Why CTE is silly

[Cornerman]

1999. That seems to be the first year I responded to an aiming system thread that involved Hal Houle. We are now 12 years removed, and the arguments have advanced a bit and the characters have changed a bit (I feel sorry for the new people in these debates that haven't added anything new but think their pro or con position is somehow new).

I greatly appreciate Dr. Dave and Pat Johnson. Pat for sticking with it over the years and yes, keeping an open mind to the discussion. Most of you don't see it. I've known Pat for a long time. His posts are excellent. And for Dave who has done exactly what I've asked of him over the years: to give the credit to the system regardless of how it vets out physically. And nobody documents it better than Dr. Dave. And frankly, no physically-minded person has explained things from a mechanical point of view better than Dr. Dave. That includes my friends Mike Page, Bob Jewett and Ron Shepard. I think these three have waited for years for Dr. Dave to join the forums. And he did. Regardless of how much shit I've given Dr. Dave, I also appreciate his being on the forums.

Do I use an aiming system that is a derivision from the original Hal Houle teachings? Absolutely. Has it made me a better player? Yup. Has it worked "under fire." Ask the people on this forum (and not on these forums)that I've beat in real world tournaments. (And no, I suck, but I've won my share of amateur titles). I know that's anectodatal, but at least there are enough people on this forum that have seen my game when I played decently and ball-relationed, shish kebobed, and stick pivoted.

I don't know anything about CTE. So, I should just stop there. But, of the 20 or so systems that Hal Houle discussed with me, even a fool like me was able to take the information and run with it. It's too bad my body won't let me play this game anymore, but I'm glad I had my time. And I"m glad that Hal's thoughts worked for me. If it doesn't work for you (general), that's okay. There's should be no arguments. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you.

Fred <~~~ reminiscing (and drinking early, if you couldn't tell!!!! )

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Fred:
It's too bad my body won't let me play this game anymore

What does this mean, Fred?

pj <- hope it's not literal
chgo

 

[Cornerman]

What does this mean, Fred?

pj <- hope it's not literal
chgo

The anxietiies that have plagued me for my entire life have taken over such that I have problems shooting some very basic shots. I think my love for the game allowed me to overcome them when I was younger but now that I don't play as much nor love to play as much, the yips have dominated my game. It started with an inabilty to execute a break to now the inability to execute a draw shot.

I think the epitome of this was against Royce Brunell at the BCA Nationals a couple years ago where I lost to Royce 5-4. He had three break and runs. I had two. I also miscues on the break twice which led to 2 B&R's. It pains me to think what was supposed to happen (like being able to hit a stationary cueball on the break).

Fred

 

[dr_dave]

I greatly appreciate Dr. Dave and Pat Johnson. Pat for sticking with it over the years and yes, keeping an open mind to the discussion. Most of you don't see it. I've known Pat for a long time. His posts are excellent. And for Dave who has done exactly what I've asked of him over the years: to give the credit to the system regardless of how it vets out physically. And nobody documents it better than Dr. Dave. And frankly, no physically-minded person has explained things from a mechanical point of view better than Dr. Dave. That includes my friends Mike Page, Bob Jewett and Ron Shepard. I think these three have waited for years for Dr. Dave to join the forums. And he did. Regardless of how much shit I've given Dr. Dave, I also appreciate his being on the forums.

Fred,

Thank you so much for your kind post. When I first started participating on BD-CCB, I know you weren't my biggest fan. I realize now that I probably deserved much of what you threw at me. I was naive and there was a lot I didn't know (... there still is, but I think I've come a long way over the years). I thank you and many others on the forums for helping to teach me a lot about pool knowledge (both theoretical and practical), interpersonal communication (mostly, I've learned how it shouldn't be done), and friendship/belonging (to me this is the biggest benefit of AZB ... the feeling that we are all part of something bigger than ourselves).

I also appreciate all of your contributions to the forums over the years, and I hope you continue to love the game and be a part of AZB. I like your no-nonsense, get-to-the-point style.

It's too bad my body won't let me play this game anymore, but I'm glad I had my time.

I saw your reply to PJ. I sincerely hope your situation can change for the better.

Regards,
Dave

 

[mikepage]

[...]And frankly, no physically-minded person has explained things from a mechanical point of view better than Dr. Dave. That includes my friends Mike Page, Bob Jewett and Ron Shepard. I think these three have waited for years for Dr. Dave to join the forums.

It's an engineer thing.... I know it is ...

%*^&^$%$@@*&

-mike <--- can't disagree

 

[duckie]

Its gonna get sillier now with Mr. Long's second article on CTE. Hmmmmm, only three angle ever 15, 30, or 45.

And works for every shot on the table.

So me how CTE works on this shot

CueTable Help

I made the 11 in the corner to the left of it.

