Why are some points on cue "sharp" while others or "dull" ?
- Thread starter BradE
- Start date
making a point
The rounded points are made with the use of a CNC machine.(Computer Numerically Controlled).I can't imagine why anybody would choose the perfection of a computer for the imperfections of an artist.
Navajo rug weavers would deliberately leave imperfections in their patterns so the gods would know they were not competing with them. I can't afford top of the line sticks but I would never buy a CNC'd cue. If I was given one I would sell it.
The rounded points are made with the use of a CNC machine.(Computer Numerically Controlled).I can't imagine why anybody would choose the perfection of a computer for the imperfections of an artist.
Navajo rug weavers would deliberately leave imperfections in their patterns so the gods would know they were not competing with them. I can't afford top of the line sticks but I would never buy a CNC'd cue. If I was given one I would sell it.
Brad, you might want to take this question to the cuemaker forum on AZ.
All points are cut with a machine... it just depends on which machine and point contruction method the cuemaker is using.
Cuemakers like Bill Stroud of Joss West and Ernie G. of Ginacue use CNC to cut their flat bottom points and they have a small radius, but the point length is always perfect. Guys like Ron Haley, Andy Gilbert, and Travis Niklich use milling machinces to cut their V-spilced points which are very sharp. It takes a lot of precision to get these type of points nice and even with this method.
There are also guys using CNC to cut their V-spliced points. So CNC does not always = radius. Hope this helps.
Cuemakers like Bill Stroud of Joss West and Ernie G. of Ginacue use CNC to cut their flat bottom points and they have a small radius, but the point length is always perfect. Guys like Ron Haley, Andy Gilbert, and Travis Niklich use milling machinces to cut their V-spilced points which are very sharp. It takes a lot of precision to get these type of points nice and even with this method.
There are also guys using CNC to cut their V-spliced points. So CNC does not always = radius. Hope this helps.
Thanks for trying to correct some misinformation. People who really have no clue about cue construction, but just repeat crap they hear should not give answers they are not qualified to give.
Ok, pay attention people.
CNC = a protocol. It is a method of controlling a cutter. It is NOT a construction technique. It is NOT a point construction method.
For point construction, whether it be a spliced point (yielding sharp points), whether it be a flat bottom inlay with a small diameter cutter that is followed up by hand work to sharpen the corners (yielding sharp points), or whether the radius of the cutter determines the curvature of the point and the point is not sharpened by hand afterward, can ALL be done with either a machine using CNC to control the cutter, or a machine that employs handwheels or a stylus following a pattern as in a pantograph.
Kelly
As a man once said,"I know nothing about art, but I know what I like." I do know that cues are not carved by hand with a pocketknife but I like a cue with points on both the forearm and the butt sleeve so sharp that they seem to disappear into the surrounding material. As you point out,
(no pun intended), no matter what the radius of the cutter a very sharp point cannot be accomplished without hand finishing. To me, the hand work on a stick adds to it's artistic value. I was not trying to speak as a technician.
RD3P
Banned
theres nothing wrong with cnc or productoin. period
honestly ill take it over "hand made" or custom anyday, price is cheaper and the hit is just as good.
and you know exactly what to expect because the hit on production cues is very consistant from cue to cue. if you like one mcdermott/jacoby/schon/joss youll pretty much like them all as far as hit is concerned
id rather have a CNC dull point "productuon" cue that hits good than a so called "Custom" cue with sharp points that hits like crap. Price doesnt make the cue play good either.
and i dont care how much time goes into making a cue as long as it stays strait doesnt buzz/rattle/squeek/creek. and hits the way i like
sure there are different ways to make a cue with points....none of these different methods either increase or decrease from the playability of the cue when done correctly ....ive heard guys say Spliced points are like Shock absorbers for a cue. This is complete B.S. it doesnt make a differnce one way or the other.
sure i like the look of sharp points with 4 veneers...but i dont dislike rounded points, its just a different style. id rather have rounded points than uneven/flawed sharp points anyday.
.personally i think all cues with points should have 3 or 4 veneers and all cues should have ringwork front and back of the wrap but....Inlays/artwork/price/custom, doesnt make the cue play well....
honestly ill take it over "hand made" or custom anyday, price is cheaper and the hit is just as good.
and you know exactly what to expect because the hit on production cues is very consistant from cue to cue. if you like one mcdermott/jacoby/schon/joss youll pretty much like them all as far as hit is concerned
id rather have a CNC dull point "productuon" cue that hits good than a so called "Custom" cue with sharp points that hits like crap. Price doesnt make the cue play good either.
and i dont care how much time goes into making a cue as long as it stays strait doesnt buzz/rattle/squeek/creek. and hits the way i like
sure there are different ways to make a cue with points....none of these different methods either increase or decrease from the playability of the cue when done correctly ....ive heard guys say Spliced points are like Shock absorbers for a cue. This is complete B.S. it doesnt make a differnce one way or the other.
sure i like the look of sharp points with 4 veneers...but i dont dislike rounded points, its just a different style. id rather have rounded points than uneven/flawed sharp points anyday.
