DDKoop said:
Depends on what you mean by genetics. More male sperm go out because more male sperm die.More male fetuses miscarry also. Women live longer than men.Men have more genetic diseases. Women have intellectuall strngths men do not have and vice versa.
Men are physically stronger which seemed to give them the advantage on the break. We are starting to see 3-4 balls go down on some women's breaks. Putting down 6 on the break and saying that is a better break is not only often not the case, but is often nothing more than a 'dog and pony' show.That advantage has closed a bit anyway.
Men tend to focus better, women tend to adapt better. So men learn to adapt better, women learn to focus better. We all have strngths and weaknesses. If a person, male or female, wants to excell, they work hard to make their weakness a strength.
Once mastering the techniques, this is not a physical game, it is more mental. This is not golf or tennis, where physical strength is so much more of a factor.
Sociology is a factor also...The killer instinct, the intense desire to compete and win is such a strong factor...Women used to not be brought up this way resulting in men doing better in competition across the board...this is changing...jmho
M
Midnight Rain
Guest
Okay why are women better cooks than men? Why are women better in relationships than men? Why are women better looking than men? Now some of these questions could not be answered or would be disputed by homosexual males and quite frankly I think you can take your two cents and shove it up your a** because I don't want to hear it. It has been looked down upon through out history when women try and get into the same arena's as men it's not because they can't hold there own. It's basic sexism. Just about all men have this my dick is bigger than yours syndrome and it's quite tiring. Women on the other hand are more accepting of defeat and have more drive on making something work. Men even though most won't admit it will never admit their dependance on someone else for there success. IE my wife, girlfriend, mother, grandmother,etc. was the driving force behind my success. Where as you hear it constantly from the female players. In a nut shell women are not allowed to compete with men on the professional circuit because of money and sexism. Ratings would go down on aired pool events and sponsors would start dropping players. It's that simple.
OK
Enough of the sexist seperation on this subject, the REAL reason women pool players are not as good as the men is becuase of MONEY AND Compatition.
Ok use this for an example you have an up and comming women player in the local amature level. She is now at somewere around a B level player. What happens now, She now finds out she is good enough to play on the womens pro tour and make more money doing that then playing at the local level with tougher compatition (MEN). Then move into the pro arena, where 80 percent of the women playing are at a B+ or lower.
Because the call to the PRO level of play is so strong for the Very good women amatures they do not have to scratch and claw there way into a pro level (Like the men do). So in order to become a womens pro, you only have to attain a certain level, unlike the men.
There is nothing about Women and Men that seperates there play. Karen Corr before she took the womens tour by storm was playing in the Joss tour on a regular basis WHY? Because the level of compatition is higher and she wanted to get better and become the best.
So just like everything else in the World MONEY rules and ruins everything.
DAVID
Enough of the sexist seperation on this subject, the REAL reason women pool players are not as good as the men is becuase of MONEY AND Compatition.
Ok use this for an example you have an up and comming women player in the local amature level. She is now at somewere around a B level player. What happens now, She now finds out she is good enough to play on the womens pro tour and make more money doing that then playing at the local level with tougher compatition (MEN). Then move into the pro arena, where 80 percent of the women playing are at a B+ or lower.
Because the call to the PRO level of play is so strong for the Very good women amatures they do not have to scratch and claw there way into a pro level (Like the men do). So in order to become a womens pro, you only have to attain a certain level, unlike the men.
There is nothing about Women and Men that seperates there play. Karen Corr before she took the womens tour by storm was playing in the Joss tour on a regular basis WHY? Because the level of compatition is higher and she wanted to get better and become the best.
So just like everything else in the World MONEY rules and ruins everything.
DAVID
Midnight Rain said:
1) Women are NOT better cooks than men
2) Women are NOT better in relationships than men
3) That's just an asinine statement
The question was why do the men play better than the women, more specifically, why do the PROFESSIONAL men play so much better than the PROFESSIONAL women. This is a question that is based on a fact (sorry kids, it is a fact that the men play considerably better than the women). Your questions are based on your opinions. Why is this such a touchy subject? It's such an obvious truth that it really isn't even worthy of discussion if not to question why it is the way it is. You can't just pretend something isn't the way it is and expect that will make it different. Maybe if you want women to ever play as well as the men, you should try WELCOMING the question as to why it is this way. If you could ever figure out the answer, you'd be that much closer to making a change.
