I quickly read most threads and didn't seem to ever see Alex mentioned. I might have over-looked it, but if I didn't, how could Alex's name not even be mentioned? All around game, he has to be the favorite against a lot of the people mentioned.
Who's the best cueist..?
- Thread starter Peer
- Start date
jsp said:
Yes, cueist means versatility. Hence, I'm dumfounded too. Has anyone actually seen Shane play anything else than 9-ball? It might be an 'American pride' thing, but seeing that Tony Drago hasn't yet gotten a single vote -- a guy who won every single match at the Mosconi Cup (9-ball) and has run the fastest century in snooker ever. Amazing.
jsp said:
I kind of agree. I think that anyone who actually knows those player's versatility would put Blomdahl, O'Sullivan, and Efren (in that order) at the top, and then maybe Drago.
JB Cases said:
Again, I agree, although I'd switch Efren with Ronnie.
Further more, I'm even more dumfounded/disgusted to see that the best of the best, Jay Helfert, has gotten so few votes. I now realize that the mentally challenged people on this forum are in the majority.
-- peer
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same tired old ax to grind
Peer,
I was well aware that you were just grinding on your same tired old ax one more time when you started this poll yesterday. Having played far more snooker than most on this forum, I am not particularly impressed with the difficulty. Yes it has tougher pockets and smaller balls. However most of the game is a short table game played properly, with the seven and red balls being your only real targets, but with the ability to use the six and five as safety valves if you need to. After the red balls are off of the table then snooker is the exact same set-up every time with all of the balls out in the open. Running the two through seven is no more than running a drill that you have ran countless times before.
Efren has a greater ability to make a cue ball do what he needs it to in able to solve a problem he hasn't seen before than any other player. That in my opinion simply makes him the best cueist, he has the greatest practical understanding of cue ball action of anyone in the world.
Hu
Peer,
I was well aware that you were just grinding on your same tired old ax one more time when you started this poll yesterday. Having played far more snooker than most on this forum, I am not particularly impressed with the difficulty. Yes it has tougher pockets and smaller balls. However most of the game is a short table game played properly, with the seven and red balls being your only real targets, but with the ability to use the six and five as safety valves if you need to. After the red balls are off of the table then snooker is the exact same set-up every time with all of the balls out in the open. Running the two through seven is no more than running a drill that you have ran countless times before.
Efren has a greater ability to make a cue ball do what he needs it to in able to solve a problem he hasn't seen before than any other player. That in my opinion simply makes him the best cueist, he has the greatest practical understanding of cue ball action of anyone in the world.
Hu
Peer said:
PoolBum said:
I love you! I love you!
I'll rack for any of these guys.
hilla_hilla said:All around: Efren
Currently: SVB
Years of experience: Jay Helfert
I do have potential! I want to be really good when I get older!
ShootingArts said:
However you assume that Torbjorn Blohmdahl doesn't have the same or greater ability. I have seen Torbjorn play 3 Cushion and 9 Ball in person. I have seen him beat Oliver Ortmann when Ortmann was World Champion.
I have no doubt that if Torbjorn Blohmdahl were to study one pocket then he would emerge in a short time as one of the top ten players in the world.
How can I possibly make such an outrageous statement? Simple, I know a very good carom player who plays top notch one pocket and it's quite obvious that his carom skills are a huge weapon in his arsenal.
Reyes also has 3 cushion experience which is probably one of the reasons that he is so creative and comfortable doing things with the cueball that most of us don't see.
The thing is that Blohmdahl and O'Sullivan both have a good chance to beat Reyes at any pocket billiards game with relatively little - but professional - instruction at those games. Reyes on the other hand has far less chance to beat either of these two at their respective disciplines, even with professional instruction in the same amount of time.
However, IF Reyes had taken up either of those disciplines then it's entirely possible that he would have done more than both of them in their games.
Well, like I said, it's a no-win debate. I am gonna start another thread to ask about all the variations of billiards that exist.
I remember someone saying that Efren could be the World 3-C champion, if there was any money in it. Blomdahl obviously has talent as an all-round cueist.
I ended up voting for Ronnie O' Sullivan. I'm absolutely stunned by his skill and control at the table, in a game that has some of the toughest competition of any sport.
I'm also glad to see Raymond Ceulemons mentioned. In his day, he was amazing to watch.