 

[cookie man]

Why not enjoy seeing it happen right now? Simply give an example of an angled shot, and what CTE tells you to do/how to aim, to give the precise aiming solution for the shot. Giving just one example won't break the vow of silence (did you even take such a vow?).

Or...as some people might say..."Put up or shut up."

I took no vow of silence and it is not a matter of put up or shut up. You started a thread about cte without a single clue of what it even was. If I posted a shot on here I know certain people will just tear it apart and say it didn't happen as I said. I am doing what everyone in this thread should do, and waiting for Stan to put the video out. After spending a couple of days with Stan I am certain He will explain CTE so everyone can do it. Will everyone do it, I don't think so, but the arguements over it's validity should go away. Would you like your crow broiled or fried?

 

[GetMeThere]

If I posted a shot on here I know certain people will just tear it apart and say it didn't happen as I said.

I'm not talking about what "happens" (I don't care. Why would anyone care?). What's of interest is an objective explanation of exactly how the CTE method arrives at an AIMING SOLUTION for a particular shot.

I've heard only the VAGUEST accounts of how one "aims" using CTE--that is, that's what I hear when I'm not hearing explicit contradictions: CTE is out there and fully explained ("But I'm not going to spoon feed it to you") vs. "People have kept their promises to Hal not to put it on the internet."

You were given the chance...and you declined. You didn't put up....you made the decision to shut up. Ok then.

 

[cookie man]

I'm not talking about what "happens" (I don't care. Why would anyone care?). What's of interest is an objective explanation of exactly how the CTE method arrives at an AIMING SOLUTION for a particular shot.

I've heard only the VAGUEST accounts of how one "aims" using CTE--that is, that's what I hear when I'm not hearing explicit contradictions: CTE is out there and fully explained ("But I'm not going to spoon feed it to you") vs. "People have kept their promises to Hal not to put it on the internet."

You were given the chance...and you declined. You didn't put up....you made the decision to shut up. Ok then.

Spidey put it out there, go to his blog. Wait for the video, best advice available.

 

[dr_dave]

What's of interest is an objective explanation of exactly how the CTE method arrives at an AIMING SOLUTION for a particular shot.

I think I have this here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE​

Also included are links to Spidey's blog and video demos from JB Cases.

IMO, the objective explanation of exactly how the CTE method works is: For a given initial alignment, you must create the "effective pivot length" required to create the cut angle necessary for a given shot. Some people are better than this than others; and with practice, this skill can be developed.

Regards,
Dave

 

[cookie man]

I think I have this here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE​

Also included are links to Spidey's blog and video demos from JB Cases.

IMO, the objective explanation of exactly how the CTE method works is: For a given initial alignment, you must create the "effective pivot length" required to create the cut angle necessary for a given shot. Some people are better than this than others; and with practice, this skill can be developed.

Regards,
Dave

I use CTE and have no clue what my effective pivot length is.

 

[dr_dave]

I think I have this here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE​

Also included are links to Spidey's blog and video demos from JB Cases.

IMO, the objective explanation of exactly how the CTE method works is: For a given initial alignment, you must create the "effective pivot length" required to create the cut angle necessary for a given shot. Some people are better than this than others; and with practice, this skill can be developed.

I use CTE and have no clue what my effective pivot length is.

You don't need to know what it is to be able to do it properly; but if you want to know what it is and why it is important, see the resource page.

Regards,
Dave

 

[JoeyA]

Your worst post ever!

PJ,

Just face it ... you're just not a "believer.":grin-square:
It can be difficult to change the thinking or logic of a true "believer." In fact, it is usually not helpful to even try.

But even if CTE is just a religion, many people find comfort in and benefit from religion, so maybe CTE is a good thing after all. At a minimum, it does provide the same benefits many "aiming systems" provide.

BTW, below is an earlier quote you might think is relevant to John's statement.

from BRKNRUN:

Ok...You know people talk like CTE is some sort of Religion....I did some research and this is what I found out.

One day God called Hal to the top of the mountain and he gave him the first part of his new system of pool aiming laws for his people - The Center To Edge method. (CTE summarized the absolutes of spiritual and moral shot makeing that God intended for his people.)

God continued to give direction to his people through Hal, including the civil and ceremonial laws for controlling their CB. Eventually God called Hal to the mountain for 40 days and 40 nights. During this time he gave him instructions for the tabernacle and the CTE instructions. When God finished speaking to Hal on Mount Ivory Rock, he gave him two tablets of stone inscribed by the very finger of God. They contained the CTE instructions.

Meanwhile, the people of the pool world had become impatient while waiting for Hal to return with the instructions from God. Hal had been gone for so long that the people gave up on him and begged Stan to make them Pro-1 so they could worship. So Stan collected offerings of gold from all the people and made a instruction video in the form of Pro-1. Then they held a festival and bowed down to worship their idol. So quickly they had fallen into the idolatry they were accustomed to in the pool world and disobeyed God's CTE instructions.