Good god. Gremlin that women probably has never shot a game of pool in her life but there is no way in hades I could ever beat her in a game...... or want to for that matter. Kudos on the pic, until I read the post I thought maybe she was a pool player and I was going to start traveling the womens tour just like you =P
I want to put my 2 cents in and say strength is irrelevant and anyone here who is saying men are better players because they are stronger and therefore break better are totally clueless on the facts. Strength does NOT help the break. Look at the top breakers in the game, Archer is a stick, Busta is not winning any arm wrestleing championship any time soon, Pagulayan has decided against trying out for the worlds strongest midget competition (I say this because I have nothing on him in height). The best breakers in the game have the perfect technique, pure and simple. Putting your body into the break is the key just as the key to a long golf shot is the weight shift. There is a weight shift in the break that if you do it perfectly will give you amazing power. On top of the power you then have to be able to control the break when hitting it with such force. The top breakers in the game have mastered the technique of the break, they are not strong and that has nothing to do with their breaking power.
There are women with very powerful breaks out there. They have all the break to compete on the mens tour (not the game though). Some women break the balls much better then a Efren Reyes, Marcus Chamat, John Horsefall, ect...... Only when you get to the absolute killers like Archer, Busta, ect... do no women compete with the break, but then again no man competes with those select few either.
Drop strength from the list of requirements to be a top pool player. It is bullshit.
I want to put my 2 cents in and say strength is irrelevant and anyone here who is saying men are better players because they are stronger and therefore break better are totally clueless on the facts. Strength does NOT help the break. Look at the top breakers in the game, Archer is a stick, Busta is not winning any arm wrestleing championship any time soon, Pagulayan has decided against trying out for the worlds strongest midget competition (I say this because I have nothing on him in height). The best breakers in the game have the perfect technique, pure and simple. Putting your body into the break is the key just as the key to a long golf shot is the weight shift. There is a weight shift in the break that if you do it perfectly will give you amazing power. On top of the power you then have to be able to control the break when hitting it with such force. The top breakers in the game have mastered the technique of the break, they are not strong and that has nothing to do with their breaking power.
There are women with very powerful breaks out there. They have all the break to compete on the mens tour (not the game though). Some women break the balls much better then a Efren Reyes, Marcus Chamat, John Horsefall, ect...... Only when you get to the absolute killers like Archer, Busta, ect... do no women compete with the break, but then again no man competes with those select few either.
Drop strength from the list of requirements to be a top pool player. It is bullshit.
Okay, first and formost, to simply look inside the poolroom to determine why men have the lead is unreasonable. The suppression of women runs much deeper then this and shouldn't be underestimated. If you stop and think about what it was like, growing up in this day and age, try to remember how often a girl stepped up in the playground to play with the boys. Think about how their clothing or their shoes kept them from making a diving stop at third-base. Think about what is considered "good" and "appropriate".
Pool is merely anoher forum for competition and competition is a realm that has maintained a male dominance since it's most rudamentary stages. Is that to say it's inherent in men to compete? Possibly but considering the adaptability humans have illustrated over time, it'd be a safer bet to suggest that it was far more environmental than biological.
To put this in context to our current argument, it'd be impossible to ascertain exactly why men have shown more success at pool without knowing exactly what makes up a competitive nature and what is necessary to be successful at pool. Philipinos have shown disproportionate success in pool and I don't believe anyone is willing to argue that there must be some sort of genetic advantage that Philipinos must possess. Suggesting such a thing would be reminiscent of the much criticized book The Bell Curve and would eventually lead people to question are whites better then blacks in pool which is just downright ludicrous.
In the end, I'd like to say that neither I nor anyone else in this forum is capable of determining exactly what has created this difference in women's and men's pool. It's an argument that put in a racial context would appear as stupid and degrading yet the hard evidence is similar in appearance. A poll of this nature would be unfair and would likely dissuade more young women from pursuing competitive sports. It is this ideology that needs to be put to rest. In sum, I think it would be safe to say that the division rests in environment, if not because historical evidence supports this (because it does) but because it's also more American to think so.