I ended up voting for Ronnie O' Sullivan. I'm absolutely stunned by his skill and control at the table, in a game that has some of the toughest competition of any sport.
I'm also glad to see Raymond Ceulemons mentioned. In his day, he was amazing to watch.
Ronnie O', is the man. He is capable of beating any of the other guys at any of their games. But...let them try his game. If you've never seen him play position, you'll have no doubt that he can play ANY game. The term "cueist" I take to mean controlling the rock and discipline. RO gets my vote.
ShootingArts said:
Almost the same as me saying...
Hey I've played 9 ball, its easy you don't even have to think, its just 1 through 9 every time, and I can make a ball on those tables the pockets are huge!
Come on Hu, own up you can't be serious right, who you trying to wind up?
Your comments about Efren I'd agree with though.
Peer said:
Exactly. There's a subtle but nevertheless clear difference.
I don't think cueist nessecerilly means versatility at all. To me it means capability with a cue. Shane hits balls and strikes through the cue ball, at power especially, pretty much as sweet as is humanly possible. Tony Drago is a great player, but personally I'm more dumbfounded at seeing his name on the list than Shane's. The two points you cited are great achievements yes, but they don't make him the greatest cueist ever. Millions of centuries have been made, he's a fast player so he makes them faster than most. And the mosconi cup is a bunch of race to six or so racks nine ball, where anybody can beat anybody. just to stress i'm not belittling drago's accomplishments, but the two things you mentioned don't make him the greatest ever cueist.
it's been rumoured that Reyes beat Ronnie in a local house tournament a few years back, perhaps someone can elaborate
the talent pool in Snooker is just enormous, referring to those specifically training hours on end at a young age in hopes of making pro, every town, village, nook and cranny in the UK has some child running centuries, never mind the game's revolution in China right now
pool is getting up there also, especially with Taiwan and Phillipines leading the way, plus the Brits/Euros playing stronger and in bigger numbers than before
I see great things for cuesports in the near future, just not in North America
the talent pool in Snooker is just enormous, referring to those specifically training hours on end at a young age in hopes of making pro, every town, village, nook and cranny in the UK has some child running centuries, never mind the game's revolution in China right now
pool is getting up there also, especially with Taiwan and Phillipines leading the way, plus the Brits/Euros playing stronger and in bigger numbers than before
I see great things for cuesports in the near future, just not in North America
quite serious
I have done a bit more than played snooker before, I played two to three hours almost every day for about five years. I enjoyed snooker more than pool but there was a serious shortage of local competition. No such thing as a tournament and the gamblers that used the tables didn't play snooker.
I pretty much agree with you about nine ball. The difference is that in nine ball you play from a break so you often get complicated patterns and balls that must be broken out. Position the nine balls in the exact same open pattern every time and then it would be like the last six in snooker.
I do cheerfully agree with all that say that snooker is harder. When they insist it is vastly harder is when I disagree. As I pointed out, there are elements that make it harder than most pool games and elements that make it easier. When a decent player gets a shot down at the money end of the table early in the game it is slaughter.
Hu
TheOne said:Almost the same as me saying...
Hey I've played 9 ball, its easy you don't even have to think, its just 1 through 9 every time, and I can make a ball on those tables the pockets are huge!
Come on Hu, own up you can't be serious right, who you trying to wind up?
Your comments about Efren I'd agree with though.
I have done a bit more than played snooker before, I played two to three hours almost every day for about five years. I enjoyed snooker more than pool but there was a serious shortage of local competition. No such thing as a tournament and the gamblers that used the tables didn't play snooker.
I pretty much agree with you about nine ball. The difference is that in nine ball you play from a break so you often get complicated patterns and balls that must be broken out. Position the nine balls in the exact same open pattern every time and then it would be like the last six in snooker.
I do cheerfully agree with all that say that snooker is harder. When they insist it is vastly harder is when I disagree. As I pointed out, there are elements that make it harder than most pool games and elements that make it easier. When a decent player gets a shot down at the money end of the table early in the game it is slaughter.
Hu
If this was on a snooker forum Steve Davis's name would be all over it. He is the best cueist there has ever been. Nobody ever stood out like he did as a guy who had the best delivery of the cue through the ball. He has been eclipsed as the best ever player by Hendry(and only by Hendry) but his fundamentals have never been equaled. Allison clearly used Davis as a template to good effect as did just about the entire generation of players we are watching today. The game was a lot different before he came along.