Why are SW's, Searing, ____, so sought after

Salamander

Salamander

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As the title conveys, I'm curious from a cuemakers point of view (or others) why you feel that certain cuemakers....Searing, Southwest, JW, Black, Mottey, Tasc, tad, and several others I havn't mentioned....have reputations bordering on mythical/mystical. I've owned some of the above and the workmanship is terrific and the hit is usually pretty sporty, but I can think of a whole bunch of other "lessor" known cuemakers that make a product that is just as good, IMHO.

Let's take Searing for example. Most of the Searings that I have seen are certainly not elaborate. Most look rather plain, but very clean. Points look good, etc.... Nothing extraordinary looking, but yet they command a mind boggling price. Is the "hit" that great (if so, why)? Is the workmanship unimaginably terrific? Put together like no other cue on earth (if so, how)? I'm not trying to knock Searing, or any other cue for that matter, but curious what makes them so special.

On a side note, I've owned a couple of Zylrs, who is also gaining an incredible reputation, yet I don't really like his cues that much. I did not find the workmanship that outstanding. Thought the cues were too plain for the price and I was not too enamored with the "hit". I'm stumped...is it the marketing?

That said, I may never part with my current Southwest. : )

Regards,

Doug
 
Searing and Zylr cues are heavily sought after WITHOUT a dollar spent on advertising. So, it can't be marketing. It's called word of the mouth.
There is a very small niche/market wherein cue buyers would pay top dollar for the hit they like. They don't really care for all the fancy inlays and points.
Why would anyone pay $400+ for a plane old Scruggs sneaky pete?
 
Salamander said:
Let's take Searing for example. ...Put together like no other cue on earth (if so, how)? I'm not trying to knock Searing, or any other cue for that matter, but curious what makes them so special.
Click to expand...
Basically, the market is fickle. As for your question above. Yes, some are put together like no others. Take a really close look at the Searing, Orange Crush cue, owned by Simon the Diamond. Look at the veneers, even the rings. To me, the engineering and construction of that cue, is pure genius.
I am wondering why you felt the need to bash Dennis and Kerry, just to tell us that you like SW. :confused: Also, why would you feel that this is the proper forum for such a post? The Cue Gallery or Main Forum would both be better places for this type of post.

Tracy
 
Well, I owned and played with a Josswest for several years and the hit and feel was not that much different (if any) from the Schon LTD I owned. In fact, I bet if both sticks were painted black, very few people would be able tell you which was which. That being said, the best hitting metal joint cue I ever played with is a plain brass jointed Palmer I now own. Go figure?

I recently bought a Coker cue, flat face wood to wood, and I doubt if I will ever go back to a metal jointed cue. I have never played with a Southwest but I have my doubts if they would feel any better than the Coker.

Looks and availability are another story and play an important part in pricing. Too much of a part in my opinion, but that is the nature of the beast.
 
RSB-Refugee said:
I am wondering why you felt the need to bash Dennis and Kerry, just to tell us that you like SW. :confused: Also, why would you feel that this is the proper forum for such a post? The Cue Gallery or Main Forum would both be better places for this type of post.

Tracy
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Here we go again. There is always the usual argumentative, let's start a fight poster. Look pal, as I stated in my post I wanted to get a cuemakers perspective, hence I put it in this section. As to "bashing" Dennis and Kerry, that was not my intention. I think Searing cues look terrific. As for Kerry's cues, well, I don't find anything special about them, so sue me. We all have our preferences and if I feel like stating mine I will do so. Go stuff a sock in it.

Doug
 
By the way, I do like SW's, as well as Motteys, Tads, Scruggs, the list goes on. I mentioned a Southwest that I have and will probably keep, simply because of the supply and demand appeal that Ruk mentioned, and i think it hits ok. After having spoken with Lauri Franklin about the construction of their cues, it makes sense to me why SW's are sought after. For the most part, they are consistant from cue to cue. They do an excessive amount of turns on their shafts to insure straightness. Finish, and construction are impecable.

Now, you want a plug? My playing cue is a Jensen.

Doug
 
I understand your reasoning of putting it in this forum but just so you think cuemakers are not ignoring you,
We talk among ourselves outside of this forum,
We support each other,
When one is in trouble for whatever reason, we support and offer help and suggestions.
WE NEVER PASS JUDGEMENT ON EACH OTHER.
I hope you understand this.
Our goal and role in this forum is to offer suggestive support without selling our souls.
 
Salamander said:
After having spoken with Lauri Franklin about the construction of their cues, it makes sense to me why SW's are sought after. For the most part, they are consistant from cue to cue. They do an excessive amount of turns on their shafts to insure straightness. Finish, and construction are impecable.
Click to expand...

So SW have straighter shafts? How is their construction "impeccable?" ie how does that translate into their "hit"?

There is a reason why Kerry Z have a 5+ year wait without building anything fancy, except to use pretty woods, while demanding upwards of 1200 per cue with no points, no inlays, just one ring above the buttcap. It's because his cues hit GREAT. If you disagree, you have to accept the fact that your opinion is in the overwhelming minority, because that's what the evidence suggests.

Do you know how Kerry builds his cues? His construction techniques?

