Why a Full Splice?

[mark187]

Ken Doherty uses a 4/5 jointed warped machine-spliced cue. Won the 1997 world championships with the thing.

20 years ago I suppose you could have called him a top european player. Now he is essentially retired and works as a pundit.

 

[mark187]

You were vague in your original post. You said “player” and did not specify a “snooker player”.

I said 'snooker cues, yes'. Not vague when I accepted the bet

 

[HawaiianEye]

I said 'snooker cues, yes'. Not vague when I accepted the bet

Fantasy bet.

 

[mark187]

Fantasy bet.

Obviously, but still one I fancy winning

 

[alstl]

I said 'snooker cues, yes'. Not vague when I accepted the bet

I'm just joking with you partner. I do have a question about snooker though. Why do snooker players drag their cue around the table with the butt of the cue on the floor? American players tend not to do that because the floor of a pool hall is not particularly sanitary.

 

[Greg M]

I'm just joking with you partner. I do have a question about snooker though. Why do snooker players drag their cue around the table with the butt of the cue on the floor? American players tend not to do that because the floor of a pool hall is not particularly sanitary.

I do that, too. Just a typical technique of chalking for snooker and English pool. Holding the cue at the tip end with your bridge hand and chalk with your cueing hand.

 

[mark187]

I'm just joking with you partner. I do have a question about snooker though. Why do snooker players drag their cue around the table with the butt of the cue on the floor? American players tend not to do that because the floor of a pool hall is not particularly sanitary.

I don't know to be honest. Most snooker cues don't have a bumper or leather pad because they use their screw in extensions so often. I rest mine on my foot. For the pro tournaments they lay new flooring, in the UK anyway, so not so grubby, but still not clean after a couple of weeks

 

[SSDiver2112]

Another thread poses the question of whether points affect hit/feel. My question is how/why did full splice cues happen to develop in the first place. I was told, as a child, that the purpose of the full splice was to provide a way to cushion, or diffuse, the impact of a cue. (Why are cues made like that? Why not a solid piece of wood?) I was never sure whether the goal was to lessen the impact on the player or the cue ball, but even then I wondered why such a small force would require such a complex structural modification. Later on, I heard that full splices were created to prevent or correct warping.

Anyone?

From 1908 Brunswick catalog. Check out paragraph 3. It was about what weight cue you wanted.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Very interesting SS Diver. However, we are left to fill in a few blanks to reach a conlusion, plus many more questions. (I did look at some other old Brunswick catalogs, but language is basically the same.) The catalog doesn't mention splices but recognizes the problems: balance and making a light weight cue incorporating heavy woods. (Other catalogs mention "prongs".)

I find myself frustrated because I realize more every day that my pool knowledge is terribly deficient. I found myself asking, "How did the history of this sport I love so much disappear?" only to realize I don't know that it disappeared because I've never looked. * I can see that I am going to have to pursue my education through books in addition to poolore. For all I know, there are many good books awaiting me.

Does anyone know if there is one particular library which serves as THE billiards/pool repository?

Dr. Dave?

* I did resort to the library years ago for technique, strategy, mental aspects, but never got down to the subject of how cues, games, tables, etc., developped -- the basic history of pool.

 

[alstl]

I don't know to be honest. Most snooker cues don't have a bumper or leather pad because they use their screw in extensions so often. I rest mine on my foot. For the pro tournaments they lay new flooring, in the UK anyway, so not so grubby, but still not clean after a couple of weeks

That's interesting. New flooring.

I don't know about England but in American pool halls they have men's rooms with urinals and the people using the urinal don't always hit their target. Then they walk out of the men's room with a petri dish of stuff on the soles of their shoes and track it around the pool hall. That's not something I'd want to be dragging my cue through.

We have a pool hall locally that has been in continuous operation since 1884. I guarantee they haven't changed the floor in decades if ever. They a snooker table and a 3 cushion table along with some old Balke Collander 9 foot tables. It has a cool ambiance but not a place where you want to be dragging you cue across the floor.

 

[mark187]

That's interesting. New flooring.

I don't know about England but in American pool halls they have men's rooms with urinals and the people using the urinal don't always hit their target. Then they walk out of the men's room with a petri dish of stuff on the soles of their shoes and track it around the pool hall. That's not something I'd want to be dragging my cue through.

We have a pool hall locally that has been in continuous operation since 1884. I guarantee they haven't changed the floor in decades if ever. They a snooker table and a 3 cushion table along with some old Balke Collander 9 foot tables. It has a cool ambiance but not a place where you want to be dragging you cue across the floor.

