 
Mole Eye said:
Just to throw this out there, I looked up the winners for the last 7 years of the WPA World 9 ball championship, the China Open, the Derby City Master of the Table, and the US Open. AS I stated in a previous post, somebody ( I don't know who and don't know if this is accurate) called these 4 the majors of pool. Well, when you look at these, Shane Van Boening has won 6 titles, which are 4 US Opens and 2 Masters of the Table) No one else has more than 3, those being Dennis Orcollo with a China Open and 2 Master of the Table titles, and Darren Appleton with 2 US Opens and a World Title. I know its hard to change someone's mind who has already formed his opinion, but there it is.
Click to expand...
Take out the Derby City and put in the All Japan and I would agree with you.
 
vjmehra said:
My only firm stance is that you must be a World Champion to feature in any conversation about the greatest. I fully respect the fact you can be a future great and a current very good player.

You can also be the best/most skillfull player at any moment in time, but until your name is on the trophy it's all a work in progress.

Interesting view on the majors though...perhaps it's an idea for a proper tour!
Click to expand...

You are wrong! Thats all
Jason
 
vjmehra said:
My only firm stance is that you must be a World Champion to feature in any conversation about the greatest. [...]
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This is a personal view, right?

..as in if you personally were authorized by the rest of us to anoint specific criteria as legitimate for conversation this would be one of your decrees?
 
The player of the decade is the one with most cash at end of it. Shane has made more tourney money this decade than anyone so far according to AZB money leaders from 2010 - present.

Shane 2010-present 1.3 million approx.
1.3 million this decade is more thane everyone's lifetime earnings but Reyes/Mika according to AZB money leaders

Darren 2010-present 900K approx.

Dennis is somewhere between 700-800K

I doubt anyone will overtake Shane's tourney money for the decade in the next 2 years
 
I had heard someone mention the All Japan as a major, but since most tours with "majors", such as tennis and golf have 4, I mentioned these 4. Of the 4 I mentioned, I would think the Master of the Table would be the hardest to win as you have to excel at three different disciplines. Of course, that is just my opinion and carries no weight.
 
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