Jude M. Rosenstock
Pool is merely anoher forum for competition and competition is a realm that has maintained a male dominance since it's most rudamentary stages. Is that to say it's inherent in men to compete? Possibly but considering the adaptability humans have illustrated over time, it'd be a safer bet to suggest that it was far more environmental than biological.
To put this in context to our current argument, it'd be impossible to ascertain exactly why men have shown more success at pool without knowing exactly what makes up a competitive nature and what is necessary to be successful at pool. Philipinos have shown disproportionate success in pool and I don't believe anyone is willing to argue that there must be some sort of genetic advantage that Philipinos must possess. Suggesting such a thing would be reminiscent of the much criticized book The Bell Curve and would eventually lead people to question are whites better then blacks in pool which is just downright ludicrous.
In the end, I'd like to say that neither I nor anyone else in this forum is capable of determining exactly what has created this difference in women's and men's pool. It's an argument that put in a racial context would appear as stupid and degrading yet the hard evidence is similar in appearance. A poll of this nature would be unfair and would likely dissuade more young women from pursuing competitive sports. It is this ideology that needs to be put to rest. In sum, I think it would be safe to say that the division rests in environment, if not because historical evidence supports this (because it does) but because it's also more American to think so.
Jude M. Rosenstock
N
Number1
Guest
Well obviously got Gremlin running scared! I'm sure you guys will be begging me to leave after I've taken all your money lol!
But anyway, I think we have just about covered all the "excuses" possible, but I for one think that there is no excuse why women can't compete, and beat men. I think this should be there goal and I'm sure if you ask the top women Pros they would say exactly the same thing. I'm sure that social conditions has kept women away from the pool halls in the past but this (as a recent time magazine article indicates) seems to be changing in the states.
My pool education was done by playing the best for money until I eventually beat them. It cost me a fortune as a kid but I just wanted to be the best, not the best man, or best kid, or best in my town, but THE best. Hopefully ALL the women share this ambition and if they do it will just be a matter of time.
But anyway, I think we have just about covered all the "excuses" possible, but I for one think that there is no excuse why women can't compete, and beat men. I think this should be there goal and I'm sure if you ask the top women Pros they would say exactly the same thing. I'm sure that social conditions has kept women away from the pool halls in the past but this (as a recent time magazine article indicates) seems to be changing in the states.
My pool education was done by playing the best for money until I eventually beat them. It cost me a fortune as a kid but I just wanted to be the best, not the best man, or best kid, or best in my town, but THE best. Hopefully ALL the women share this ambition and if they do it will just be a matter of time.
Ditto number one:
Reflecting on my younger years, I always wanted to compete with men, to prove I was better. That is the only way to prove anything, to compete and win. As to why women dont compete with men, there are many more possible psychological possibilities than the obvious cavemen ugh ugh. me tarzan you jane. Gosh, just when I think our society is evolving, I realize how many are still in the dark ages about our thinking.
When I was a kid, i was told that men were stronger than women and somehow better. I was out to prove them wrong. I fought with them competed with them at any game,available and I was determined to beat them, to prove that society was wrong. So what if they had bigger muscles, ways can be found around that too.And I usually found those ways. I became a scrapper and knew no fear. I was not afraid to fight them either, in spite of their strenths. Speed, technique, ways to surpass to get around the muscles. We only use 10% of our brains anyway and many have over come greater odds than a slight amount of muscles and testosterone.
Those years are in the past but i wondered if I had entered pool at that age with the ferocity that I entered karate, what the outcome would be. But i do know that as a young person, I had that killer instinct and wanted to win. This might not be popular but I always wanted to compete with men. This can only be settled by women with a killer instinct who are willing to put themselves in the same ring as the man and defeat them. It is the only way that this inane topic will ever be settled.
The killer instinct. No fear. That is the key. As long as women are content competing with women and most of them take the easier way of competing with each other instead of using that stiffer competition that men present to become formidable adversaries and stepping up to the plate and beating them, this silly topic will come up again and again.