.personally i think all cues with points should have 3 or 4 veneers and all cues should have ringwork front and back of the wrap but....Inlays/artwork/price/custom, doesnt make the cue play well....
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As a man once said,"I know nothing about art, but I know what I like." I do know that cues are not carved by hand with a pocketknife but I like a cue with points on both the forearm and the butt sleeve so sharp that they seem to disappear into the surrounding material. As you point out,
(no pun intended), no matter what the radius of the cutter a very sharp point cannot be accomplished without hand finishing. To me, the hand work on a stick adds to it's artistic value. I was not trying to speak as a technician.
Regarding the bold, that depends on the construction technique. If the points are spliced in, they will be sharp due to the construction method, no need for follow up work. Again, that construction method can be accomplished by both CNC and manually controlled machines.
You certainly have a right to prefer what you like. I prefer sharp points as well, but CNC capability gets a terribly bad rap because people do not understand the difference between a construction technique and a protocol for controlling a cutter.
Kelly
Sigh. Regarding the bolded portion, what you say is not true. Saying spliced points versus inlaid points is better is one thing and open up to debate. But saying the two do not make a difference is 100% false. The two methods are very different. Again, different being better/worse is a different argument, but they ARE different.
If you take a cue with an ebony forearm and inlay holly points, it will weigh a certain amount and play a certain way. If you were somehow able to disassemble the cue and change the inlaid holly points to spliced holly points, the end result is very different. The weight will change, the balance point will change, and the feel of the cue will change because a spliced forearm gets a significant amount of its feel from the points themselves. When the points are machined so the bases are very close together, there is barely any of the original material left at the base of the forearm. The majority of the wood at the base of the component is now comprised of the points, changing things. If you say there is no difference between inlaid or spliced points, you might as well say there is no difference between a full spliced cue and a one piece cue with inlays...or there is no difference between an ebony forearm and a holly forearm.
Kelly
RD3P
Banned
so you can close your eyes and tell me what cue is What????? Can You?????
sure they feel different but you wont beable to tell me wich one is spliced and wich is inlayed...
wich is cored, wich is maple, wich is cocoblo by the way it feels....
youd maybee just beable to tell me that the cues were slightly different one way or the other and thats it.
"sure there are different ways to make a cue with points....none of these different methods either increase or decrease from the playability of the cue when done correctly"
it means just what it sounds like nothing more nothing less
sure they feel different but you wont beable to tell me wich one is spliced and wich is inlayed...
wich is cored, wich is maple, wich is cocoblo by the way it feels....
youd maybee just beable to tell me that the cues were slightly different one way or the other and thats it.
"sure there are different ways to make a cue with points....none of these different methods either increase or decrease from the playability of the cue when done correctly"
it means just what it sounds like nothing more nothing less
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Kelly
Forgive me I'm sure I should know, but I don't, what cues do you build?
Thanks
Kevin
thats correct, when you use dense woods for points(black boar and vollmer) and no veneers and they are deeply cut into the forarm the weight distribution is different than phony inlayed points that are 2mm thick. the weight is moved foward.
there are a million ways to skin a cat and less ways to build cues, but construction teckniques do have a effect on how a cue plays, looks.
who ever thinks that points are shock absorbers should go watch NASCAR and forget about pool.
No, you shouldn't know what cues I build as I have not sold any cues on here and not an established cuemaker with a recognized name.
Kelly
Kelly
I assume that sooner or later you'd like to be an established cuemaker with a recognized name and good luck to you in achieving that.
Thanks
Kevin
RD3P
Banned
so does a spliced forarm cue hit better than a cue with "2mm fake inlay points"?
LOL.
Balance is subjective and forarm construction and wood type are just one way to acheive a particular balance/feel of a cue.
and if its the only thing you rely on to get a specific balance or feel in a cue your gonna be very disapointed at how inconsistant the feel of the cues are that you build.
every peice of wood is very diffferent. ive held maple that was heavier than ebony and ive held osage that was heaveir than cocoblolo ive held maple that was fairly light and maple that was much more heavy
LOL.
Balance is subjective and forarm construction and wood type are just one way to acheive a particular balance/feel of a cue.
and if its the only thing you rely on to get a specific balance or feel in a cue your gonna be very disapointed at how inconsistant the feel of the cues are that you build.
every peice of wood is very diffferent. ive held maple that was heavier than ebony and ive held osage that was heaveir than cocoblolo ive held maple that was fairly light and maple that was much more heavy
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Thanks, you get it. Saying someone can't tell the difference between one strange cue and another strange cue blindfolded is very different than saying the two different point construction methods don't make any difference at all.
I wonder what Hercek would say to someone who said the method of point construction makes no difference.
Kelly
That FatBoy is a smart boy and knows all about them pool cues. For my taste and B- game, its all about:
Precision of construction
Weight
Balance
Stiffness
Design
Its amazing the moves a smart cue maker can make and always considers in regard to balance and weight, and, of course, the woods and construction methods totally dictate what moves the maker will go to. Good engineering is really like a puzzle.
Kevin