Why?
US Open 9-ball has the deepest field and is the most difficult to win
Who will be Player of the Decade?
- Thread starter PhilosopherKing
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US Open 9-ball has the deepest field and is the most difficult to win
Correct, that is my stance.
Again correct, 2nd place is failure in professional sport (however good a result that may be in the grand scheme of things, I mean no disrespect to any pro that achieves 2nd place in any World Class tournament, it is of course a great achievement).
I rate him higher as a player yes, however thats slightly different to saying he's a great.
Effectively in this scenario I'm saying SVB has the greater talent, but has so far failed to claim the ultimate prize. Daryl Peach punched above his weight and managed to claim it...who would I back in an even contest right now...SVB...but I don't think he's a great as he hasn't been able to win a World title (again to re-iterate, just because you win a world title that doesn't make you a great, it just means without one you can't be considered as one).
Thats very subjective...and very US centric.
I appreciate in the past that was almost certainly the case and also in any given year it could be the case...but overall I'm not sure these days thats always the case.
Some very good points.
I like the longer format that Chinese 8-Ball and snooker use for the World Championships as I think it reduces luck, but even then the early races are short, its simply unavoidable due to scheduling.
Yes that does mean in any single year the favourite can get knocked out...but over a 10 year period luck should even out.
I'd agree that 4 rounds of golf on a World Championship course reduces the luck element far more than the format of the World 9-Ball Championships.
That said, I guess by its very nature 9-Ball is a bit more of a luck orientated game.
Are you ****king kidding me?
He's been in the finals of two world championships, won the world cup of pool and has been in the top 8 or at least sixteen in every international tournament he's played in. Plus he's won 4 us opens, three of which were in a row against the players that have won those world championships, get the **** out of here with that can't even be considered hateraide shit.
Jaden
He's been in the finals of two world championships, won the world cup of pool and has been in the top 8 or at least sixteen in every international tournament he's played in. Plus he's won 4 us opens, three of which were in a row against the players that have won those world championships, get the **** out of here with that can't even be considered hateraide shit.
Jaden
I would even argue that getting second two years in a row...
I would even argue that getting 2nd two years in a row is stronger than winning one year in a decade.
Jaden
I would even argue that getting 2nd two years in a row is stronger than winning one year in a decade.
Jaden
Regardless of the format they are still badges of honor ,, let's not forget you have to get thru the group to make it to the one and done ,, golf still have world match play events I believe the US Amature is match play also , how many did tiger win ,,
There is a certain grit a player has to have to win them , it's certainly a great feat , I suspect Wu has more than one in his future , Ko little Ko , Biado also
You simply cannot discount the feat just because they didn't get a second crack at the cheese , , they simply should have played better
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For all those who don't think it's SVB lets go at this another way.
Based on body of work (wins and high finishes in MAJOR tournaments) from 2010~2017 lets agree that the only logical contenders are:
1. SVB
2. Alex P
3. Darren A
4. Mika
5. Dennis O
6. Wu Chia-Ching
7. Ko Ping-Yi
8. Niels F
- Did I miss anyone else who should be considered (remember 2010 onward)?
- Only Darren and Ko have won one of these during his time.
and now the drum-rollllllllllllll........ who has done more in this decade than SVB?
Even Stevie knows the answer.
Based on body of work (wins and high finishes in MAJOR tournaments) from 2010~2017 lets agree that the only logical contenders are:
1. SVB
2. Alex P
3. Darren A
4. Mika
5. Dennis O
6. Wu Chia-Ching
7. Ko Ping-Yi
8. Niels F
- Did I miss anyone else who should be considered (remember 2010 onward)?
- Only Darren and Ko have won one of these during his time.
and now the drum-rollllllllllllll........ who has done more in this decade than SVB?
Even Stevie knows the answer.
Attachments
It's hard to argue against Shane in the full body of work even with out a world title
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justinb386
Banned
Yeah, I think it is amazing that he was able to get into the finals of the W9BC 2 years in a row. I do not know how close of a match it was against Albin, but it was very close against Ko. Could have gone either way in those few final games.