JMO
Laura
Reflecting on my younger years, I always wanted to compete with men, to prove I was better. That is the only way to prove anything, to compete and win. As to why women dont compete with men, there are many more possible psychological possibilities than the obvious cavemen ugh ugh. me tarzan you jane. Gosh, just when I think our society is evolving, I realize how many are still in the dark ages about our thinking.
When I was a kid, i was told that men were stronger than women and somehow better. I was out to prove them wrong. I fought with them competed with them at any game,available and I was determined to beat them, to prove that society was wrong. So what if they had bigger muscles, ways can be found around that too.And I usually found those ways. I became a scrapper and knew no fear. I was not afraid to fight them either, in spite of their strenths. Speed, technique, ways to surpass to get around the muscles. We only use 10% of our brains anyway and many have over come greater odds than a slight amount of muscles and testosterone.
Those years are in the past but i wondered if I had entered pool at that age with the ferocity that I entered karate, what the outcome would be. But i do know that as a young person, I had that killer instinct and wanted to win. This might not be popular but I always wanted to compete with men. This can only be settled by women with a killer instinct who are willing to put themselves in the same ring as the man and defeat them. It is the only way that this inane topic will ever be settled.
The killer instinct. No fear. That is the key. As long as women are content competing with women and most of them take the easier way of competing with each other instead of using that stiffer competition that men present to become formidable adversaries and stepping up to the plate and beating them, this silly topic will come up again and again.
JMO
Laura
Gremlin,
Thanks for your post. I guess that Europe is more chauvinistic and the USA is less so. I know that the european female talent take up residence jere in the USA and make the transition from snooker to shooting 9 ball to make a living. Now there is the Asian pressure from Japan, Korea and Taiwan making it more competative for the local talent like Janette, Vivian, Eva, Jean and Lori (not in that order), etc. I guess that I would like to see a U.S. Open of 9 ball. But who would put up the money?
Thanks for your post. I guess that Europe is more chauvinistic and the USA is less so. I know that the european female talent take up residence jere in the USA and make the transition from snooker to shooting 9 ball to make a living. Now there is the Asian pressure from Japan, Korea and Taiwan making it more competative for the local talent like Janette, Vivian, Eva, Jean and Lori (not in that order), etc. I guess that I would like to see a U.S. Open of 9 ball. But who would put up the money?
N
Number1
Guest
At the risk of turning this into a US v Europe debate lol, Europe more chauvinistic, lol, I'm no expert but I don't remember too many female or black US presidents!!
Anyway, some of you guys seem to be missing the point, I want women to compete with men, I just don't understand why the aren't. And its not to view there ass like gremlin and others do, I just think the women should be competing on the smae level as the men, no excuses.
Janette lee looks great but sucks at pool.
Reminds me of a cerrtain tennis player lol!
Anyway, some of you guys seem to be missing the point, I want women to compete with men, I just don't understand why the aren't. And its not to view there ass like gremlin and others do, I just think the women should be competing on the smae level as the men, no excuses.
Janette lee looks great but sucks at pool.
Reminds me of a cerrtain tennis player lol!
N
Number1
Guest
Ok Gremlin, thats a deal, and when I whip karen ass (and beat her at pool lol you can buy me several beers!
Hope to get on Joss but it looks like end of next year, although I may play one event around the time of the BCA event in vegas.
Be good to show you guys how easy 9 ball really is!))
Go the women!
you can buy me several beers! Hope to get on Joss but it looks like end of next year, although I may play one event around the time of the BCA event in vegas.
Be good to show you guys how easy 9 ball really is!
))Go the women!
Re: RE: Craig & Laura
Lots of women do not want to compete with men and it is not just because they think they will be beat. There are other sociological and psychological factors that come into play with that. Also, in pool, women are on tv a lot,and am sure there are other reasons like money,sponsors. It is my understanding that allison competed and beat men snooker players. She has already fought her battle and won. Why fight it again if it is not economically beneficial to her?
But, in general, not talking about a particular person like allison, I still do believe(although this is unfortunate) that until the women, at least enough, compete with men, beat them, and say, like I did in so many of their games and on the street, 'shove it up your ***, now tell me which is the strongest, better sex, dude', this inane topic will emerge again and again...
and what did I really accomplish with all of that except that I could be as much like an animal as many men? truly sad. i went down to their level to fight battles instead of rising above. those were young days, I was out to prove them, society wrong. I am not particularly proud of some of the animal things I did then. unfortunately, it is harder to rise above than to go to that animal level...our species has that animal inside of us. the evolved society learns to suppress that.
