Why can't other pros break like Shaw and Shane?

[CreeDo]

Which just shows how little you know about pool. NOBODY, in any game, makes a ball on the break anywhere near those numbers, EVER.

Did you mean "with a wooden rack"?
Because once you have a magic rack, they absolutely can.

World 9 ball -

2014: The breaker made at least one ball (and did not break illegally or foul) 89% of the time (226 of 255), won 61% of the games (155 of 255), and broke and ran 35% of the games (89 of 255).

2015: The breaker made at least one ball (and did not break illegally or foul) 88% of the time (300 of 340), won 62% of the games (210 of 340), and broke and ran 37% of the games (126 of 340).

Something close to these numbers can probably be put up without a template, if it's a really good triangle (delta 13), a competent racker, and a table that doesn't have divots.
50% reflects the average for a full field of top pros, average pros, and donators.

With good gear and top-50 level players, I'd predict at least 75% with a triangle, if breaking from the side rail is allowed.

 

[jasonlaus]

Players like you are the reason so many rules have been changed in 9 & 10 ball. What you just agreed to in what you said was the same thing everyone else has complained about....take away the break and make the game more fair for all of us that can't compete with all of those who've mastered it. Shorten the races to a race you stand a chance in, and let me use a jump cue because I don't kick as well as the best pros do.

My complaint is that there is no Pro level only tournaments whereas ONLY Pros can compete on an equal basis...ALL skills mastered to be able to compete. Lots of tournaments are held that exclude Pros, or handicap them the moment they want to compete, but NO tournaments are ever held that say....if you're NOT good enough to play...don't bother signing up.

Tournament matches need to be extended to at least a single elimination race to 21 with a 3 hour time limit, and a early win knock out reward for posting a 10 game lead on your opponent as to NOT bore the viewers.

If you feel you have a chance to win in a race.to 7 or 9, but know you have NO chance in a race to 21, that's because you DON'T BELONG with the elite players.

Well the problem with this is that there is a HUGE difference in the pros abilities.

Take Shaw, Shane, Dennis,Chang, Ko's and a few others and they absolutely DESTROY all the other "pros" on a very consistant basis - they really have no chance.

So what do we do? Do we limit the field to 10 players or 20? Cause outside of that they're just donating money for the most part.
Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

Well, how does changing the game or rule set "help" the game? This topic infuriates me because it's already happened & never should have.

This is pretty simple, if you like a game, then you play it. If you don't like it, or don't play it well enough, in "ALL" of its facets to where you still like to play it, then don't play. What isn't logical is to try to change it to something you do like or that suits "YOUR" shortcomings & that's what happened in 9 ball. They've tried to take a run & gun gamblers game & turn it into something more refined that it never was nor should be.

This^^^^^^^^
Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

I say make em shoot! Somebody said it already - 1 safe/rack(or none :grin: ) 9 ball is meant to be a runout game, and I don't give a crap how you break either - slam em, soft break, who gives a crap - when its your table do what you want as far as breaking and then runout.
Jason

 

[highkarate]

I'll take the skill as best lock up artist ever, over best breaker any day.

I don't know how you play, but at a high level, you would lose every time to the best breaker. The break is literally everything. And i agree with some of the comments in this thread that some importance should be taken out of the break. Is the break a learned skill, yes, but the outcome of a match is so heavily weighted towards the break, that it dilutes some of the other beautiful aspects of the game.

 

[Ak Guy]

Well.....

In the big scheme of things, we can all pick and choose what matches we watch.

What the pros do is in a world far removed from me in this little Alaskan hick town.

My break is mediocre at best and the competition around here is not to tough so regular old 9 Ball is ok with me.

My favorite pro game to watch is 10 Ball on a 10' Diamond. Lots of position play, some long shots, safeties and most of the luck removed. I like it.

 

[AtLarge]

Did you mean "with a wooden rack"?
Because once you have a magic rack, they absolutely can.

World 9 ball -

2014: The breaker made at least one ball (and did not break illegally or foul) 89% of the time (226 of 255), won 61% of the games (155 of 255), and broke and ran 35% of the games (89 of 255).

2015: The breaker made at least one ball (and did not break illegally or foul) 88% of the time (300 of 340), won 62% of the games (210 of 340), and broke and ran 37% of the games (126 of 340).

Something close to these numbers can probably be put up without a template, if it's a really good triangle (delta 13), a competent racker, and a table that doesn't have divots.
50% reflects the average for a full field of top pros, average pros, and donators.

With good gear and top-50 level players, I'd predict at least 75% with a triangle, if breaking from the side rail is allowed.

Thanks, CreeDo. When I read Scotts post I, too, was going to respond with the World 9-Ball results for 2014 and 2015 of about 90% breaking success. It's important, however, to note the conditions for this, as it's not just the use of a template that leads to such results. It's a template plus racking with the 1-ball on the spot plus allowing the break from anywhere behind the head string (no box).

And it was actually even more extreme. Scott said " NOBODY, in any game, makes a ball on the break anywhere near those numbers, EVER." The 88%/89% breaking success results quoted above are after deducting illegal breaks and fouled breaks. In terms of just making a ball on the break in those two events, the breaker failed to do so on only 17 of those 595 breaks. So the make-a-ball percentage for those two years combined was 97%.

The WPA took one step toward correcting this problem in 2016. They moved the rack up to put the 9-ball on the spot instead of the 1-ball. The other conditions/rules were unchanged. Unfortunately, streaming was quite limited in 2016, so the number of matches I could watch was significantly reduced. But the result was to reduce the successful break rate to 71% and the overall make-a-ball rate to 83% -- both rates still quite high.

[Also, I always like to point out that my stats are for only the streamed matches that I watched, not all of the matches in the event.]

 

[realkingcobra]

Even if the original rules were restored to 9 ball, that still not enough to fix the problems with it. Double elimination formats NEED to be dropped, traded for races to 21 for several reasons. 1) first round loss means a player can save a lot of money by heading back home. 2) No second chance means players have to treat every match as if the lose, they're out.....because they are!
3) Three hour match time limits means all matches start on time and end on time, with a 30 minute break between rounds. 4) Ten game lead over an opponent should be considered to be a mercy win unless the 10 game lead complied because of an10 pack run, in which the win for the player in the lead shall be delayed once the player has missed and relinquished the table to the trailing player to have one chance to make up the 10 game spread, but will revert back to a loss if the attempt fails. 5) No racking aids. 6) No jump cues.

If these rules were used during the US Open 9 ball championship with 256 players on the roster, it would be finished in just 4 days with 20 tables being used...only playing pool 14 hours a day, because 20 players are eliminated every 3 1/2 hours.