-Roger
 
Michael Webb said:
I understand your reasoning of putting it in this forum but just so you think cuemakers are not ignoring you,
We talk among ourselves outside of this forum,
We support each other,
When one is in trouble for whatever reason, we support and offer help and suggestions.
WE NEVER PASS JUDGEMENT ON EACH OTHER.
I hope you understand this.
Our goal and role in this forum is to offer suggestive support without selling our souls.
Click to expand...

thanks Mike,

I understand what you're saying. I wasn't looking for a cuemaker to put down his fellow cuemakers. I was really searching for tidbits like..."Searing uses a special ***** when joining the forearm to the butt. Tad spends ___hours putting a finish on his cues and uses a special formula that resists dings"....etc...

I have a tremendous appreciation for what goes into making a cue, I guess I'm interested in what makes some cuemakers cues so attractive.

Regards,

Doug
 
buddha162 said:
So SW have straighter shafts? How is their construction "impeccable?" ie how does that translate into their "hit"?

There is a reason why Kerry Z have a 5+ year wait without building anything fancy, except to use pretty woods, while demanding upwards of 1200 per cue with no points, no inlays, just one ring above the buttcap. It's because his cues hit GREAT. If you disagree, you have to accept the fact that your opinion is in the overwhelming minority, because that's what the evidence suggests.

Do you know how Kerry builds his cues? His construction techniques?

-Roger
Click to expand...

No need to get defensive Roger, to each his own. I know a guy that can't stand the SW "hit"....he's in the minority as well, but I still like and respect the guy. I also know people that like Muecci's (go figure). We all have personal opinions.

I do know some about the way Kerry Z constructs his cues, but perhaps you can tell me more and enlighten all of us.

As for SW., yep, I do think they have straighter shafts because of the added effort to make multiple turns to attempt to eliminate warping.

Doug
 
I do know some about the way Kerry Z constructs his cues, but perhaps you can tell me more and enlighten all of us.


I have spent hundreds of hours at Kerry's shop as his apprentice last year and the year before that.
It'll take too long to explain why his cues hits the way they are.
Let's just leave it at, his cues' no metal construction and every major component trheaded construction make them as solid as any cue out there today.
His shafts stay as straight as anyone's shafts out there. When his shafts leave the shop, they have already been tortured/exposed to humidity and heat in the real world. Same as Tad's. Imo Tad's shafts are better that SW.
 
JoeyInCali said:

I have spent hundreds of hours at Kerry's shop as his apprentice last year and the year before that.
It'll take too long to explain why his cues hits the way they are.
Let's just leave it at, his cues' no metal construction and every major component trheaded construction make them as solid as any cue out there today.
His shafts stay as straight as anyone's shafts out there. When his shafts leave the shop, they have already been tortured/exposed to humidity and heat in the real world. Same as Tad's. Imo Tad's shafts are better that SW.
Click to expand...

Thanks Joey,

It is answers such as this that I was searching for. Particularly, innovations such as the use of no metal in the construction of the cue (other than the joint pin I assume), is at least partly responsible for the quality of "hit" and feel of KZ's cues. I'm sure that it is beyond the capacity of this forum to launch into specific detail, but every little bit helps.

I envy you're being able to apprentice. Would that I had the oppurtunity.

Regards,

Doug
 
My 2 cents

I began building cues about 2 years ago so I know a little about construction and quality. In addition to being a builder I am also a collector of pool cues and have many of the "mythical cuemakers cues". Bottom line is - most have been doing this a LONG time and are very good at what they do. Take Mottey for example - his workmanship is immaculate from cue to cue. Points are sharp and even - its the LITTLE details that make a cuemaker great. And if these cuemakers didnt make great hitting cues - on average they wouldnt be pulling in the kind of business they are. Many are truly works of art.
 
Personally i have tried over 100 custom cues. And the one thing that separates the good and the best is CONSISTENCY. You will expect the same quality, workmanship, finishing and same kind of hit from a Mottey, Hercek, Southwest, Searing, Szamboti, Bushkas, Zylr, Bluegrass .. Even though u may not like how hard hercek hits, or how stiff SWs are, or how stiffer Bluegrass are....

Also, go figure why cues from Verl Horn, Ricco, Abe Rich etc arent commanding the top dollar in desirability, despite making cues since the 60s ...

Then of course there are some other cue makers, that are known for intricate sticks. They command top dollar for workmanship, and innovative ideas. Bender, TAD, Gina, Ed Pruett, Josswest, Craig Peterson etc comes to mind ...

Also, as said, demand and supply plays also a very major role. Searing makes too little cues to go around, and Southwests, despite churning 250+ cues per year, are in major shortage as they are the No 1 choice for players in Taiwan. Likewise, TAD are highly demanded as a status symbol in Japan. Barenbrugge cues, being solely marketed by Lucky, of course will demand top dollar.

Does that mean that cuemakers not from the above list, are not good cues? NO. As said, its a basic human mentality, people will go for brands, and the harder it is to obtain, the more desirability it is ...

Moreover nowadays there are more too many cuemakers around that we are spoilt for choice. Lets face it, we wouldnt know many cuemakers if there wasnt the Blue Book.

Just a honest opinion of mine.

Bgrds
Raist
 
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