When women are sick enough of this, if people like many of the men I see in this topic that comes up over and over again persist in their chauvenism, they will compete with menin pool also, and they will win
I beat men in many ways, why is it that women are required to keep proving themselves. Why do they have to keep fighting ? It grew quite tiresome to me. I proved myself over and over,some on the street fighting etc, why do so many men have such thick skulls that they do not see what is real, they do not want to admit that women can be just as good in anything where big muscles or weight are not factors. ...
Personally, I think that many men are afraid of us. This started as a patriarchal society and imo, many men are running scared. Except for obvious stuff like football, they lose battle after battle in the war of the sexes. and I do not mean just sports, either, I talk about many aspects. Why not just bag it, give it up before you are so defeated your face is in the mud, and indeed, like in other societies, you are on the bottom rung. Equals, and working together as equals instead of fighting and put downs, then every body wins.
If women have to keep fighting to prove themselves, and men continue to do the put downs out of their macho ugh ugh caveman fears. , there are no winners. just losers.
Dont make us beat you in pool too. If you keep pushing, you will lose, not for awhile, but in the end. Remember, women have adaptablity on their side, finding ways around their slight disadvantages and even in pool have advantages too that most men do not have, once they get angry enough to use these weapons.
The wize men treat all as equals. The wize women do the same.
Everything I have said here is supported by history if you care to read the evolution of mankind and womanking over the last several centuries.
Laura
Gremlin said:
Lots of women do not want to compete with men and it is not just because they think they will be beat. There are other sociological and psychological factors that come into play with that. Also, in pool, women are on tv a lot,and am sure there are other reasons like money,sponsors. It is my understanding that allison competed and beat men snooker players. She has already fought her battle and won. Why fight it again if it is not economically beneficial to her?
But, in general, not talking about a particular person like allison, I still do believe(although this is unfortunate) that until the women, at least enough, compete with men, beat them, and say, like I did in so many of their games and on the street, 'shove it up your ***, now tell me which is the strongest, better sex, dude', this inane topic will emerge again and again...
and what did I really accomplish with all of that except that I could be as much like an animal as many men? truly sad. i went down to their level to fight battles instead of rising above. those were young days, I was out to prove them, society wrong. I am not particularly proud of some of the animal things I did then. unfortunately, it is harder to rise above than to go to that animal level...our species has that animal inside of us. the evolved society learns to suppress that.
When women are sick enough of this, if people like many of the men I see in this topic that comes up over and over again persist in their chauvenism, they will compete with menin pool also, and they will win
I beat men in many ways, why is it that women are required to keep proving themselves. Why do they have to keep fighting ? It grew quite tiresome to me. I proved myself over and over,some on the street fighting etc, why do so many men have such thick skulls that they do not see what is real, they do not want to admit that women can be just as good in anything where big muscles or weight are not factors. ...
Personally, I think that many men are afraid of us. This started as a patriarchal society and imo, many men are running scared. Except for obvious stuff like football, they lose battle after battle in the war of the sexes. and I do not mean just sports, either, I talk about many aspects. Why not just bag it, give it up before you are so defeated your face is in the mud, and indeed, like in other societies, you are on the bottom rung. Equals, and working together as equals instead of fighting and put downs, then every body wins.
If women have to keep fighting to prove themselves, and men continue to do the put downs out of their macho ugh ugh caveman fears. , there are no winners. just losers.
Dont make us beat you in pool too. If you keep pushing, you will lose, not for awhile, but in the end. Remember, women have adaptablity on their side, finding ways around their slight disadvantages and even in pool have advantages too that most men do not have, once they get angry enough to use these weapons.
The wize men treat all as equals. The wize women do the same.
Everything I have said here is supported by history if you care to read the evolution of mankind and womanking over the last several centuries.
