Why a break box for 10-ball?

[Cuebacca]

I was reading the Seminole Florida Tour Rules:

http://www.seminolesportsmanagement....our/rules.html

and was curious about the break box rule. Can anyone explain the rationale behind this? I thought the break box is used in 9-ball to help prevent easy pocketing of the wing ball, but since there's no wing ball in 10-ball, I guess I'm confused.

Just trying to educate myself here. Thanks in advance for any comments.

 

[worriedbeef]

probably just to enfore the idea that the break is meant to be hit as hard as possible, fully head on. Breaking from the box is even more condusive to that idea.

 

[Cuebacca]

probably just to enfore the idea that the break is meant to be hit as hard as possible, fully head on. Breaking from the box is even more condusive to that idea.

Thanks for your input. Have you seen anyone use a soft break from the side in 10-ball before? I know Corey had that one two-way safety break, but I thought he broke from within the box (even if there was no box for that event). I thought the video was on AZBTV.com, but couldn't find it just now to double check.

 

[donny mills]

I was reading the Seminole Florida Tour Rules:

http://www.seminolesportsmanagement....our/rules.html

and was curious about the break box rule. Can anyone explain the rationale behind this? I thought the break box is used in 9-ball to help prevent easy pocketing of the wing ball, but since there's no wing ball in 10-ball, I guess I'm confused.

Just trying to educate myself here. Thanks in advance for any comments.

The reason why it's break from the box is because they thought it was an advantage to break from the side rail in 10 ball... they thought that at the time. Actually though it would be a disadvantage to break from the side rail.

 

[Cornerman]

I was reading the Seminole Florida Tour Rules:

http://www.seminolesportsmanagement....our/rules.html

and was curious about the break box rule. Can anyone explain the rationale behind this? I thought the break box is used in 9-ball to help prevent easy pocketing of the wing ball, but since there's no wing ball in 10-ball, I guess I'm confused.

Just trying to educate myself here. Thanks in advance for any comments.

From some of the 10-ball tournaments and such from years gone by, players like Allen Hopkins and Efren Reyes (among others) were breaking the one-ball in the side just about every time breaking from the side rail. But, Allen at his best and Efren being Efren could always pick through the resultant tight layout.

I think what we've seen today is that for most pros, they need to hit very hard from near the center to get a decent spread and get movement of balls towards certain pockets. Specifically, the 2nd row goes towards the side pockets, the middle balls in the third row banking straight back to the head cushions, and the corner balls like to go four rails around towards the foot cushions like they do in 8-ball.

Fred

 

[bigskyjake]

man, 10 ball is hard enough to snap one in, Sizzle Van Bizzle doesn't seem to have a problem, but, dammit I do

 

[jay helfert]

I think in Ten Ball, you should be able to break from anywhere behind the line. And the Ten Ball should count on the break! It's much harder to make the ten ball than the nine ball in 9-Ball.

They took a step in the right direction going to Ten Ball. BUt a step backward outlawing the ten on the break. Simply stupid!

 

[Cuebacca]

Thanks, Donny and Fred!

 

[Cuebacca]

I think in Ten Ball, you should be able to break from anywhere behind the line. And the Ten Ball should count on the break! It's much harder to make the ten ball than the nine ball in 9-Ball.

They took a step in the right direction going to Ten Ball. BUt a step backward outlawing the ten on the break. Simply stupid!

Thanks for your comments, Jay. I agree that you should be able to break from anywhere. I don't even mind if Corey wants to soft break. If everyone started to soft break like they were doing with 9-ball with a tapped rack, then I might start to wonder if they should do something. But just one guy soft/safety breaking, I personally think it makes the game kind of interesting, seeing a totally unique strategy every now and then.

 

[Joe T]

I think in Ten Ball, you should be able to break from anywhere behind the line. And the Ten Ball should count on the break! It's much harder to make the ten ball than the nine ball in 9-Ball.

They took a step in the right direction going to Ten Ball. BUt a step backward outlawing the ten on the break. Simply stupid!

Hey Jay, with the balls tapped in it's very tough to make either of them but in 9 ball if the 9 sits pretty as it should when the balls are racked properly it can get still get kicked in the side or up table by the sole back ball bouncing of the end rail and thats not going to happen in 10 ball but if theres spaces in around the $ balls I believe the 10 can actually be a little easier to make on the break.
Not sure why you think spotting the $ ball is a step back, I really like that rule as long as they don't spot till the shooter wants to or after the 1st shot. I saw once in a womens event spot the 9 but they did immediately and Jeanette Lee was hooked and punished for making it on the snap, no good.

 

[Randy9Ball]

I was watching Shane last night practice with some kids here at the Lucasi tournament in Jacksonville and he sure wasn't having any problems breaking head on. He was routinely making 2-4 balls on the break. That boy's break is a thing of beauty!

 

[Gerry]

I have been a BIG student of the break for the last 20 years or so, and I will say this.....Shane knows more about the 10 ball break then any living human IMO.

I have been studying his matches, and how he's breaking, and the man just flat out knows ....1>how hard to hit them.......2> where the 1ball is going!

G.