UK halls are also pretty filthy also, but pro tournaments are mostly held in theatres. This video has a time lapse of the crucible theatre immediately following the conclusion of the world championship final. It's quite amazing how much work they do to get the venue right, the same as I'd imagine they set up for a big theatre production.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

So, when cues were "one piece" the full splice was employed to prevent warpage and to join a heavy butt to a lighter shaft.

Once joints were used, however, they could accomplish both of these goals without the full splice.

Is it fair to say that in a jointed cue, a full splice is simply aesthetic?

If not, what does it accomplish?

 

[garczar]

So, when cues were "one piece" the full splice was employed to prevent warpage and to join a heavy butt to a lighter shaft.

Once joints were used, however, they could accomplish both of these goals without the full splice.

Is it fair to say that in a jointed cue, a full splice is simply aesthetic?

If not, what does it accomplish?

Have you ever played with a nice cue that was made from a fs blank??? A lot of people think they have a better hit. They also appreciate the skill in making one. Here are some made by the master J. Davis: http://www.superiorcues.com/JDBlanks1.html Most 2pc cues have joints to attach handle, forearm and butt that use a bolt/screw of some sort and many feel this changes/alters/ruins the hit.

 

[alstl]

UK halls are also pretty filthy also, but pro tournaments are mostly held in theatres. This video has a time lapse of the crucible theatre immediately following the conclusion of the world championship final. It's quite amazing how much work they do to get the venue right, the same as I'd imagine they set up for a big theatre production.

That's interesting. What kind of flooring is that? It looks like a roll of carpet but they painted it after they rolled it out. Is it rubber?

 

[alstl]

Have you ever played with a nice cue that was made from a fs blank??? A lot of people think they have a better hit. They also appreciate the skill in making one. Here are some made by the master J. Davis: http://www.superiorcues.com/JDBlanks1.html Most 2pc cues have joints to attach handle, forearm and butt that use a bolt/screw of some sort and many feel this changes/alters/ruins the hit.

Great eye candy. Every time someone would post John Davis blanks I would look at them all. Never bought one but always enjoyed looking at them.

 

[mark187]

That's interesting. What kind of flooring is that? It looks like a roll of carpet but they painted it after they rolled it out. Is it rubber?

I think it's just foam underlay, which presumably they glued or taped to the existing stage floor. That would explain why it seems to be a bugger to get it up. One year, I remember reading, that they put a nylon carpet down, which gave all the players static shocks. Think they ended up wetting the floor every day and players were slipping all over the place. I think some venues use carpet tiles now instead, so that they can quick fix if anything like that happens.

What isn't seen in that video is all the structural work they would have carried out. That video is 7 or 8 years old, and at that time the Crucible stage had a sprung floor. Don't envy the table fitters back then.

We've gone way off topic here, but I suppose it shows why investment in a sport means things can get done properly, and events aren't cheapened by poor conditions.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Right. Aesthetics. Every player I have owned over the years was a full splice -- except a Cog PJ, which also hit fine. Plus shot with thousands of full splice house cues over the years -- many of which are, in all liklihood, now "custom" cues. Back to original question, Does the full splice cushion, or diffuse, the impact and thereby create a better hit?

 

[garczar]

Great eye candy. Every time someone would post John Davis blanks I would look at them all. Never bought one but always enjoyed looking at them.

Those at Superior are the last of them.

 

[garczar]

Right. Aesthetics. Every player I have owned over the years was a full splice -- except a Cog PJ, which also hit fine. Plus shot with thousands of full splice house cues over the years -- many of which are, in all liklihood, now "custom" cues. Back to original question, Does the full splice cushion, or diffuse, the impact and thereby create a better hit?

Actually its the opposite. I'm no physicist but i think a FS design allows more of the vibration/feedback of the hit to get to the handle thus the shooter. A cue with bolts/screws holding it together would tend to mute these. You seem obsessed with an answer here. Why? Just curious.

 

[alstl]

I think it's just foam underlay, which presumably they glued or taped to the existing stage floor. That would explain why it seems to be a bugger to get it up. One year, I remember reading, that they put a nylon carpet down, which gave all the players static shocks. Think they ended up wetting the floor every day and players were slipping all over the place. I think some venues use carpet tiles now instead, so that they can quick fix if anything like that happens.

What isn't seen in that video is all the structural work they would have carried out. That video is 7 or 8 years old, and at that time the Crucible stage had a sprung floor. Don't envy the table fitters back then.

We've gone way off topic here, but I suppose it shows why investment in a sport means things can get done properly, and events aren't cheapened by poor conditions.

It's a cool story about pool. That's never off topic. I'd like to see a video of them playing with static electricity and wet floors. Were they still dragging their cues around on the wet floor?