Here (based on the AzB database) is a list of SVB's top-five finishes in events outside the USA this decade.
2010
1st -- Ultimate 10-Ball Championship (Aruba)
2nd -- Grand Prix Biel Open (Switzerland)
T5th -- China Open
T5th -- Dynamic French Open
2011
1st -- Pool Ocho Open (Nicaragua)
2nd -- Guiness World Series of Pool (Indonesia)
T5th -- WPA World 9-Ball Championship (Qatar)
T5th -- All Japan Open Championship
2012
T3rd -- World Cup of Pool [doubles] (Philippines)
2013
T5th -- World Pool Masters (England)
2014
1st -- World Pool Masters (England)
T5th -- China Open
T5th -- World Cup of Pool [doubles] (England)
T5th -- WPA World 9-Ball Championship (Qatar)
2015
1st -- World Pool Masters (England)
2nd -- WPA World 9-Ball Championship (Qatar)
T3rd -- All Japan Open
2016
2nd -- WPA World 9-Ball Championship (Qatar)
2017
2nd -- World Cup of Pool [doubles] (England)
2010, 2012, 2014, 2016
2nd -- Mosconi Cup [teams] (England)
2010
1st -- Ultimate 10-Ball Championship (Aruba)
2nd -- Grand Prix Biel Open (Switzerland)
T5th -- China Open
T5th -- Dynamic French Open
2011
1st -- Pool Ocho Open (Nicaragua)
2nd -- Guiness World Series of Pool (Indonesia)
T5th -- WPA World 9-Ball Championship (Qatar)
T5th -- All Japan Open Championship
2012
T3rd -- World Cup of Pool [doubles] (Philippines)
2013
T5th -- World Pool Masters (England)
2014
1st -- World Pool Masters (England)
T5th -- China Open
T5th -- World Cup of Pool [doubles] (England)
T5th -- WPA World 9-Ball Championship (Qatar)
2015
1st -- World Pool Masters (England)
2nd -- WPA World 9-Ball Championship (Qatar)
T3rd -- All Japan Open
2016
2nd -- WPA World 9-Ball Championship (Qatar)
2017
2nd -- World Cup of Pool [doubles] (England)
2010, 2012, 2014, 2016
2nd -- Mosconi Cup [teams] (England)
Without regard to the context of this thread -- Shane Van Boening has already established himself as one of the greatest pool players ever.
Slight hyperbole there I'd say...very good yes, one of the greatest ever...not yet...but he's not finished yet, so who knows.
You seem to be someone who values good logic from others, yet you aren't holding yourself to the standards of using good logic when you make statements like this and many others regarding who should be player of the decade.
First, let's define player of the decade. Player of the decade is defined as the person that has demonstrated the greatest level of skill over a specified time frame, in this case the beginning of 2010 to the end of 2019. So essentially you are taking into consideration skill and consistency. You seem to want to define it as "who has won the most world titles from 2010 to 2019" which aside from being an overly simplistic view, it is just a completely different question than what is being asked and the so the answer to each of those two questions can obviously be different since they are two different questions. To arrive at the correct answer to a question, you must first make sure you are actually answering the question that is being asked of you instead of another question that is not being asked. The question is who has demonstrated the most skill over the 2010 to 2019 (or until now since the decade isn't over) time period.
You are also putting way too much weight on the title of events, and the location in the world in which they were played. They are both all but completely immaterial. What matters is the strength and depth of the fields, not what the tournaments were called or what words were or were not in the titles of those events, nor what country they were played in. The strength and depth of the fields is all that matters.
I think you can also argue that everything else being the same (or everything else being unknown, either one), that the player who finished second in an event two years in a row has shown both more skill and more consistency than the guy who won it once.
When you consider the strength and depth of the fields, and someone's results within those fields (and not just only their first place finishes but their other high finishes as well, although the first place finishes are obviously weighted higher), and then consider how they did in those fields over a period of time, 2010 until now since we haven't hit 2019 yet, I just don't see how you can really argue for anyone having a better resume than SVB for the question being asked, which is who has consistently demonstrated the most skill over the as of now incomplete decade in question. And when you look at the resume for his whole career, I don't see how you can logically argue against SVB being in the discussion as one of the greatest of all time.