 

[donny mills]

I think in Ten Ball, you should be able to break from anywhere behind the line. And the Ten Ball should count on the break! It's much harder to make the ten ball than the nine ball in 9-Ball.

They took a step in the right direction going to Ten Ball. BUt a step backward outlawing the ten on the break. Simply stupid!

Actually if the balls are racked right in 9 or 10 neither money ball will move an inch on the break. I think its easier to make the 10 on the break than the 9 on the break. If the 10 counted on the break then i would make the 10 fly all the time on the break... its easy.

 

[jay helfert]

Hey Jay, with the balls tapped in it's very tough to make either of them but in 9 ball if the 9 sits pretty as it should when the balls are racked properly it can get still get kicked in the side or up table by the sole back ball bouncing of the end rail and thats not going to happen in 10 ball but if theres spaces in around the $ balls I believe the 10 can actually be a little easier to make on the break.
Not sure why you think spotting the $ ball is a step back, I really like that rule as long as they don't spot till the shooter wants to or after the 1st shot. I saw once in a womens event spot the 9 but they did immediately and Jeanette Lee was hooked and punished for making it on the snap, no good.

One reason Joe. IT'S EXCITING! The fans LOVE to see the money ball go on the break. You and I both know that. Player B trails Player A 10-8 and runs out to get to 10-9 down. Now he pops in the money ball and it's hill-hill. The crowd is going crazy! One game for all the marbles!

Another thing that is very exciting is seeing a player get up there and string a few racks. Johnny Archer is trailing Shane 9-4 in a Race To Eleven, and he hits him with a five pack to tie the match. Once again, the crowd is going wild.

I look at things from the point of view of a promoter and observe what the audience likes. After all we are an "entertainment" type sport, attempting to attract the largest audience possible. By the way, running racks in Ten Ball is much more difficult. But you already know that and so does Donnie.

What some people are trying to do is take all the excitement out of the game. Let's spot the money ball, alternate breaks, call shot etc. etc. All garbage as far as I'm concerned. There's nothing wrong with the game the way it has been played for decades. The players got better, and the rack wars got worse, so let's add a ball and make it Ten Ball. That's all right, but the rest of the rule changes are unnecessary and unneeded.

Just my two cents plus change. :smile:

One more thing, Donnie is right. Put a tight rack up there, and it's hard to even move the money ball. I've racked for literally dozens of final matches, and can't think of too many nine balls on the break. Maybe a handful is all. I was the one that put a stop to Earl's nine ball flying in when he ran the ten racks in Dallas. He made exactly zero on my five racks.

 

[Joe T]

One reason Joe. IT'S EXCITING! The fans LOVE to see the money ball go on the break. You and I both know that. Player B trails Player A 10-8 and runs out to get to 10-9 down. Now he pops in the money ball and it's hill-hill. The crowd is going crazy! One game for all the marbles!

Another thing that is very exciting is seeing a player get up there and string a few racks. Johnny Archer is trailing Shane 9-4 in a Race To Eleven, and he hits him with a five pack to tie the match. Once again, the crowd is going wild.

I look at things from the point of view of a promoter and observe what the audience likes. After all we are an "entertainment" type sport, attempting to attract the largest audience possible. By the way, running racks in Ten Ball is much more difficult. But you already know that and so does Donnie.

What some people are trying to do is take all the excitement out of the game. Let's spot the money ball, alternate breaks, call shot etc. etc. All garbage as far as I'm concerned. There's nothing wrong with the game the way it has been played for decades. The players got better, and the rack wars got worse, so let's add a ball and make it Ten Ball. That's all right, but the rest of the rule changes are unnecessary and unneeded.

Just my two cents plus change. :smile:

One more thing, Donnie is right. Put a tight rack up there, and it's hard to even move the money ball. I've racked for literally dozens of final matches, and can't think of too many nine balls on the break. Maybe a handful is all. I was the one that put a stop to Earl's nine ball flying in when he ran the ten racks in Dallas. He made exactly zero on my five racks.

Yeah we'll probably end up agreeing to disagree here because I believe we should just set our standards high and if people end up appreciating the game for our skills great (as they do in Snooker) if not I don't see the excitement of a $ ball on the break putting them over the edge. I can't see having great players matches decided by bad racks or dumb luck a good thing.

If games didn't evolve many games would be considered pretty dumb.

And why is it Donnie is right and not me, I think I said the same thing.lol

 

[jay helfert]

Yeah we'll probably end up agreeing to disagree here because I believe we should just set our standards high and if people end up appreciating the game for our skills great (as they do in Snooker) if not I don't see the excitement of a $ ball on the break putting them over the edge. I can't see having great players matches decided by bad racks or dumb luck a good thing.

If games didn't evolve many games would be considered pretty dumb.

And why is it Donnie is right and not me, I think I said the same thing.lol

You did say the same thing. Sorry Joe. I agree, a tight rack is the best rack to keep the money ball in play.

Great players should have a neutral referee that knows what he's doing (like you Joe) rack the balls. If they can get action on the ten ball, then good for them. This is one way a guy with a strong break can negate the advantage of a guy using a soft/cut break. Making the money ball on the break (if you can) is a big equalizer.