WHo's your pick? RObles or Hohmann for World Straight Pool Champ

Allen Hopkins' Tournament Record (Thanks to Charles Ursiti)
August 25 - 29, 1970

5th Annual BCA U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
5th High Run 74
August 16 – 21, 1971

6th Annual BCA U. S. Open Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
25th
August 15 – 19, 1972

7th Annual BCA U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
9th High Run 141
January 26 – February 17, 1973

5th Annual Los Angeles World Pocket Billiard Championship Tournament American Legion Post 43 – 2035 North Highland Ave – Hollywood, CA

10th
August 7 - 11, 1973

8th BCA Annual U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom - Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
15th

February 1 - 23, 1974

6th Annual World’s Pocket Billiard Championship
American Legion Post #3 - 2035 North Highland Ave - Hollywood, CA
2nd High Run 150
August 5 - 10, 1974

9th Annual U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel – Chicago
9th
August 16 – 25, 1975

10th Annual BCA U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel – Chicago
5th

August 9 – 15, 1976

1st Annual PPPA World Open Asbury Park, NJ
11th
August 8 - 14, 1977

2nd Annual PPPA World Open Convention Center - Asbury Park, NJ
1st
August 12 – 19, 1978
3rd Annual PPPA World Open
Grand Ballroom - Biltmore Hotel – New York City, NY
2nd
August 12 – 18, 1979

4th Annual PPPA World Open
Holiday Inn Coliseum – 57th Street – New York City, NY
12th
August 16 – 25, 1980

5th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Tournament Roosevelt Hotel – 45th Street – New York City, NY
46th
August 16 – 25, 1981

6th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Tournament
Grand Ballroom - Roosevelt Hotel – 45th Street – New York, NY
15th
August 14 – 21, 1982

7th Annual PPPA World Open Pocket Billiard Championship
Grand Ballroom – Roosevelt Hotel – 45th Street & Madison Ave – New York City, NY
8th

August 13 - 20, 1983

8th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Tournament
Grand Ballroom – Roosevelt Hotel 45th Street & Madison Ave – New York City, NY
7-8th
November 18 – 23, 1985
World 14.1 Championship
International Convention Center - Niagara Falls, NY
5-6th
August 9 – 16, 1986

9th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Championship Philadelphia Center Hotel – Philadelphia, PA
2nd
November 28 – December 1, 1989
14th BCA U.S. Open 14.1 Championship
Congress Hotel – 520 S. Michigan Ave – Chicago, IL
7-8
 
Hohmann's record in the World 14.1:

1st -- 5 times
2nd -- once
other top 8 -- 6 times
out of the top 8 -- once
 
AtLarge said:
It looks like that list is 19 14.1 events.

1st -- once
2nd -- 3 times
other top 8 -- 6 times
out of the top 8 -- 9 times
Click to expand...

Wikipedia (again, no slight intended, but no vouching for completeness or accuracy) lists the following 14.1 wins by Hohmann:

2015 World 14.1 Tournament Champion
2013 World 14.1 Tournament Champion
2013 Maryland 14.1 Challenge Champion
2011 World 14.1 Tournament Champion
2008 Accu-Stats 14.1 Invitational
2008 Lucasi Hybrid 14.1 Champion
2006 World 14.1 Tournament Champion
2003 German 14.1 Champion
2003 New Jersey State 14.1 Champion

Of course, he just added the 2018 World 14.1 title to this list.

This list does not include runner up or other finishes in other 14.1 events. A quick check of the American 14.1 Straight Pool Championship (formerly Maryland 14.1 Straight Pool Championship) website shows that he has finished second in that event three times (in addition to his 2013 win):

Niels Feijen defeated Thorsten Hohmann 150-114 Oct 16, 2016
Darren Appleton defeated Thorsten Hohmann 150-94 Oct 25, 2015
John Schmidt defeated Thorsten Hohmann 150-21 Aug 18, 2012

Not trying to compare strength of the fields in the various events in which Hopkins and Hohmann have competed.
 
Seth C. said:
... A quick check of the American 14.1 Straight Pool Championship (formerly Maryland 14.1 Straight Pool Championship) website shows that he has finished second in that event three times (in addition to his 2013 win):

Niels Feijen defeated Thorsten Hohmann 150-114 Oct 16, 2016
Darren Appleton defeated Thorsten Hohmann 150-94 Oct 25, 2015
John Schmidt defeated Thorsten Hohmann 150-21 Aug 18, 2012 ...
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Feijen did win that event in 2016, but he beat Immonen in the finals. Hohmann finished 9th/16th.

[per AzB database]

P.S. I watched that Feijen/Immonen final, so I know that is correct.
 
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AtLarge said:
Hmmm. Feijen did win that event in 2016, but he beat Immonen in the finals. Hohmann finished 9th/16th.