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Because he's a Brit
Something pretty stupendous would have to happen in 2018/2019 for SVB not to be the logical choice.
SVB has demonstrated the following:
1. Unbelievable high gear that matches or exceeds that I have seen from anyone else on the planet.
2. Tremendous consistency, hitting that gear again and again almost every time he picks up the cue.
3. Versatility. 9 ball. 10 ball. Bar table 8 ball. One pocket. Banks. He is very well rounded.
4. Champion characteristics. Composed under pressure. Rises to challenges. Plays better in finals. Closes matches out when he has opportunity. Finds ways to win.
5. Results. Enough said.
While there are many other players that can beat SVB on any given day, since 2006/2007 he has taken the modern pool world by storm. Alex had a good rivalry with him for a while. So did Dennis. Now Shaw does. But SVB has been the constant in all of these battles. It is the world vs Shane. And when others were talking about how good Shaw plays, they constantly compare him to Shane's level of play. In other words, Shaw is the challenger. SVB is the gold standard of what top pool is in today's world.
I never got to see Mosconi play, nor Lassiter. I missed the 70s and 80s, so I can't tell you exactly how strong Hall, Sigel, Varner, Rempe, Miz, Parica, and the others of that era did. Accustats is good, but sometimes you have to live in that era to truly know. I know that Strickland and Reyes blew me away with what is possible, and after watching what Efren did with one pocket I considered him the greatest player to ever pick up a cue stick.
But all of those players played on slow cloth with big pockets. Many came from 2 shot roll out 9 ball. For 20 years I have compared the greats of the 70s and 80s with the greats of today, but the equipment is so different at this point I consider it a totally different game. Almost as different as straight pool on a 5 x 10, or snooker.
To me the era of "Modern Pool" started when Diamonds became the standard tables at tournaments, when the Blue Simonis cloth became the standard, when the 4 ball became pink, when the pockets tightened up, and when the rails started playing fast and short. This was the start of a new game. I don't recall exactly, but probably around 2000.
And if we accept that this 'modern' game of 9 ball and 10 ball is it's own game, unique from the former conditions of yesterday, then I would consider SVB the greatest and most dominating player of this game.
Just yesterday I watched the finals at Turning Stone vs Shaw who was looking invincible. SVB even looked a tad apprehensive at the beginning. Then he had THE 3 BALL. The shot that left me speechless. Instead of cinching the shot and playing shape for a marginal safety, he banked the 3 length of the table and drew the rock 10 feet for short side shape on a ball that didn't look like it had a pocket. If he had missed, he probably would've been safe. Instead he then back cut the 4 ball length of the table and got out. After that he rained so many racks I lost count. Unbelievable set. But the sickest part of it all is that he does this again, and again, and again. Last year at the US Open Shaw had him 6-0. SVB came back and won in 2 or 3 innings.
Every pro can do this some of the time. SVB calls it Tuesday. He is the man everyone is gunning for. And to me he has proven he is undisputed heavy weight champion of the modern era of pool.
SVB has demonstrated the following:
1. Unbelievable high gear that matches or exceeds that I have seen from anyone else on the planet.
2. Tremendous consistency, hitting that gear again and again almost every time he picks up the cue.
3. Versatility. 9 ball. 10 ball. Bar table 8 ball. One pocket. Banks. He is very well rounded.
4. Champion characteristics. Composed under pressure. Rises to challenges. Plays better in finals. Closes matches out when he has opportunity. Finds ways to win.
5. Results. Enough said.
While there are many other players that can beat SVB on any given day, since 2006/2007 he has taken the modern pool world by storm. Alex had a good rivalry with him for a while. So did Dennis. Now Shaw does. But SVB has been the constant in all of these battles. It is the world vs Shane. And when others were talking about how good Shaw plays, they constantly compare him to Shane's level of play. In other words, Shaw is the challenger. SVB is the gold standard of what top pool is in today's world.