Laura
Arkansas WOMEN
Three men were traveling and happened to meet at a bar in Ohio. One man was from Texas, one from Florida and one from Arkansas. They got acquainted and started talking about their problems with their wives. The guy from Texas began by saying "I told my wife clearly that from now on she would have to do all of the cooking. Well, the first day after I told her, I saw nothing. The second day I saw nothing, but on the third day when I came home from work, the table was set, and a wonderful dinner was prepared with wine and even dessert."
Then the man from Florida spoke up "I sat my wife down and told
her, that from now on she would have to do all the grocery shopping and all of the house cleaning. The first day I saw nothing. The second day I saw nothing. But the third day, when I came home, the whole house was spotless, and in the pantry the shelves were filled with groceries."
The fellow from Arkansas was married to a woman who had grown up in Arkansas all her life. He sat up straight on the bar stool, pushed out his chest and said. "I gave my wife a stern look and told her, that from now on she would have to do the cooking,
shopping and house cleaning. Well, the first day I saw nothing. The second day I saw nothing. But by the third day, I could see a
little bit out of my left eye."
You Gotta Love them Arkansas Women!
Three men were traveling and happened to meet at a bar in Ohio. One man was from Texas, one from Florida and one from Arkansas. They got acquainted and started talking about their problems with their wives. The guy from Texas began by saying "I told my wife clearly that from now on she would have to do all of the cooking. Well, the first day after I told her, I saw nothing. The second day I saw nothing, but on the third day when I came home from work, the table was set, and a wonderful dinner was prepared with wine and even dessert."
Then the man from Florida spoke up "I sat my wife down and told
her, that from now on she would have to do all the grocery shopping and all of the house cleaning. The first day I saw nothing. The second day I saw nothing. But the third day, when I came home, the whole house was spotless, and in the pantry the shelves were filled with groceries."
The fellow from Arkansas was married to a woman who had grown up in Arkansas all her life. He sat up straight on the bar stool, pushed out his chest and said. "I gave my wife a stern look and told her, that from now on she would have to do the cooking,
shopping and house cleaning. Well, the first day I saw nothing. The second day I saw nothing. But by the third day, I could see a
little bit out of my left eye."
You Gotta Love them Arkansas Women!
There were few articles in the billiards digest that talked women competing against men, including the most recent issue.
I get several different types of reactions from players who watch me play. Good, experienced players are respectful and supportive of my game. Players who have no clue overestimate my skills and praise me to the point where it's disgusting, like "look at that little girl she's actually trying to play. good for her." Players who are bitter with their own game will give me no credit whatsoever. I would miss a shot or not draw the cue ball enough and they think it's because I don't have the skills to begin with. I beat a male player in a tournament and he could not talk to me for days.
The pros have had similar experiences. The most recent issue mentioned that Jean Balukas was threatened by a male player that he will punch her in the face if she beats him. Allison Fisher beat a male player and his father came up and told her that he can't play against women. When a woman beats a man in pool, there's always something else other than her ability.
I believe Earl Strickland pointed out that he doesn't like playing against women (I hope I'm quoting this correctly - I don't have the magazine with me). If he runs rack after rack it makes him look bad, like he's doing something bad to his opponent, whereas no one would ever think that if he were playing against a man. I don't think this is comfortable for a serious female player either.
This Sunday I played excellent 9-ball, perhaps the best I've ever done. A day later a fellow player came up to me and asked me where I found him, because he had no chance to beat me, like I was taking advantage of him. It was a friendly game of 9-ball, and I was trying to do my best regardless of who he was (and my opponent knows that). I had great run-outs but to him I won the games because the guy sucked. Again I get no credit even though I did my best.
My point is...women pros don't necessarily want to play male pros because of the frustrating factors that I've mentioned above...I'm not a pro but I think I can relate to some of the things they go through. The level of women players are lower than the men's but the good side of that is we have better players we can play against to improve our games. I think it's just going to take some time to overcome these problems.
I get several different types of reactions from players who watch me play. Good, experienced players are respectful and supportive of my game. Players who have no clue overestimate my skills and praise me to the point where it's disgusting, like "look at that little girl she's actually trying to play. good for her." Players who are bitter with their own game will give me no credit whatsoever. I would miss a shot or not draw the cue ball enough and they think it's because I don't have the skills to begin with. I beat a male player in a tournament and he could not talk to me for days.