When Hal came down from the mountain with the tablets of stone, his anger burned when he saw the people given over to idolatry. He threw down the two tablets, smashing them to pieces at the foot of the mountain.

Now you all know why there is not complete written instructions for CTE.​

Dave,
This is Breaknrun's WORST POST EVER.

 

[GetMeThere]

IMO, the objective explanation of exactly how the CTE method works is: For a given initial alignment, you must create the "effective pivot length" required to create the cut angle necessary for a given shot. Some people are better than this than others; and with practice, this skill can be developed.

I'm well aware that you enjoy yourself IMMENSELY when you write that, but most people don't realize you're also probably slapping your knee and gushing soda pop out of your nose onto your keyboard when you hit "enter"... :wink:

EDIT: You might have to keep watch that you don't slip over to the dark side without even realizing it.

 

[dr_dave]

Dave,
This is one of your WORST POSTS EVER.

Which part: The "believer" joke, the link to benefits, or the quote from BRKNRUN's post?

If you going to accuse me of making one of the "WORST POSTS EVER" I would like you to explain yourself; otherwise, your post is one of the "WORST POSTS EVER."

 

[dr_dave]

IMO, the objective explanation of exactly how the CTE method works is: For a given initial alignment, you must create the "effective pivot length" required to create the cut angle necessary for a given shot. Some people are better than this than others; and with practice, this skill can be developed.

I'm well aware that you enjoy yourself IMMENSELY when you write that, but most people don't realize you're also probably slapping your knee and gushing soda pop out of your nose onto your keyboard when you hit "enter"... :wink:

I do ridicule the CTE posters at times, but I'm actually serious with this post. CTE can be made to work for a wide range of shots if the initial alignment and/or "effective pivot length" are varied properly over the wide range of shots. I'm not saying this is easy or defined by a rigorous procedure, but it can be done ... as has been demonstrated by several videos posted by people over the years.

Honestly, I think there are better ways to aim (e.g., DAM), but different people prefer different things. Regardless, all "aiming systems" have potential benefits for many people.

Regards,
Dave

 

[GetMeThere]

I do ridicule the CTE posters at times, but I'm actually serious with this post. CTE can be made to work for a wide range of shots if the initial alignment and/or "effective pivot length" are varied properly over the wide range of shots.

So... if CTE is Learning To Estimate Over The Years, then shouldn't it be called LTEOTY?

 

[lfigueroa]

Which part: The "believer" joke, the link to benefits, or the quote from BRKNRUN's post?

If you going to accuse me of making one of the "WORST POSTS EVER" I would like you to explain yourself; otherwise, your post is one of the "WORST POSTS EVER."

Joey is probably busy writing up a very positive review of the latest product he got in the mail (for free so let me step in for a moment and be his spokesmodel:

The part where you made fun of Hal.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

I think I have this here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE​

Also included are links to Spidey's blog and video demos from JB Cases.

IMO, the objective explanation of exactly how the CTE method works is: For a given initial alignment, you must create the "effective pivot length" required to create the cut angle necessary for a given shot. Some people are better than this than others; and with practice, this skill can be developed.

Regards,
Dave

You should not include any videos from me regarding CTE. I clearly state that what I am demonstrating is NOT CTE. I clearly state that I am just showing my level of understanding and that I DO NOT KNOW CTE as taught by Hal and Dave and Stan. So the videos of me speaking about CTE that are online should not be used by you as a reference to CTE. When I am certain that I can demonstrate CTE properly and have permission to do so online then I will make a video where I state that I am demonstrating CTE.

My only purpose in this thread is to stand up as a witness for the defense. The accusation is that CTE is BS and Silly.

As a pool player I use Hal's aiming systems with success and find them neither silly nor BS.

No your honor, I cannot and would not if I could describe the mechanics of CTE to the court. I understand that you will hold me in contempt. May I have a pool table in my cell to continue my studies of CTE?

 

[JB Cases]

You really don't understand Ghost Ball. Using GB is to know where to to the base or is I say the contact patch of the CB on the table in order to pocket the OB. Contact point of the OB ball is used only to find the spot on the table for the contact patch of the CB.

There is no trying to see the center the GB or trying to see a GB.

Its like putting.

And GB has a training aid called the Arrow by Babe Cranfield that shows you exactly where to put the CB contact patch to pocket the OB.

Also, you can use the Arrow to learn banks, caroms, off the rail first and with two you can learn combos and so on.

FWIW.

Well don't shoot the messenger. I am merely referring to the hundreds of articles out there that do in fact tell people to imagine a ghost ball and which tell people to aim the center of the cue ball to the center of that "ghost" ball.

GB has hundreds of training aids. From business cards with v-notches cut into them to laser guides there is no shortage of devices to help the player use the "simple" system.