I never got to see Mosconi play, nor Lassiter. I missed the 70s and 80s, so I can't tell you exactly how strong Hall, Sigel, Varner, Rempe, Miz, Parica, and the others of that era did. Accustats is good, but sometimes you have to live in that era to truly know. I know that Strickland and Reyes blew me away with what is possible, and after watching what Efren did with one pocket I considered him the greatest player to ever pick up a cue stick.
But all of those players played on slow cloth with big pockets. Many came from 2 shot roll out 9 ball. For 20 years I have compared the greats of the 70s and 80s with the greats of today, but the equipment is so different at this point I consider it a totally different game. Almost as different as straight pool on a 5 x 10, or snooker.
To me the era of "Modern Pool" started when Diamonds became the standard tables at tournaments, when the Blue Simonis cloth became the standard, when the 4 ball became pink, when the pockets tightened up, and when the rails started playing fast and short. This was the start of a new game. I don't recall exactly, but probably around 2000.
And if we accept that this 'modern' game of 9 ball and 10 ball is it's own game, unique from the former conditions of yesterday, then I would consider SVB the greatest and most dominating player of this game.
Just yesterday I watched the finals at Turning Stone vs Shaw who was looking invincible. SVB even looked a tad apprehensive at the beginning. Then he had THE 3 BALL. The shot that left me speechless. Instead of cinching the shot and playing shape for a marginal safety, he banked the 3 length of the table and drew the rock 10 feet for short side shape on a ball that didn't look like it had a pocket. If he had missed, he probably would've been safe. Instead he then back cut the 4 ball length of the table and got out. After that he rained so many racks I lost count. Unbelievable set. But the sickest part of it all is that he does this again, and again, and again. Last year at the US Open Shaw had him 6-0. SVB came back and won in 2 or 3 innings.
Every pro can do this some of the time. SVB calls it Tuesday. He is the man everyone is gunning for. And to me he has proven he is undisputed heavy weight champion of the modern era of pool.
Appreciate the analysis, however I disagree with your definition of player of the decade for starters.
I make no judgement on skill...my definition is purely results focused, which is exactly what I believe was asked by the OP.
Maybe the OP can clarify whether they meant the most skillful player of the decade, or the player that has had more success (that is still subjective, but clearly different to skill level).
By your logic SVB should be one of the greatest Mosconi Cup players of all time because of his skill level, despite a very poor (team) win record and therefore a lack of success.
A factual statement
But also perhaps that allows me to look without bias (or with a different bias you could argue)..the vast majority of you on here are from the US and you're all claiming a man who has never won a World Title is the greatest player of the decade.
My gut feel is that Darren Appleton (yes a Brit) is probably the player of the decade due to the major titles he's won, not the sheer volume of tournament wins...but I'm not saying he absolutely is as I haven't done the analysis to back that up.
It would be interesting to see if my stance is still in the minority amongst the non-American posters on here, as typically sports are either Global and not really played in the US or played almost exclusively (at the top level) in the US. Pool is a strange one perhaps, in that although a US game, it is now played to a high level in many places and I suspect its only really the US players/fans that place a huge weight on the US tournaments over the truly global ones such as the World Championships.
A factual statement
But also perhaps that allows me to look without bias (or with a different bias you could argue)..the vast majority of you on here are from the US and you're all claiming a man who has never won a World Title is the greatest player of the decade.
My gut feel is that Darren Appleton (yes a Brit) is probably the player of the decade due to the major titles he's won, not the sheer volume of tournament wins...but I'm not saying he absolutely is as I haven't done the analysis to back that up.
It would be interesting to see if my stance is still in the minority amongst the non-American posters on here, as typically sports are either Global and not really played in the US or played almost exclusively (at the top level) in the US. Pool is a strange one perhaps, in that although a US game, it is now played to a high level in many places and I suspect its only really the US players/fans that place a huge weight on the US tournaments over the truly global ones such as the World Championships.
Dude you are ridiculous and your logic is beyond flawed. You say you are not bias yet claim Darren is player of the decade LMFAO! How much you wanna bet on Darren over SVB in any game? You sound like a troll especially now that you are saying Darren should be player of the decade? When is the last time he has even won a tournament? Typical jealous hater
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