The pros have had similar experiences. The most recent issue mentioned that Jean Balukas was threatened by a male player that he will punch her in the face if she beats him. Allison Fisher beat a male player and his father came up and told her that he can't play against women. When a woman beats a man in pool, there's always something else other than her ability.
I believe Earl Strickland pointed out that he doesn't like playing against women (I hope I'm quoting this correctly - I don't have the magazine with me). If he runs rack after rack it makes him look bad, like he's doing something bad to his opponent, whereas no one would ever think that if he were playing against a man. I don't think this is comfortable for a serious female player either.
This Sunday I played excellent 9-ball, perhaps the best I've ever done. A day later a fellow player came up to me and asked me where I found him, because he had no chance to beat me, like I was taking advantage of him. It was a friendly game of 9-ball, and I was trying to do my best regardless of who he was (and my opponent knows that). I had great run-outs but to him I won the games because the guy sucked. Again I get no credit even though I did my best.
My point is...women pros don't necessarily want to play male pros because of the frustrating factors that I've mentioned above...I'm not a pro but I think I can relate to some of the things they go through. The level of women players are lower than the men's but the good side of that is we have better players we can play against to improve our games. I think it's just going to take some time to overcome these problems.
the ladder ...
Being somewhat short most of my life and only 5'7" now, I can identify with most women's struggle for respectibility in sports. I, too, had many obstacles to overcome in sports of all kinds. I overcame those obstacles with determination, intelligence, and discipline. Although small for my age, I was a first string Catcher in baseball, grom grade school through High School, I ran track, 50, 100 dashs, and 440 relay.
I admitted to myself I was too small for football. I was captain of a junior bowling team for 5-6 years, and we went to State, and I had high 30, a 690. I won several ribbons in checkers and Ping Pong in the city. I wrestled 2 years in High School. I made the Tennis team one year the first time I tried out. I played in a National Bridge tournament with my Aunt when I was only 17. I was also a n A honor roll student throughout all of Junior High and part of High School.
Although smaller in size than almost all of my competitors, I was determined to do my best, and I never have liked being 2nd in anything. I found Pool, or it found me, at about 14, and I have been playing ever since. I knew the playing field was leveled in this sport, unlike some sports like football. I had Natural talent for the sport, but I have also worked my butt off to get good, and used my brain endlessly to be the best I can be.
The point is ... Women can overcome their obstacles too in Pool, but it takes determination, brains, and discipline.
It is extremely rare to run across a woman that has all 3 to any extent.
Rarely, do I find a woman that says by her actions and words, "I am a 4 now, but I will be a 5 in 6-9 months". and proves it. I do see that in certain young men that play the game though. A half hearted approach to Pool will yield a half hearted player, someone that wants something for nothing.
Many people, young, men, women, start out on the bottom rung of that
proverbial ladder in many things in life
and you have to put the time and effort in to climb that ladder to gain respectiblity for what you can do. Such is life, you have to pay your dues just like anybody else, if you don't, don't expect all the rewards for doing so. It is that simple. There are thousands of mediocre players that have quit on themselves, and always will be.
The really good player extends themselves, challenges themselves to be better, tries to be smarter, and works on their skills to keep themselves fine tuned, and never gives up.
Being somewhat short most of my life and only 5'7" now, I can identify with most women's struggle for respectibility in sports. I, too, had many obstacles to overcome in sports of all kinds. I overcame those obstacles with determination, intelligence, and discipline. Although small for my age, I was a first string Catcher in baseball, grom grade school through High School, I ran track, 50, 100 dashs, and 440 relay.
I admitted to myself I was too small for football. I was captain of a junior bowling team for 5-6 years, and we went to State, and I had high 30, a 690. I won several ribbons in checkers and Ping Pong in the city. I wrestled 2 years in High School. I made the Tennis team one year the first time I tried out. I played in a National Bridge tournament with my Aunt when I was only 17. I was also a n A honor roll student throughout all of Junior High and part of High School.
Although smaller in size than almost all of my competitors, I was determined to do my best, and I never have liked being 2nd in anything. I found Pool, or it found me, at about 14, and I have been playing ever since. I knew the playing field was leveled in this sport, unlike some sports like football. I had Natural talent for the sport, but I have also worked my butt off to get good, and used my brain endlessly to be the best I can be.
