Why carbide?

T

thomas1

New member
I have a friend who is looking to get into cue making. I come from a metalworking/gunsmithing background and know very little of cue specific techniques or machinery.

Most of the equipment/vendors that he has shown me, that is "cue" specific, seems to push carbide cutting tools and lots of other things that seem unnecessary and overpriced. Telling people a tool or item is specifically made for pool cues seems to command a premium over the same tool for typical wood or metalworking.

Is there a good reason for using carbide tooling versus HSS? It would seem that the tooling doesn't know what it is cutting and the material being cut doesn't know either. Typically load on the cutter will dictate a need to switch tooling material. Is that need present with wood, even the exotics?

For lathe use I would think HSS bits, which can be sharpened on a conventional grinder would be much more cost effective than going to carbide. Am I missing something blatantly obvious? The abrasive characteristics of the exotic woods, perhaps?

TIA
 
For me, and this may just be me, carbide cuts cleaner and better than hss. Especially when cutting SS joints. Carbide doesn't have to be sharpened as often either. I have a friend that works for the airlines in the machine shop that said the same thing is true for him. I like to use the hss when i am facing where the collars meet the wood as carbide is typically round at the point.
 
You are correct about the abrasive woods. The other point worth mentioning is that there are a lot of people who get into building who's only goal is to build a cue and have the "ready to go" attitude. They do not want to invest the time to develop the root skills of a Machinist and woodworker. The skill of grinding HSS would fall into that root skill category. Carbides can be used maintenance free for much longer than HSS. There are some guys that will buy a new tool every time the old gets dull. Instead of invest into a small bench grinder setup and the time it would take them to learn how to use them. Is this approach wrong? Not necessarily. It all boils down to what you enjoy doing.
 
Hi,

I love carbide and have a green wheel grinder.

I don't have to grind too often but I have been using the same tool for over four years and I have it shaped just perfect for my needs.

Rick
 
I agree with a lot of what you're saying.
HSS will suffice for most applications in this trade.
I use both, HSS & carbide and both have their place.
I can get a nice edge on my HSS tool-bits but I have to sharpen them a lot.
About 5 times as often as my carbide. But again, each has it's place.

When drilling a hole, a HSS drill may tend to 'walk' because it will flex.
Carbide doesn't flex so my holes are straight & true.

I sometimes have to remove a joint pin and on certain pcs I can't use heat to degrade the epoxy.
Most of these pins are stainless steel and HSS tooling just won't hold up.
I can eat these pins up like candy with carbide drills & end mills.

I make a ring-cutter for my fellow tradesmen which is basically a saw mounted on a mandrel
and driven by a trim router that's mounted on the carriage or tool-post.
If that saw were HSS it would flex like crazy and not give a true cut.
My ring-cutter uses a solid carbide saw and there is no flex.
When I ask it to give me a .020" ring, it will be exactly .020". No 2nd operation needed.
We have some pros on this site that are parting rings @ under .010".
BTW, my saw is .020" thick (kerf). Don't even think of trying that with a HSS saw of that thickness.

I do use HSS tool-bits for turning rings down to size once installed on the shaft.
A nice wide radius with good chip relief. HSS in this application is better than carbide.
Some of these ring stacks will have a metal ring in them, sterling, alum, brass or nickel silver (hard stuff).
I've found that carbide will tend to lay the metal ring over and widen it out. Not pretty.
HSS will shave it like a razor. But then, you have to keep it sharp.

HTHs, KJ
 
Is there a functional difference to the thread style/pitch/size for joining 2 piece cues, or is it more a matter of tradition?
 
Partly tradition perhaps but also they have been modernized and new styles added. Like in any endeavor time teaches you what would or could work better. Sometimes the particular builder wants to set himself apart thus interesting joint configurations.

Mario
 
For most cue work I use High Speed steel. One exception is for cuttng stainless steel joints. I use carbide for that. I also use carbide router bits and carbide circular saw blades for tapering and cutting wood. High speed steel just does not hold up for those applications.
 
Mcues said:
Partly tradition perhaps but also they have been modernized and new styles added. Like in any endeavor time teaches you what would or could work better. Sometimes the particular builder wants to set himself apart thus interesting joint configurations.

Mario
Click to expand...

I was more speaking of functional differences. To me if the threads are sufficiently precise, to secure the pieces together in a repeatable fashion, then everything else is personal preference.

For example: Is there any real advantage to a joint pin threaded 3/8-10, as opposed to one that is threaded 3/8-16? Other than the coarser thread being faster to screw/unscrew, of course.
 
thomas1 said:
I have a friend who is looking to get into cue making. I come from a metalworking/gunsmithing background and know very little of cue specific techniques or machinery.

Most of the equipment/vendors that he has shown me, that is "cue" specific, seems to push carbide cutting tools and lots of other things that seem unnecessary and overpriced. Telling people a tool or item is specifically made for pool cues seems to command a premium over the same tool for typical wood or metalworking.

Is there a good reason for using carbide tooling versus HSS? It would seem that the tooling doesn't know what it is cutting and the material being cut doesn't know either. Typically load on the cutter will dictate a need to switch tooling material. Is that need present with wood, even the exotics?

For lathe use I would think HSS bits, which can be sharpened on a conventional grinder would be much more cost effective than going to carbide. Am I missing something blatantly obvious? The abrasive characteristics of the exotic woods, perhaps?

TIA
Click to expand...
Carbide inserts come in different shape and form.
Inserts designed to cut aluminum cut wood just fine .
I use different kinds for different applications.
Ground HSS would be fine too if you know how to grind them.
Ball-end and bottom-cutting end-mills work well for some applications too.
 
thomas1 said:
I was more speaking of functional differences. To me if the threads are sufficiently precise, to secure the pieces together in a repeatable fashion, then everything else is personal preference.

For example: Is there any real advantage to a joint pin threaded 3/8-10, as opposed to one that is threaded 3/8-16? Other than the coarser thread being faster to screw/unscrew, of course.
Click to expand...

Regarding threads, course threads are much stonger in wood joints than fine threads, and while it's true that HSS and even cobalt will certainly cut woods just fine, their wear properties are much lower than even the general purpose grades of carbide such as c8, and much moreso when using coated inserts. Though carbide costs more it's still a matter of simple math and money, no one wants to pay you to regrind tools, so carbide keeps the spindle turning much longer, so in the end is cheaper to use.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top