[per AzB database]

P.S. I watched that Feijen/Immonen final, so I know that is correct.
Click to expand...

Hmmm . . . you are absolutely correct, and there is a YouTube video of the match for all to see. I copied and pasted that info. directly from the American 14.1 Straight Pool Championship website (http://www.americanstraightpool.com/players.html), so go figure. Yet another reason to be uncertain about billiards records . . .
 
Seth C. said:
All good points.


Sure hope that Peter Burrows made the right call in moving the American 14.1 to NYC from VA. Just seems that with each change in these various events there comes doubt about stability. Witness what happened at the Derby City George Fels Memorial Straight Pool Challenge this year . . . https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=468329
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It's not that Peter Burrows decided to move the tournament, rather the owners of Diamond Billiards in Midlothian VA made a business decision to no longer host the tournament.
 
AtLarge said:
Hohmann's record in the World 14.1:

1st -- 5 times
2nd -- once
other top 8 -- 6 times
out of the top 8 -- once
Click to expand...

LOL if you're trying to compare these events to those that had Steve Mizerak, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Irving Crane, Joe Balsis, Dallas West, Ray Martin, Allen Hopkins, Dan DiLiberto, Jimmy Fusco, Jack Colavita, Larry Lisciotti and Pete Margo. Even Luther Lassiter and Jimmy Caras, though past their primes, were still in the mix in some of these years. All of them were focusing on straight pool back then, and every single one of them was a contender for the title of world champion.

As we've noted regularly on this forum, these Dragon events have not been world championship events for close to ten years now and, to be fair, the European Championships most definitely offer the strongest 14.1 field of the calendar year.

I wonder whether Hohmann could have topped the fields of yesteryear, given how many stone cold champions you had to beat to take down the title. He'd have been hard pressed to win even once against the toughest fields, though I feel he'd have found a way. For my money, though, he'd have always been a clear underdog against both Mizerak and Sigel.

I attended about nine world championships from the mid 1970's to the mid-1980's and I've probably attended nine of the Dragon 14.1 events. Comparing the two is comical.
 
Last edited:
arcstats said:
It's not that Peter Burrows decided to move the tournament, rather the owners of Diamond Billiards in Midlothian VA made a business decision to no longer host the tournament.
Click to expand...

Got it, thanks. Stupid assumption on my part. My bad.
 
Hopkins/Hohmann

As in most discussions era to era comparisons are fun but not really applicable for all sorts of factors, including the opportunities for competition and the strength of opponents.
That being said, Thorsten won the World 14, 1 in 2006, 2011, 2013, 2015, and 2018. He finished 2nd in 2017, 3-4 in 2010, and 5-8 in 2012 and 2016. He won the American championship in 2013, and finished second in 2012, 2015, and 2016. (I do not have records for the U.S. event held in 2016 ad 2017.)
Below is Allen Hopkins record, thanks to Charles Ursitti. (It does not include the 1990s, in which there were few straight pool events.)
August 25 - 29, 1970

5th Annual BCA U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
5th High Run 74
August 16 – 21, 1971

6th Annual BCA U. S. Open Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
25th
August 15 – 19, 1972

7th Annual BCA U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
9th High Run 141
January 26 – February 17, 1973

5th Annual Los Angeles World Pocket Billiard Championship Tournament American Legion Post 43 – 2035 North Highland Ave – Hollywood, CA

10th
August 7 - 11, 1973

8th BCA Annual U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom - Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
15th

February 1 - 23, 1974

6th Annual World’s Pocket Billiard Championship
American Legion Post #3 - 2035 North Highland Ave - Hollywood, CA
2nd High Run 150
August 5 - 10, 1974

9th Annual U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel – Chicago
9th
August 16 – 25, 1975

10th Annual BCA U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel – Chicago
5th

August 9 – 15, 1976

1st Annual PPPA World Open Asbury Park, NJ
11th
August 8 - 14, 1977

2nd Annual PPPA World Open Convention Center - Asbury Park, NJ
1st
August 12 – 19, 1978
3rd Annual PPPA World Open
Grand Ballroom - Biltmore Hotel – New York City, NY
2nd
August 12 – 18, 1979

4th Annual PPPA World Open
Holiday Inn Coliseum – 57th Street – New York City, NY
12th
August 16 – 25, 1980

5th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Tournament Roosevelt Hotel – 45th Street – New York City, NY
46th
August 16 – 25, 1981

6th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Tournament
Grand Ballroom - Roosevelt Hotel – 45th Street – New York, NY
15th
August 14 – 21, 1982

7th Annual PPPA World Open Pocket Billiard Championship
Grand Ballroom – Roosevelt Hotel – 45th Street & Madison Ave – New York City, NY
8th

August 13 - 20, 1983

8th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Tournament
Grand Ballroom – Roosevelt Hotel 45th Street & Madison Ave – New York City, NY
7-8th
November 18 – 23, 1985
World 14.1 Championship
International Convention Center - Niagara Falls, NY
5-6th
August 9 – 16, 1986

9th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Championship Philadelphia Center Hotel – Philadelphia, PA
2nd
November 28 – December 1, 1989
14th BCA U.S. Open 14.1 Championship
Congress Hotel – 520 S. Michigan Ave – Chicago, IL
7-8
 
Seth C. said:
What in the world did the promoter of a billiard tournament do to get itself banned from a billiards forum?
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There is someone else(from Charlie´s staff) posting always as Korean Dragon and those posts are spam/Ads. Personally, I was thinking already years ago that should be stopped because it is annoying and violates against forum rules..
 