The point is ... Women can overcome their obstacles too in Pool, but it takes determination, brains, and discipline.
It is extremely rare to run across a woman that has all 3 to any extent.
Rarely, do I find a woman that says by her actions and words, "I am a 4 now, but I will be a 5 in 6-9 months". and proves it. I do see that in certain young men that play the game though. A half hearted approach to Pool will yield a half hearted player, someone that wants something for nothing.
Many people, young, men, women, start out on the bottom rung of that
proverbial ladder in many things in life
and you have to put the time and effort in to climb that ladder to gain respectiblity for what you can do. Such is life, you have to pay your dues just like anybody else, if you don't, don't expect all the rewards for doing so. It is that simple. There are thousands of mediocre players that have quit on themselves, and always will be.
The really good player extends themselves, challenges themselves to be better, tries to be smarter, and works on their skills to keep themselves fine tuned, and never gives up.
WOMEN, THEY GOT MY VOTE!
No matter what anyone says, pro-women or pro-men, women have my vote for being a woman that will cook for us, clean for us and make us happy, and love us and those who get beat most of the time, but they don't run and hide or run there mouth about getting beat by a man, and they are good sports. [ those who play, can PLAY]. Think about Belinda competing in an all mens event. It used to be all men. Why not let them play. About time we had something pretty to look at and cheer for. Now we have tournaments with a little more class. Getting women involved will attract more sponsers. It matters not who can beat who, what matters, is are we having fun.
blud
be nice folks, please be nice. Please do not start a war.God Bless one and all.
No matter what anyone says, pro-women or pro-men, women have my vote for being a woman that will cook for us, clean for us and make us happy, and love us and those who get beat most of the time, but they don't run and hide or run there mouth about getting beat by a man, and they are good sports. [ those who play, can PLAY]. Think about Belinda competing in an all mens event. It used to be all men. Why not let them play. About time we had something pretty to look at and cheer for. Now we have tournaments with a little more class. Getting women involved will attract more sponsers. It matters not who can beat who, what matters, is are we having fun.
blud
be nice folks, please be nice. Please do not start a war.God Bless one and all.
fast larry said:
Who are the top 5, and which men's speed are they playing (I'm curious what your opinion is here since you made the statement)? I would strongly disagree (probably in the form of dismissing you as a loon) if you were to say that ANY of the top 5 women play as well as ANY of the top 5 men. If you're saying that the top 5 women now play as well as some solid male shortstops, then ok, I could buy into that (well, not exactly - the top TWO women play as well as some solid male shortstops). But again, I don't see the top speed of the touring women as being any better than it was decades ago when Jean Balukas was dominating. In fact, I don't think Karen or Alison are playing as well as Jean was, so it's hard for me to believe that the women are "closing the gap" or anything like that. I do believe there are MORE women who play at a level that only a few played at 10 or 15 years ago, but I don't see their top speed as any better at all. I don't know if what I'm saying sounds chauvenistic, but that isn't my intent at all. I'm only saying what I believe the truth to be. Bottom line is, Stick ANY professional women in a long set with Efren, Parica, Bustamante, Johnny, Earl, Corey, Rodney, Luat, Andam, Alex P. (and this list isn't complete), and it's going to be a mismatch. I don't really care to make a big deal out of the obvious, but people here keep talking as if there is LITTLE difference between the top women players and the top men players. It isn't really this specific topic that has me posting in this thread, but rather, the fact that I see some people here that are saying things that are just plain incorrect. Like I said in another post, pretending something isn't the way it is doesn't change it.
M
Midnight Rain
Guest
Jimmy what people are saying isn't that incorrect it may not be machinist accurate but it's close enough for government work. You seem to not be giving the ladies the credit they deserve. Many have great talent that DOES equal any of the males in the sport. But they also have an advantage they are just plain better to watch than the men are. Yes the men do have a wonderful stroke to watch but the women have the stroke and the bodies too. Oh yes and to explain something else to you talent does not always equal ability they may not be able to hang with the american champ Earl the Pearl But they can damn sure play better than most of the guys here that are saying that they can't play.
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