The field of competitors in those 70s and 80s straight pool tournaments were so much better than the fields the TH competes in today and for at least the past 10 years - I have seen most of the competitors from the 70s to now playing 14.1 live and TH would really struggle to come in the top 5 of anything from the 70s and 80s, much less against Mosconi, Crane, Caras, Greenleaf, Ponzi, etc. in their prime, I really do not rank TH in the top 12 of 14.1 all time- at a minimum.
 
mikemosconi said:
The field of competitors in those 70s and 80s straight pool tournaments were so much better than the fields the TH competes in today and for at least the past 10 years - I have seen most of the competitors from the 70s to now playing 14.1 live and TH would really struggle to come in the top 5 of anything from the 70s and 80s, much less against Mosconi, Crane, Caras, Greenleaf, Ponzi, etc. in their prime, I really do not rank TH in the top 12 of 14.1 all time- at a minimum.
Click to expand...

Opinions can certainly differ from knowledgeable person to knowledgeable person and from time to time: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5244132&postcount=152
 
BayGene said:
As in most discussions era to era comparisons are fun but not really applicable for all sorts of factors, including the opportunities for competition and the strength of opponents.
That being said, Thorsten won the World 14, 1 in 2006, 2011, 2013, 2015, and 2018. He finished 2nd in 2017, 3-4 in 2010, and 5-8 in 2012 and 2016. He won the American championship in 2013, and finished second in 2012, 2015, and 2016. (I do not have records for the U.S. event held in 2016 ad 2017.)
Below is Allen Hopkins record, thanks to Charles Ursitti. (It does not include the 1990s, in which there were few straight pool events.)
August 25 - 29, 1970

5th Annual BCA U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
5th High Run 74
August 16 – 21, 1971

6th Annual BCA U. S. Open Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
25th
August 15 – 19, 1972

7th Annual BCA U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
9th High Run 141
January 26 – February 17, 1973

5th Annual Los Angeles World Pocket Billiard Championship Tournament American Legion Post 43 – 2035 North Highland Ave – Hollywood, CA

10th
August 7 - 11, 1973

8th BCA Annual U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom - Sheraton-Chicago Hotel - Chicago, IL
15th

February 1 - 23, 1974

6th Annual World’s Pocket Billiard Championship
American Legion Post #3 - 2035 North Highland Ave - Hollywood, CA
2nd High Run 150
August 5 - 10, 1974

9th Annual U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel – Chicago
9th
August 16 – 25, 1975

10th Annual BCA U. S. Open
Grand Ballroom – Sheraton-Chicago Hotel – Chicago
5th

August 9 – 15, 1976

1st Annual PPPA World Open Asbury Park, NJ
11th
August 8 - 14, 1977

2nd Annual PPPA World Open Convention Center - Asbury Park, NJ
1st
August 12 – 19, 1978
3rd Annual PPPA World Open
Grand Ballroom - Biltmore Hotel – New York City, NY
2nd
August 12 – 18, 1979

4th Annual PPPA World Open
Holiday Inn Coliseum – 57th Street – New York City, NY
12th
August 16 – 25, 1980

5th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Tournament Roosevelt Hotel – 45th Street – New York City, NY
46th
August 16 – 25, 1981

6th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Tournament
Grand Ballroom - Roosevelt Hotel – 45th Street – New York, NY
15th
August 14 – 21, 1982

7th Annual PPPA World Open Pocket Billiard Championship
Grand Ballroom – Roosevelt Hotel – 45th Street & Madison Ave – New York City, NY
8th

August 13 - 20, 1983

8th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Tournament
Grand Ballroom – Roosevelt Hotel 45th Street & Madison Ave – New York City, NY
7-8th
November 18 – 23, 1985
World 14.1 Championship
International Convention Center - Niagara Falls, NY
5-6th
August 9 – 16, 1986

9th Annual PPPA World Open 14.1 Championship Philadelphia Center Hotel – Philadelphia, PA
2nd
November 28 – December 1, 1989
14th BCA U.S. Open 14.1 Championship
Congress Hotel – 520 S. Michigan Ave – Chicago, IL
7-8
Click to expand...

Wow, thanks for this. Great information. Those were the days.
 
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